[WINDWALKER] 7.X Discussion thread

[nomey]

It just doesn't refresh until you do 3 different ones.

[Ace192]

With nerfs of that magnitude it would make the trinket pretty crap.

WW can't get a break.

CoF provided an opportunity for a build to compete with WDP talent and DHC legendary. After this nerf it's going to feel get the DHC or gtfo

Admittedly, CoF and DHC together was kind of stupid since you could get clones to be up forever, but I don't believe the nerf should have been that hard.

[Ryanite]

how's drought of souls for WW with it on the gcd? seems like a really good trinket seeing as the flow of WW has low damage points juggling tp and bk.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1596453682

Has it listed as second and I don't imagine it being on the gcd would push it much further down, unless I'm missing something this would seem to be the new no. 1 trinket after the harsh CoF nerf.

[Juliansfist]

WW has plenty of free GCDs available to fit the draught in; I'd say the change to make it trigger the GCD is more targeted at macro users.

Personally the legendary trinket has also become a lot more attractive now.

Yes I do agree that for SEF with CoF and DHC it would have been stupid being able to keep the buff up permanently and I don't think there is anything Blizzard could really do to balance those two combined unless one is heavily nerfed.

However the nerf to serenity is boggling and that serenity suffers a greater nerf than SEF well that just makes Blizzard's thought processes one of the greatest mysteries of the universe right now. Well actually no it's not a mystery. Clearly Blizzard's intention is to force WDP/chi orbit so that WW use SEF and people can see Blizzard's pretty efforts in getting SEF to become functional.

[TheGoatRiot]

it's better than serenity being the go to all the time. the pendulum swings back and forth, as always.

[Deleted]

it's better than serenity being the go to all the time. the pendulum swings back and forth, as always.

SEF is so boring, doesn't change gameplay one bit.

[Deleted]

Yes I do agree that for SEF with CoF and DHC it would have been stupid being able to keep the buff up permanently

You wouldn't keep it up permanently, CoF reduces recharge time of SEF to roughly 1 min and with DHC it lasts ~20 sec.

[Lord Baz]

should i sacrifice 875 FoF Relic for a 910 Tiger claw relic ?

thats +8 weapon ilvl

and yeah i got it from weekly arena loot

[TheGoatRiot]

at what point should you switch from the ST incidental cleave (especially with eye of command) to full time tagging mobs to get SCK stacks and using the multitarget rotation?

one specific example of this would be botanist, where the fight eventually becomes 1 to 2 to 3 boss targets. should i just be tunneling one guy and using FoF, SotW, and WDP to cover the other two guys? or should i be actively switching between the 3 and weaving in SCK too?

as a side note, if actively weaving, should i drop my eye of command for my ethereal urn, since i will be constantly losing crit stacks? thanks!

[Ryanite]

I really miss when the talent options were mainly PASSIVE - AOE - SINGLE TARGET. It just allows you to design your talents for your role in a fight and then each variation would allow you to cater further to the type of encounter. The current level 90 line is quite nice giving options of burst aoe, burst cd or constant damage boost. The level 100 line however falls apart. We have 1 passive which is largely useless, at least give us a passive that interacts with the base gameplay, Guardian druids are a good example of useful passives. WDP is fun, gives good single target and aoe BUT Serenity is fun and gives good single target and aoe. Fun here is of course subjective but I enjoy both but can anyone else see the problem here. They aren't very different only the play style changes and this creates the problem of a single talent changing the entire playstyle and often one being stronger than the other to achieve the same goal. Now let's say as an example WDP was clearly AOE focused and Serenity clearly single target you'd then need to make the choice of what your group or the boss requires.

I personally prefer this model even though I enjoy both WDP or Serenity I don't think allowing single talents to change the play style so dramatically has worked out at all. Another example would be DH demons blade talent where it changed the play style and is also the only talent to pick.

In short I miss the old model and would prefer if switching talents was free, available at any time other than in combat. Adapting to the boss fight is something we do anyway and have always done. Blizzard tried to fit everyone into a new model that didn't work.

