[MISTWEAVER] 7.X Discussion Thread

[Deleted]

it's highly likely if mana is a concern, you don't cast renewing mist at all over effuse, because the hpm gap between rem and effuse is so large.

With relatively high mastery + amalgam's seventh spine (trinket) this is pretty much my situation at low mana already. Still RM isn't used for the rapid throughput of the hot itself, it just procs too many things at the moment, especially if you wear either of the legendaries i mentioned (or both).

[Supliftz]

With relatively high mastery + amalgam's seventh spine (trinket) this is pretty much my situation at low mana already. Still RM isn't used for the rapid throughput of the hot itself, it just procs too many things at the moment, especially if you wear either of the legendaries i mentioned (or both).

both legendaries aren't good compared to prydaz and velens

[Rife]

It seems like the guy working on this set bonus is just taking pot-shots at making it work.

There isn't any purpose for the bonuses to fulfill or any gap in the MW toolkit they're trying to address or any niche they're trying to bolster. They're literally just throwing ideas against a wall to see what sticks and aren't thinking twice about how those bonuses might affect the balance of the rest of the spec.

I don't think Blizzard even realize how much more Mastery already scales Effuse more than any other stat. Adding a bonus that promotes the stacking of Mastery is going to do nothing but force MW into 1-button Effuse spam bot between EF CD's. On one hand they've added a CD to EF to force MW away from mindlessly spamming 1 ability and on the other hand are introducing a set bonus that is going to do the exact opposite and force MW into mindlessly spamming Effuse.

How the fuck did Blizzard take MoP/WoD MW and turn into this mess? Jesus Christ. At the end of WoD I was supportive of Blizzards intent to overhaul MW for Legion and fix a few of the crutches holding the spec up in HFC. Now I take it all back. I'd prefer HFC/WoD MW to the shitshow of a spec we have now.

[Buildapanda]

It seems like the guy working on this set bonus is just taking pot-shots at making it work.

There isn't any purpose for the bonuses to fulfill or any gap in the MW toolkit they're trying to address or any niche they're trying to bolster. They're literally just throwing ideas against a wall to see what sticks and aren't thinking twice about how those bonuses might affect the balance of the rest of the spec.

I don't think Blizzard even realize how much more Mastery already scales Effuse more than any other stat. Adding a bonus that promotes the stacking of Mastery is going to do nothing but force MW into 1-button Effuse spam bot between EF CD's. On one hand they've added a CD to EF to force MW away from mindlessly spamming 1 ability and on the other hand are introducing a set bonus that is going to do the exact opposite and force MW into mindlessly spamming Effuse.

How the fuck did Blizzard take MoP/WoD MW and turn into this mess? Jesus Christ. At the end of WoD I was supportive of Blizzards intent to overhaul MW for Legion and fix a few of the crutches holding the spec up in HFC. Now I take it all back. I'd prefer HFC/WoD MW to the shitshow of a spec we have now.

Now you guys agree with me. mana tea wasn't so bad, was it suplift wasn't so smart was he, he ruined mistweaver

[Deleted]

suplift [...] ruined mistweaver

Is this a meme I should be aware of? Just asking because I heard it on the final boss MW show and now see it repeated here.

[Supliftz]

It seems like the guy working on this set bonus is just taking pot-shots at making it work.

There isn't any purpose for the bonuses to fulfill or any gap in the MW toolkit they're trying to address or any niche they're trying to bolster. They're literally just throwing ideas against a wall to see what sticks and aren't thinking twice about how those bonuses might affect the balance of the rest of the spec.

I don't think Blizzard even realize how much more Mastery already scales Effuse more than any other stat. Adding a bonus that promotes the stacking of Mastery is going to do nothing but force MW into 1-button Effuse spam bot between EF CD's. On one hand they've added a CD to EF to force MW away from mindlessly spamming 1 ability and on the other hand are introducing a set bonus that is going to do the exact opposite and force MW into mindlessly spamming Effuse.

How the fuck did Blizzard take MoP/WoD MW and turn into this mess? Jesus Christ. At the end of WoD I was supportive of Blizzards intent to overhaul MW for Legion and fix a few of the crutches holding the spec up in HFC. Now I take it all back. I'd prefer HFC/WoD MW to the shitshow of a spec we have now.

