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  1. #121
    Holy does feel...awkward with CoH (and Binding) just from having developed the muscle memory to be able to use those abilities on demand, and I don't necessarily enjoy taking previously-baseline abilities and turning them into talents...but, well, the game changes, I suppose.

  2. #122
    Deleted
    So, are you guys playing without CoH and chose Apotheosis instead?

  3. #123
    Deleted
    I think it is very misleading when people start posting logs of fights, where :

    1) They abused their beta gear as much as possible
    2) Their fellow healers do not have the same gear
    3) They are going with less healers than what will be expected on the same encounter on live
    4) Their DPS were either too slow or too fast killing the boss

    All of the above are irrelevant logs, as these situations will not be replicated on live raiding environment.

    Please be smart and do not make assumptions on your class from these.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos View Post
    So, are you guys playing without CoH and chose Apotheosis instead?
    Yeah, that's what I've been doing. I find that for the most part, Renew Spam + Binding Heal is enough for general raid damage, and PoH / Sanctify is enough for larger raid damage.

    Really, at this point CoH is the same as PoH, just with a larger range and slightly more mana efficient.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos View Post
    So, are you guys playing without CoH and chose Apotheosis instead?
    Yup, and it's good and fun to play with. Just still getting used to finding the proper timings for it currently. CoH is useful for 5mans, PvP maybe. Can't personally say I would choose it in raiding.

    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    Yeah, that's what I've been doing. I find that for the most part, Renew Spam + Binding Heal is enough for general raid damage, and PoH / Sanctify is enough for larger raid damage.

    Really, at this point CoH is the same as PoH, just with a larger range and slightly more mana efficient.

    I would advise to start getting away from the renew spam as that doesn't really work well for us anymore, and definitely won't in Legion. Binding heal though is a very inefficient heal to rely on. BUT we're all still experimenting and if that works for you then go for it. Just doesn't jive for me.
    Holy Priest Enthusiast and all around healing nutcase.

  6. #126
    I've found Apotheosis to be fantastic when timed properly. I've been able to basically solo heal the Feast by going Divine Hymn, Ring, Apotheosis, PoH + PW: Sanctify spam with PoM on CD. It's absolutely wonderful to be a throughput powerhouse for a solid minute then go OoM xD

    Granted come Emerald Nightmare it'll be much different.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by salmonman78 View Post
    I would advise to start getting away from the renew spam as that doesn't really work well for us anymore, and definitely won't in Legion.
    Really? I'm finding that Renew is often my top heal on every fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by salmonman78 View Post
    Binding heal though is a very inefficient heal to rely on.
    No it's...not? It's much more mana efficient than Flash Heal, and about equal with Heal, for efficiency.

    As per my tooltips:

    Binding Heal: ~24k on 3 targets, for 4,364 mana, HPM of 16.49
    Flash Heal: 37.5k on 1 target, for 4,044 mana, HPM of 9.29
    Heal: 37.5k on 1 target, for 2,284 mana, HPM of 16.45

    Binding Heal seems very efficient to me.

    Even if it overheals on you and only heals 2 targets, its HPM is still 10.87, which is still more efficient than Flash Heal.

  8. #128
    How are you getting 9.29 HPM on a spell that you can cast ~3 of in 2 heals?

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    Really? I'm finding that Renew is often my top heal on every fight.



    No it's...not? It's much more mana efficient than Flash Heal, and about equal with Heal, for efficiency.

    As per my tooltips:

    Binding Heal: ~24k on 3 targets, for 4,364 mana, HPM of 16.49
    Flash Heal: 37.5k on 1 target, for 4,044 mana, HPM of 9.29
    Heal: 37.5k on 1 target, for 2,284 mana, HPM of 16.45

    Binding Heal seems very efficient to me.

    Even if it overheals on you and only heals 2 targets, its HPM is still 10.87, which is still more efficient than Flash Heal.
    I'm glad there are people like you doing your duty to keep holy in the dumpster tier on logs.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by worcester View Post
    I'm glad there are people like you doing your duty to keep holy in the dumpster tier on logs.
    And I'm glad there are people like you who take a videogame way too seriously. I was #1 or #2 on healing for every fight, neck-and-neck with a resto druid, fyi.

    And besides, we all know that logs of random pugs in pre-patch balance in heavily nerfed content are going to be the defining logs for the entire spec, right?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Djriff View Post
    How are you getting 9.29 HPM on a spell that you can cast ~3 of in 2 heals?
    I've never seen anyone use the term "heals per minute", let alone abbreviate it. I've always known HPM to be "healing per mana", as in calculating how much healing you're getting, for the mana spent on that spell.

    The guy up there was claiming that Binding Heal is "very inefficient", and I showed that no, Binding Heal has the exact same mana efficiency as Heal. And even if it overheals on yourself and only heals 2 targets, it's still putting out more healing per mana than Flash Heal. So no, it is not "very inefficient", it's one of our most efficient non-AoE spells. Especially considering that you can use it to refresh Renews on multiple targets, saving even more mana.
    Last edited by anon5123; 2016-07-27 at 06:51 PM.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by worcester View Post
    I'm glad there are people like you doing your duty to keep holy in the dumpster tier on logs.
    Let's not get too salty yeah?
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    I've never seen anyone use the term "heals per minute", let alone abbreviate it. I've always known HPM to be "healing per mana", as in calculating how much healing you're getting, for the mana spent on that spell.

