1. #1221
    Herald of the Titans Babylonius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Penne View Post
    Everything I've heard has SEF worse, even with the bracers. Which is depressing as heck. I've seen no sims on that particular issue, though there's an experienced WW (certainly moreso than me!) just a few posts ago claiming SEF is always worse, even with the bracer, and reports that only on Dragons of Nightmare can someone with the bracer/SEF be competitive.
    It still CAN be worse, there's no guarantee that one person is capable enough for Serenity to be better than WDP for them without the legendary, with it requires an even higher skill level.
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  2. #1222
    Quick note for you @Penne without derailing the thread. The 835 WQ items are on AMR - open the filters (look for the filter icon to the right of the gearing strategy/stat weights). On the left side of the filter menu look for the World Quest level, and you can select 835.

    As for the lag, when the site is spinning up another server it can be slow. We're actually working on another auto-scaling method to relieve the lag, sorry about that.
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  3. #1223
    I have a quick question regarding the haste 'cap' of 10% I see mentioned often. As far as I can tell thats primarily related to keeping it sub 10% for Serenity. Other than it being the worst scaling, is it -that- big a deal if you are hovering nearer 11-12% if you only use WDP/SEF?

    I've not had the best luck with drops and I have an abundance of Crit and quite a bit of Haste on my gear that I simply can't drop without losing ~15ilvl or more; stat weights support just sticking with it, but would like some actual opinions beyond just trusting the sim implicitly.

  4. #1224
    So wdp or serenity for karazhan?

  5. #1225
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...metric=bossdps

    At this point I don't even see why a raid leader would bring a WW monk compared to other melees, bottom of the pack for boss damage, only beating ret and arms on total damage (and most of the WW monks I know cheese so freaking much like popping serenity for blob stacking in P1 M Illgynoth). And before you say but look at Ursoc fight (mostly 2 cleave fight) and Dragons:

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=99&boss=1841

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=99&boss=1854

    Considering how Nighthold fights are (from tests in Beta) we'll be even shittier then, and people still whine about serenity/sef. Keep in mind these are 99th percentile so that means the best of the best players. I actually rerolled to Monk, couple weeks back and being left out on Ursoc cause well other classes can do the job better is just saddening, the fact that I'm really liking monks is making me even more angry. And before you say oh yeah I'm topping meters, well your melee is shit, thats the only reason youre topping.
    Last edited by PewPewArrowz; 2016-10-28 at 03:41 AM.

  6. #1226
    Quote Originally Posted by LudiMajk View Post
    At this point I don't even see why a raid leader would bring a WW monk compared to other melees, bottom of the pack for boss damage

    being left out on Ursoc cause well other classes can do the job better is just saddening, the fact that I'm really liking monks is making me even more angry. And before you say oh yeah I'm topping meters, well your melee is shit, thats the only reason youre topping.
    No real reason to bring a ww monk you are right.

    but if you are being left out of a fight because your damage is low... you're either in a top 100 guild, or playing bad. WW pulls good numbers when you hit that top end. Even then, there are top 100 guild with WW in them who do fine.

    A few good people will be ahead of you but playing your class well, you shouldn't be low on ST, like ever. top 5? maybe not if you group is good, but deffinitely not benchable tier. thats just you.

    also saying ""And before you say oh yeah I'm topping meters, well your melee is shit, thats the only reason youre topping."" doesn't invite feedback or discussion. Not gonna bother saying anything else, just got triggered from this post, but anyone reading this understands the message

    also yay me for a rank 3 ursoc parse for ww, 21 dps from rank 2. would've been been 2 if I didn't die
    Last edited by Fireguard; 2016-10-28 at 05:02 AM.
    Being bad is ok, just keep getting better

  7. #1227
    Quote Originally Posted by LudiMajk View Post
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...metric=bossdps

    At this point I don't even see why a raid leader would bring a WW monk compared to other melees, bottom of the pack for boss damage, only beating ret and arms on total damage (and most of the WW monks I know cheese so freaking much like popping serenity for blob stacking in P1 M Illgynoth). And before you say but look at Ursoc fight (mostly 2 cleave fight) and Dragons:

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=99&boss=1841

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=99&boss=1854

    Considering how Nighthold fights are (from tests in Beta) we'll be even shittier then, and people still whine about serenity/sef. Keep in mind these are 99th percentile so that means the best of the best players. I actually rerolled to Monk, couple weeks back and being left out on Ursoc cause well other classes can do the job better is just saddening, the fact that I'm really liking monks is making me even more angry. And before you say oh yeah I'm topping meters, well your melee is shit, thats the only reason youre topping.
    Go play some other FOTM then nobody cares. If you can't be competitive as windwalker that's on you. If you are in a world first guild where the entire raid parses 99% then you wont be #1. Big fucking deal.