[Deleted]

I really miss when the talent options were mainly PASSIVE - AOE - SINGLE TARGET. It just allows you to design your talents for your role in a fight and then each variation would allow you to cater further to the type of encounter. The current level 90 line is quite nice giving options of burst aoe, burst cd or constant damage boost. The level 100 line however falls apart. We have 1 passive which is largely useless, at least give us a passive that interacts with the base gameplay, Guardian druids are a good example of useful passives. WDP is fun, gives good single target and aoe BUT Serenity is fun and gives good single target and aoe. Fun here is of course subjective but I enjoy both but can anyone else see the problem here. They aren't very different only the play style changes and this creates the problem of a single talent changing the entire playstyle and often one being stronger than the other to achieve the same goal. Now let's say as an example WDP was clearly AOE focused and Serenity clearly single target you'd then need to make the choice of what your group or the boss requires.

I personally prefer this model even though I enjoy both WDP or Serenity I don't think allowing single talents to change the play style so dramatically has worked out at all. Another example would be DH demons blade talent where it changed the play style and is also the only talent to pick.

In short I miss the old model and would prefer if switching talents was free, available at any time other than in combat. Adapting to the boss fight is something we do anyway and have always done. Blizzard tried to fit everyone into a new model that didn't work.

The thing is not everyone likes every gamestyle. For one, I loathe Serenity and like SEF; there are people who have it other way around. Having two viable talents is a good way to give everyone what they like, and the 1% who cares about minmaxing can go cry in the corner.

[Ryanite]

The thing is not everyone likes every gamestyle. For one, I loathe Serenity and like SEF; there are people who have it other way around. Having two viable talents is a good way to give everyone what they like, and the 1% who cares about minmaxing can go cry in the corner.

but the playstyle of a class should be more dictated by the base gameplay of said spec rather than a single talent. In my opinion if the talent changes the game play so much that people loathe it as you put then it's not a good design. Now if people have a problem with the base game play of a class or spec then maybe that spec is no longer for them.

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So in my example I would change chi orbit into a passive that interacts with WW, make WDP the extra aoe option that does okay single target and change serenity to be single target focused. Serenity the way it is atm would need to be completely changed.

[Usagi Senshi]

but the playstyle of a class should be more dictated by the base gameplay of said spec rather than a single talent. In my opinion if the talent changes the game play so much that people loathe it as you put then it's not a good design. Now if people have a problem with the base game play of a class or spec then maybe that spec is no longer for them.

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So in my example I would change chi orbit into a passive that interacts with WW, make WDP the extra aoe option that does okay single target and change serenity to be single target focused. Serenity the way it is atm would need to be completely changed.

I agree and a reason I like FFXIV's classes more (and especially my monk there) because they don't have a talent system in play outside of some light cross class abilities to choose from.

Saying that, I still like WoW's current talent system over the old one they used until Cata but I really wish they would actually balance the DPS rows to make each choice equal in damage throughput but changes the rotation slightly.

Whats the point of the system if one choice is almost always the best?

I will always hate that.

[halfawake]

Can't find it on walkingthewind or anywhere else so I'm not sure if it's been posted but how do you use Draught of Souls with the WW opener?
The combos I'm thinking of are either
tp > rsk > ToD > SEF > FoF > SotW > Draught
tp > rsk > ToD > SEF > Draught > SotW > FoF
tp > rsk > ToD > SEF > FoF > Draught > SotW (outside of ToD)
but with my level of haste something is going to be dropped from the ToD duration so it seems one of the ticks of draught or fof would be better to drop than sotw. Also wondering the same thing for serenity, probably a bigger deal there considering you can save it for serenity each time. I guess nothing drops with those three moves within serenity since its off the gcd so you could draught fof and sotw all within it but I'm not sure if it's worth saving. Since I'm using SEF I'm more wondering about that though if there has been a calculated optimum rotation for gale burst.

[Deleted]

at what point should you switch from the ST incidental cleave (especially with eye of command) to full time tagging mobs to get SCK stacks and using the multitarget rotation?

one specific example of this would be botanist, where the fight eventually becomes 1 to 2 to 3 boss targets. should i just be tunneling one guy and using FoF, SotW, and WDP to cover the other two guys? or should i be actively switching between the 3 and weaving in SCK too?

as a side note, if actively weaving, should i drop my eye of command for my ethereal urn, since i will be constantly losing crit stacks? thanks!