Well with current 2pc, there is honestly zero reason to press any spell other than effuse/sg/rjw/ef. You might as well take rem/enm off your bars and only hit vivify with maybe mana tea and tft.

IF/When 4pc gets buffed you will hit rem on cd again, but still completely ignore enm and vivify outside of mana tea/tft. The only real possible out of this current situation is Haste is now a much more competitive stat, at the cost of mastery being further devalued. Chain Casting Effuse more doesn't counteract the nerf to the effective value of mastery for Effuse, because you're adding 320% sp to effuse (effectively doubling the spell co-efficient of the spell).

Well also will probably live in a world where 6 or 7/7 ef and 6 or 7/7 Revival will be accessed at the same time, which further devalues mastery. The Netherlight Crucible will potentially add more non-mastery scaling HPS increases. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see Gust of Mist fall beyond the value that Gift of The Serpent had in HFC. Back then, Gift of the Serpent was 5 times worse than Multistrike, and i'm fairly sure Mastery is ~3-4x worse than crit currently. Will be very interesting to see if Mistweaver got a worse mastery after being reworked.

I don't really know how to improve this situation. This is the problem when problematic spells like Effuse become good. Tbh we're almost at this point on live, where renewing mist is close to being objectively bad to press compared to hitting ef/rjw more, and effuse is the least bad spammable option you can do outside of fistweaving for mana, and pressing rjw/ef.

I guess the improvement since Mistweaver is already lacking slightly in hps compared to the top healers, is to quite literally double the value of mastery next build. That would potentially fix problems such as hps compared to other healers, and making mastery less bad to gear for. But i'm not sure if Mistweavers really want to chain cast effuse over and over.

[Dakiri]

i'm fairly sure Mastery is ~3-4x worse than crit currently.

Just to go in a slightly different direction - is this true for anyone else? Using garg's spreadsheet, I get the following values:

Intellect: 1
Crit: 1.12
Vers: 1.11
Haste: 0.77
Mastery: 0.70

I heal heroic, so I know I cast a lot more effuses than someone in mythic would. However, the jump from 1.6x as good to 3-4x seems like a fairly large one. Do other, better MW see values like what Supliftz is showing?

[Deleted]

Your numbers look rigth. Mastery is weak but still higher than half cc.
There is a good reason behind the absence of mastery buff with last patch and why they remove the "base on mastery" for previous t21. They want to keep the balance of the spec built with 7.2.5 changes. When they realise that the last t21 still destroy the gameplay they will change it. I hope they won't spent too much time trying to tune it.
I don't understand why they do not add a chance of mastery applied on all target of vivify for 2p and a chance for a triple mastery with essence font for 4p. They like rng so much and want to improve mastery so it looks to be the easiest way.

[Deleted]

both legendaries aren't good compared to prydaz and velens

In most situations but still, cant expect everyone to have every legendary. My point was that without them RM already has a lot weight behind it while some people have even more.

[Rekkal]

Just to go in a slightly different direction - is this true for anyone else? Using garg's spreadsheet, I get the following values:

Intellect: 1
Crit: 1.12
Vers: 1.11
Haste: 0.77
Mastery: 0.70

I heal heroic, so I know I cast a lot more effuses than someone in mythic would. However, the jump from 1.6x as good to 3-4x seems like a fairly large one. Do other, better MW see values like what Supliftz is showing?

Please note that Gargs spreadsheet is only as good as the player and in your case with that high Mastery I would say you are not using Rjw and EF as well as others. While Gargs sheet shows your current stat weights there is going to be things that you have to improve on and you should see your stat-weights change to what sups is talking about. One heroic is also a pretty poor analysis because of the small sample size and the many contributing factors to hps.

[Supliftz]

Just to go in a slightly different direction - is this true for anyone else? Using garg's spreadsheet, I get the following values:

Intellect: 1
Crit: 1.12
Vers: 1.11
Haste: 0.77
Mastery: 0.70

I heal heroic, so I know I cast a lot more effuses than someone in mythic would. However, the jump from 1.6x as good to 3-4x seems like a fairly large one. Do other, better MW see values like what Supliftz is showing?

i was going off what raek's mastery value from sisters was on finalboss sorry.