  8. #1228
    Quote Originally Posted by LudiMajk View Post
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...metric=bossdps

    At this point I don't even see why a raid leader would bring a WW monk compared to other melees, bottom of the pack for boss damage, only beating ret and arms on total damage (and most of the WW monks I know cheese so freaking much like popping serenity for blob stacking in P1 M Illgynoth). And before you say but look at Ursoc fight (mostly 2 cleave fight) and Dragons:

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=99&boss=1841

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=99&boss=1854

    Considering how Nighthold fights are (from tests in Beta) we'll be even shittier then, and people still whine about serenity/sef. Keep in mind these are 99th percentile so that means the best of the best players. I actually rerolled to Monk, couple weeks back and being left out on Ursoc cause well other classes can do the job better is just saddening, the fact that I'm really liking monks is making me even more angry. And before you say oh yeah I'm topping meters, well your melee is shit, thats the only reason youre topping.
    Because none of the melee that are sitting on top have aoe near the level of demonhunter/WW. Feral, assassination, demo lock have utter garbage aoe, and significant ramp up with little snap burst, and just as shitty target switching.

    Demonhunters also are pretty much forced into old chi torpedo playstyle except without animation cancelling and on steroids, constantly having to fight against endangering themselves on an encounter or messing up a mechanic because their DPS forcefully displaces them.

  9. #1229
    Quote Originally Posted by Fireguard View Post
    No real reason to bring a ww monk you are right.
    25% movement speed aura to everyone in 10 yds?


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  10. #1230
    Deleted
    How does everyone feel about WW scaling in nighthold? I feel like we might be left behind.

    Our 4 piece looks very underwhelming and we scale really badly from weapon damage

  11. #1231
    Quote Originally Posted by LudiMajk View Post
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...metric=bossdps

    At this point I don't even see why a raid leader would bring a WW monk compared to other melees, bottom of the pack for boss damage, only beating ret and arms on total damage (and most of the WW monks I know cheese so freaking much like popping serenity for blob stacking in P1 M Illgynoth). And before you say but look at Ursoc fight (mostly 2 cleave fight) and Dragons:

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=99&boss=1841

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=99&boss=1854

    Considering how Nighthold fights are (from tests in Beta) we'll be even shittier then, and people still whine about serenity/sef. Keep in mind these are 99th percentile so that means the best of the best players. I actually rerolled to Monk, couple weeks back and being left out on Ursoc cause well other classes can do the job better is just saddening, the fact that I'm really liking monks is making me even more angry. And before you say oh yeah I'm topping meters, well your melee is shit, thats the only reason youre topping.
    I'm not sure what looking at only boss damage is supposed to prove. WW is defined by its cleave damage and AoE burst, of course we're not going to be the best at single target dps. Luckily blizzard has pretty much gotten rid of the single target only raid fight (other than a couple every so often), and in EN the hardest bosses were more about add damage than boss damage anyway. Overall we're about average or so, basically identical to a bunch of other melees. I'd wager that between our overall damage and our clearly defined niche that WW is actually one of the most balanced specs right now.

    It's like looking at tank healing only and then wondering why every raid group doesn't just stack holy paladins.

  12. #1232
    Herald of the Titans Babylonius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kikuhawki View Post
    How does everyone feel about WW scaling in nighthold? I feel like we might be left behind.

    Our 4 piece looks very underwhelming and we scale really badly from weapon damage
    WW will scale just fine in nighthold because we scale off Agility more than anythign else, and Agi goes up per ilvl higher than any other stat.
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  13. #1233
    They fixed the SEF tornado kicks bug, has anyone tested the other bugs? kinda hard to test the haste+FoF bug with 4% haste lol.

  14. #1234
    Can't quote all of ya, so I'm gonna reply in a single go, you'll find yourselves in them. Firstly I didn't reroll cause FotM, was playing Hunter before and switched cause it was pretty boring and just not engaging, and my friends guild needed a monk. So with that out of the way, for some reason I only see my HC kills on Warcraft logs so dunno whats up with that, but anyway I wasn't comparing myself I'm still undergeared compared to the rest of my raid group, I was talking about the logs I was seeing. Cleave fights, we suck, ST we suck, mainly I'm kinda pissed cause were just bursty and not much else going on for us. Hence, me being toe to toe in M+ but come M raids, whole lotta different story (unless everyone else makes mistakes and I'm doing everything at a 100 percentile rate).

    The part about Ursoc is where we're supposed to be shining, am I wrong? Ideal fight for us with almost perma cleave. As well as Dragons, I mean ideally shouldn't we be parsing top 3? Again I'm not crying for my own personal dps, I'm still adapting to melee etc, I just look at the logs and its kinda sad were so low and nerfs keep coming in whilst Enhas and Rogues (ok they got nerfed but buffed within a week) are getting positive changes.