At 2 targets, 2 tagged, SCK is better DPChi than BoK, but less than RSK. As BoK's main use is as a chi-gen tool, I don't think it's worth dropping your Eye stacks on 2 targets.

At 3 targets, 1 tagged, you get SCK again, better then BoK but worse than RSK, so in P3, regardless, SCK becomes a good chi dump, if you've got too much, but not better than RSK.

At 3 targets, 3 tagged, SCK is better than RSK. If you're SEFing, you can use SEF to get 3 stacks in this phase anyway, remember, without dropping Eye stacks - so it really depends on how much you're getting from the eye compared to the urn, but withuot the Eye, you should certainly be tagging all 3 and using SCK in P3.

[Juliansfist]

You should cast SEF before Todd because you're wasting a gcd.

P
Something like SEF, ToD, RSK, sotw, FoF, RSK, draught

[Crusch]

Awww quest for the artifact appearance is bugged and Gul'dan doesn't drop his eye

[Ryanite]

Can't find it on walkingthewind or anywhere else so I'm not sure if it's been posted but how do you use Draught of Souls with the WW opener?
The combos I'm thinking of are either
tp > rsk > ToD > SEF > FoF > SotW > Draught
tp > rsk > ToD > SEF > Draught > SotW > FoF
tp > rsk > ToD > SEF > FoF > Draught > SotW (outside of ToD)
but with my level of haste something is going to be dropped from the ToD duration so it seems one of the ticks of draught or fof would be better to drop than sotw. Also wondering the same thing for serenity, probably a bigger deal there considering you can save it for serenity each time. I guess nothing drops with those three moves within serenity since its off the gcd so you could draught fof and sotw all within it but I'm not sure if it's worth saving. Since I'm using SEF I'm more wondering about that though if there has been a calculated optimum rotation for gale burst.

hm this is a good question lol.

TP -> ToD -> SEF+RSK -> EE+FoF -> SotW -> TP -> WDP with RSK coming off CD soon. Is the EE/WDP opener listed on walking the wind. I guess we just figure out how much damage the trinket does compared to the other abilities.

The normal mode version is 880ilvl at 68k per 0.25 seconds. So i guess we just 68k x4 - 272k x3 - 816k. So it does 816k to a random target over 3 seconds. mmm that's pretty damn strong. FoF's tooltip has 698k to all targets for 3.6 seconds on mine. But then you have to take into account the 1 min 20 sec cd vs 22 sec cd of FoF. Man I think this is over my head lol. Then Sotw is 930k for a 40 second cd then of course I've forgotten about chi costs.

mm this is too hard for me haha. @Babylonius

As an addition to this question how would the WDP/EE opener change with the legendary boots and then how would it change with boots and the drought of souls trinket?

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"Monk
Fixed a bug where Storm, Earth, and Fire clones would stop using abilities after their target died."

not sure if this is in effect yet but lets hope it's fixed the issues. ALTHOUGH I've had 1 clone cast FoF while the other did not so we'll see but at least it's another step to a fully functioning ability.

[Hinalover]

"Monk
Fixed a bug where Storm, Earth, and Fire clones would stop using abilities after their target died."

not sure if this is in effect yet but lets hope it's fixed the issues. ALTHOUGH I've had 1 clone cast FoF while the other did not so we'll see but at least it's another step to a fully functioning ability.

I THINK it's been in since Monday evening. I was attempting Guldan on Heroic and had SEF out while the eyes were out. At one point they were on an eye, the eye died, and they went back onto Guldan and continued to copy spells.

[TyrantWave]

You should cast SEF before Todd because you're wasting a gcd.

P
Something like SEF, ToD, RSK, sotw, FoF, RSK, draught

SEF is off the GCD.
So you want to go TP ToD SEF+RSK, EE+FoF, SotW, WDP, Draught. Maybe swap WDP and Draught if you won't fit it in the ToD window. (In which case it becomes Draught, TP, RSK, WDP)