[Montegomery]

It seems like the guy working on this set bonus is just taking pot-shots at making it work.

There isn't any purpose for the bonuses to fulfill or any gap in the MW toolkit they're trying to address or any niche they're trying to bolster. They're literally just throwing ideas against a wall to see what sticks and aren't thinking twice about how those bonuses might affect the balance of the rest of the spec.

I don't think Blizzard even realize how much more Mastery already scales Effuse more than any other stat. Adding a bonus that promotes the stacking of Mastery is going to do nothing but force MW into 1-button Effuse spam bot between EF CD's. On one hand they've added a CD to EF to force MW away from mindlessly spamming 1 ability and on the other hand are introducing a set bonus that is going to do the exact opposite and force MW into mindlessly spamming Effuse.

How the fuck did Blizzard take MoP/WoD MW and turn into this mess? Jesus Christ. At the end of WoD I was supportive of Blizzards intent to overhaul MW for Legion and fix a few of the crutches holding the spec up in HFC. Now I take it all back. I'd prefer HFC/WoD MW to the shitshow of a spec we have now.

I know you're talking design, but things are just as confusing from a mathematical angle.

320% SP over 8 seconds is a lot of healing, so the 2pc is mathematically fine.

50% chance of 50% SP healing to each target affected by the 2pc makes no mathematical sense. Per target that's 1/6th what the 2pc does, and it only does it 50% of the time. No matter how many targets you have, the 2pc is always going to be doing 6 times the healing (if the 4pc even heals).

Even ignoring relative strengths, a 50% chance of an extra 300% SP in healing every 8 seconds is incredibly weak. Getting less than an Effuse for all that setup and uncertainty is practically an insult.

It really does feel like the devs are just taking pot shots, because the problems (both mechanical and mathematical) are obvious. Unless the tooltip description of the 4pc is simply wrong, it's not worth bothering to pick it up.

[Rife]

It seems like someone higher up at Blizzard has decided that they want the MW bonus to be RNG, tied to ReM and interact with the 2pce.

Then the specifics of the bonuses have been left to someone else who has no fucking clue what's going on and who's development process boils down to just trying random shit for a while until the clock on the development window runs out then calls it a day.

Something as simple as the 2pce always being 6 times stronger than the 4pce shows that the guy working on this is either a literal retard or has spent less than 5 minutes working on the bonuses and is instead spending his time on the development of other specs that have a legitimate playerbase.

[taek]

There is a disparity between the utility different specs bring. The team would like to address this by shoring up the utility of some specs.

MW better be #1 on this list.

[cqwrteur]

MW better be #1 on this list.

impossible. buff mw = lose profit

[Deleted]

MW better be #1 on this list.

I feel like stampeding roar is the most wanted/least available utility at the moment. Celerity could be replaced with a knockoff. What would be cool would be if chi torpedo gave a buff to you that makes others move faster towards you for a small period. There's also couple of shaman specific mechanics but i have hard time seeing them being passed to other classes.

[cqwrteur]

I feel like stampeding roar is the most wanted/least available utility at the moment. Celerity could be replaced with a knockoff. What would be cool would be if chi torpedo gave a buff to you that makes others move faster towards you for a small period. There's also couple of shaman specific mechanics but i have hard time seeing them being passed to other classes.

when a spec is failed, there will always be bullshit ranting about how to change its mechanism.

[Deleted]

when a spec is failed, there will always be bullshit ranting about how to change its mechanism.

How exactly are you allowed to keep writing after multiple bans is beyond me.

[thebdc]

How exactly are you allowed to keep writing after multiple bans is beyond me.

They will never do that, because permbanning @cqwrteur = lose profit.

[Deleted]

They will never do that, because permbanning @cqwrteur = lose profit.

If that is true.. could it be?

If buff mw = lose profit
and permbanning @cqwrteur = lose profit.
wouldn't that mean that permabanning cqwrteur = buff mw

The fate of all mistweavers depends on this. Sorry im tired.