    As for me personally I was doing 320-360k on Erethe and Nythendra can't remember Dragons and Illginoth from prior week (was probably lower cause my focus was not to fuck up), but our enhas, dh's are doing over 400 easy (granted they out gear me in every aspect). Some more info is I avoid Serenity like the plague, I just can't wrap around my muscle memory to optimaly use it and I feel gimped for using it like a mongoloid so would rather do a perfect SeF rotation than being gimp with Serenity. Also 25% if you have the ring, which I don't so yeah. Dunno why's yall got tilted so much

  15. #1235
    Quote Originally Posted by LudiMajk View Post
    Can't quote all of ya, so I'm gonna reply in a single go, you'll find yourselves in them. Firstly I didn't reroll cause FotM, was playing Hunter before and switched cause it was pretty boring and just not engaging, and my friends guild needed a monk. So with that out of the way, for some reason I only see my HC kills on Warcraft logs so dunno whats up with that, but anyway I wasn't comparing myself I'm still undergeared compared to the rest of my raid group, I was talking about the logs I was seeing. Cleave fights, we suck, ST we suck, mainly I'm kinda pissed cause were just bursty and not much else going on for us. Hence, me being toe to toe in M+ but come M raids, whole lotta different story (unless everyone else makes mistakes and I'm doing everything at a 100 percentile rate).

    The part about Ursoc is where we're supposed to be shining, am I wrong? Ideal fight for us with almost perma cleave. As well as Dragons, I mean ideally shouldn't we be parsing top 3? Again I'm not crying for my own personal dps, I'm still adapting to melee etc, I just look at the logs and its kinda sad were so low and nerfs keep coming in whilst Enhas and Rogues (ok they got nerfed but buffed within a week) are getting positive changes.

    As for me personally I was doing 320-360k on Erethe and Nythendra can't remember Dragons and Illginoth from prior week (was probably lower cause my focus was not to fuck up), but our enhas, dh's are doing over 400 easy (granted they out gear me in every aspect). Some more info is I avoid Serenity like the plague, I just can't wrap around my muscle memory to optimaly use it and I feel gimped for using it like a mongoloid so would rather do a perfect SeF rotation than being gimp with Serenity. Also 25% if you have the ring, which I don't so yeah. Dunno why's yall got tilted so much
    Those aren't low parses at all; they're literally the definition of "middle of the pack". Considering we have excellent AoE, mobility, target switching, burst, and a decent bit of utility, doing average ST DPS is perfectly acceptable. Not to mention those are 99th percentile parses which aren't relevant to practically everyone who raids. Looking at your situation, why on earth would you care about the 99th percentile when you openly admit to not taking optimal talents and not being able to play the class at that level? People are not "tilted", they're just annoyed by hysterical bullshit that isn't supported by facts. Claiming that we suck in every situation and then linking evidence that shows us parsing higher than half the DPS specs in the game is just nonsense.

    If you want to spur an actual discussion, you should make actual points instead of posting the same whiny obnoxious crap we've all seen a thousand times on here.
    Last edited by Xahz; 2016-10-28 at 05:01 PM.

  16. #1236
    Quote Originally Posted by Xahz View Post
    Those aren't low parses at all; they're literally the definition of "middle of the pack". Considering we have excellent AoE, mobility, target switching, burst, and a decent bit of utility, doing average ST DPS is perfectly acceptable. Not to mention those are 99th percentile parses which aren't relevant to practically everyone who raids. Looking at your situation, why on earth would you care about the 99th percentile when you openly admit to not taking optimal talents and not being able to play the class at that level? People are not "tilted", they're just annoyed by hysterical bullshit that isn't supported by facts. Claiming that we suck in every situation and then linking evidence that shows us parsing higher than half the DPS specs in the game is just nonsense.

    If you want to spur an actual discussion, you should make actual points instead of posting the same whiny obnoxious crap we've all seen a thousand times on here.
    Just cause I'm not one right now, doesn't automatically mean I should stop caring or aim for that , and also my point was were lagging behind melee dps not all dps, I do realize what middle of the pack means. I actually did try to start a discussion, apologies if it was viewed as something else, I'm mostly salty cause of the nerfs WW got compared to untouched or slightly (unoticeable) nerfs others get, arent you guys (Again I'm talking about melee)? I mean honestly if they fixed SeF i'd be be the happy as ever.