    The guy up there was claiming that Binding Heal is "very inefficient", and I showed that no, Binding Heal has the exact same mana efficiency as Heal. And even if it overheals on yourself and only heals 2 targets, it's still putting out more healing per mana than Flash Heal. So no, it is not "very inefficient", it's one of our most efficient non-AoE spells. Especially considering that you can use it to refresh Renews on multiple targets, saving even more mana.
    I've never seen it be Heals per Minute either, but you never know, just wanted to make sure.
    Binding heal refreshes renews on targets you're not directly healing? That's new.

  12. #132
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Djriff View Post
    Binding heal refreshes renews on targets you're not directly healing? That's new.
    It did this in WoD a long time ago.

    That's the entire basis for the single target chakra renew / binding heal play style.


    Then again, maybe you meant that it didn't do this in Legion before...

  13. #133
    I never saw BH refresh renew on the targets that it AoE healed, the target I was healing directly? Sure.

  14. #134
    Yeah, Binding Heal has always refreshed Renew on any target it heals, because it counts as a single-target heal. It was pretty high HPS as Holy to roll lots of Renews and then spam BH to keep them refreshed, as the glyph made it heal 3 targets total. (like it does now, baseline)

    I believe that's what the healing priest of the world first M Imperator kill did.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    Yeah, Binding Heal has always refreshed Renew on any target it heals, because it counts as a single-target heal. It was pretty high HPS as Holy to roll lots of Renews and then spam BH to keep them refreshed, as the glyph made it heal 3 targets total. (like it does now, baseline)

    I believe that's what the healing priest of the world first M Imperator kill did.
    ...I think I knew that and just never actually comprehended that...wow.

  16. #136
    As much as I loved glyphed binding in yellow chakra with steroid 9 second renew, it's not 2014 and that playstyle is dead.

    I was going to make a snarky comment, but decided against it and rather give you some pointers.

    1. Don't use anecdotal evidence ("I was #1 / I beat a druid") as part of your argument unless absolutely necessary. It makes it weaker.
    2. You are missing the opportunity cost of taking Binding Heal as your talent in your cost calculations. (Surge or Piety) It makes a big difference.
    3. Comparing abilities is fine, but make reasonable assumptions - you are understating how much BH overheals and ignoring natural pickups like Trail of Light for FH builds, not to mention not a single artifact trait helps BH while at least 2 are beneficial to FH. Comparing in a vacuum is not helpful.

    Finally, (this is my personal opinion) Binding heals mana efficiency is not the major factor to consider when taking it. It fills a very niche hole in the priests toolkit and should really be taken only for those use cases. Because if we are talking about efficiency in a vacuum, nothing even comes close to PoH, but obviously you see the problem with that argument.

    Also, you can try to see from my point of view when you are trying to argue about mana efficiency and then say you are using renew as a main filler in its current state. Contradictory to say the least.

  17. #137
    The problem is, while it may be efficient enough, does that outweigh the efficiency of surge that you give up to take it? The value in that talent is that it triggers both serendipity effects. In most cases, especially with artifact traits that flash, heal and poh benefit from that binding does not, I'm going to want to cast one of those spells to reset my holy words over binding heal.

    At the end of the day, I just don't see the value in taking it over the alternative. It just won't do enough healing.

    I just don't see a scenario where I would want that talent over the alternative.
    Last edited by Timmytomma; 2016-07-27 at 10:07 PM.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    I believe that's what the healing priest of the world first M Imperator kill did.
    This may be true, but it wasn't as highly publicised as Garrosh 10M HC where jhazrun (and paragon) impressed us with solo healing the encounter.
    Last edited by worcester; 2016-07-27 at 09:37 PM.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by worcester View Post
    This may be true, but it wasn't as highly publicised as Garrosh 10M HC where jhazrun (and paragon) impressed us with solo healing the encounter.
    I remember being wow'd by that (that actually crossed my mind when I read about the world first M Imp kill).

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by worcester View Post
    As much as I loved glyphed binding in yellow chakra with steroid 9 second renew, it's not 2014 and that playstyle is dead.

    I was going to make a snarky comment, but decided against it and rather give you some pointers.

    1. Don't use anecdotal evidence ("I was #1 / I beat a druid") as part of your argument unless absolutely necessary. It makes it weaker.
    2. You are missing the opportunity cost of taking Binding Heal as your talent in your cost calculations. (Surge or Piety) It makes a big difference.
    3. Comparing abilities is fine, but make reasonable assumptions - you are understating how much BH overheals and ignoring natural pickups like Trail of Light for FH builds, not to mention not a single artifact trait helps BH while at least 2 are beneficial to FH. Comparing in a vacuum is not helpful.

    Finally, (this is my personal opinion) Binding heals mana efficiency is not the major factor to consider when taking it. It fills a very niche hole in the priests toolkit and should really be taken only for those use cases. Because if we are talking about efficiency in a vacuum, nothing even comes close to PoH, but obviously you see the problem with that argument.

    Also, you can try to see from my point of view when you are trying to argue about mana efficiency and then say you are using renew as a main filler in its current state. Contradictory to say the least.
    This guy fucks

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