  17. #1237
    After reviewing our trinket list, It seems Eye of command and memento are BIS if they are 895 compared to everything else?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by LudiMajk View Post
    Just cause I'm not one right now, doesn't automatically mean I should stop caring or aim for that , and also my point was were lagging behind melee dps not all dps, I do realize what middle of the pack means. I actually did try to start a discussion, apologies if it was viewed as something else, I'm mostly salty cause of the nerfs WW got compared to untouched or slightly (unoticeable) nerfs others get, arent you guys (Again I'm talking about melee)? I mean honestly if they fixed SeF i'd be be the happy as ever.
    Look guy, we are not in a bad or good spot. But we have a fun spec, and we have amazing mobility.

    Raid leaders bring us because we survive, we swap to targets well, and we cleave like a mad man.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Babylonius View Post
    WW will scale just fine in nighthold because we scale off Agility more than anythign else, and Agi goes up per ilvl higher than any other stat.
    Hey babs. I hate to be a stickler. Can you either teach me how to run sims on our trinkets <3 or do a 895 trinket list ?

    I want to shoot for the moon. If i have to spam HoV 200 times for an 895 trinket i will.

  18. #1238
    Wait so looking at the trinket lists I see that Spontaneous Appendages is pretty high on the list of "BiS" for single target on the EN trinkets. I vaguely recall that it was really bad on some of the first trinket lists I saw. Currently I have a 865 Bloodthirsty Instinct, a 865 Arcanocrystal from Withered J'im, and an 875 Spontaenous Appendages. I ran the askmrrobot sim a couple of times to see which combination of trinkets was the best and it came out to be Arcano/BI. The sim said I would lose a ton of DPS if I ran SA. Wowprogress also runs a sim when you look your toon up and it gave me the same answers.

    When I look at the "complete list" I see that crystal and SA are within 1k dps of each other. I'm really confused as to how SA can be a DPS increase over the crystal if my sims say otherwise. Granted I'm a noob at sims and have no idea how to run them without AMR and Wowprogress.

    Can anyone shed some light as to which two trinkets I should be running?

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Acefu/advanced My armory for reference
    Last edited by Ace192; 2016-10-28 at 08:46 PM.

  19. #1239
    Quote Originally Posted by LudiMajk View Post
    Just cause I'm not one right now, doesn't automatically mean I should stop caring or aim for that , and also my point was were lagging behind melee dps not all dps, I do realize what middle of the pack means. I actually did try to start a discussion, apologies if it was viewed as something else, I'm mostly salty cause of the nerfs WW got compared to untouched or slightly (unoticeable) nerfs others get, arent you guys (Again I'm talking about melee)? I mean honestly if they fixed SeF i'd be be the happy as ever.
    You're not aiming for 99th or even 90th if you're not taking Serenity, so I'm not sure what your point is there. And honestly, if you're not part of that group and don't plan on being part of it, then yes you shouldn't care about the numbers at that tier because they're completely irrelevant to you. The logs you linked show us ahead of DKs, Rogues, Druids, Warriors, Paladins, and Survival Hunters depending on the fight; I'm still not seeing how we're lagging behind melee at all, let alone by a significant enough margin to warrant complaint.

    Also, what nerfs? The only changes to WW in 7.1 for PvE were a small buff to Effuse and a "nerf" to CJL which you shouldn't be using anyways.

    I agree they need to fix SEF but I don't know what that has to do with your argument.

  20. #1240
    Quote Originally Posted by isRobin View Post

    Hey babs. I hate to be a stickler. Can you either teach me how to run sims on our trinkets <3 or do a 895 trinket list ?

    I want to shoot for the moon. If i have to spam HoV 200 times for an 895 trinket i will.
    You can just change the name of the original sim to "Trinket1/Trinket2" (Name of the sim)

    Then just add: (under the gear list or right before the stats

    copy=Trinket1/Trinket2 (new trinkets)
    trinket1=trinketName,id=id#,bonus_id=bonus id#
    trinket2=trinketName,id=id#,bonus_id=bonus id#

    copy=Trinket1/Trinket2 (new trinkets)
    trinket1=trinketName,id=id#,bonus_id=bonus id#
    trinket2=trinketName,id=id#,bonus_id=bonus id#

    copy=Trinket1/Trinket2 (new trinkets)
    trinket1=trinketName,id=id#,bonus_id=bonus id#
    trinket2=trinketName,id=id#,bonus_id=bonus id#

    To make a bunch of different trinkets combinations to sim. You can leave trinket1 the same and just replace trinket2, to do that you just don't include the trinket1 line.

    You can also do this for any specific item slot you want.

    I don't know how babs does it, but if you want to sim every combination of all the trinkets @ 895 ilvl then you could do it this way. There is just a RIDICULOUS amount of them you can have.
    Last edited by Shakugan123; 2016-10-28 at 10:12 PM.

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