[MISTWEAVER] 7.X Discussion Thread

[Rife]

My opinion ? The toolkit is irrelevant. It won't stop you doing your raid with your favorite healer. That's exactly where it matters the most when you're playing WoW. It's to have fun, not to cry about a slight silly advantage the others classes have. Some of the players are way too nitpicky when it comes to healing with their class when most of them probably aren't even in the top 10 guilds let alone top 100.

The only way you can think toolkits are irrelevant is because the other healers in your raid are doing all the jobs in a raid healing team that you can't do on your MW which leaves you to press pretty buttons for the sake of "fun". MW is literally the perfect spec for you because no one expects you to do anything meaningful.

The bottom line is encounters have healing requirements such as heavy tank healing, strong spot healing, good movement healing or raid saving cooldowns etc. MW doesn't bring any of those things to a healing lineup. Instead of people facing this fact we get mongoloids who press EF as people are dying or are critically low and think they're doing some good work getting that 20k EF hot ticking on the target missing 4m health. Then they go to world of logs to look at their overall HPS which comes mostly from EF/RJW padding and pat themselves on the back for sick heals without realizing that the rest of their healing team is carrying the fuck out of them.

But yea I guess you can keep pretending MW's are good and ignore the fact that most of MW healing is piddly bullshit like EF/RJW. Meanwhile hpals,rdruids,discs, hpriests and rshams can press a button to pump 1000%+ sp healing into critical targets or press another button to literally save a raid.

[Raiz]

The bottom line is encounters have healing requirements such as heavy tank healing, strong spot healing, good movement healing or raid saving cooldowns etc. MW doesn't bring any of those things to a healing lineup.

They do. Just slightly worse. It doesn't stop you from progressing. Beside, it's good that every class has different toolkits otherwise there would be no point in making 5 differents healing classes.

The thing is I feel ppl are overestimating the toolkits of the others classes. It's just another excuse to justify their MW need a buff. It's been like this since forever. It's getting kind of annoying.

[Supliftz]

People certainly aren't overestimating the power of the top 3 healers. They are really just that good, and mistweaver is terrible when you compare their power level to them.

That said, we also live in a world where the top 3 healers cover so much, so realistically all you need out of a 4th healer is someone who can do mechanics, and do good healing on the move. This is something mistweaver excels at, especially with their new 4pc.

[Alectra]

They do. Just slightly worse. It doesn't stop you from progressing. Beside, it's good that every class has different toolkits otherwise there would be no point in making 5 differents healing classes.

Oh the irony
As you just admitted MW is worse at anything and therefore lacks a distinctive strength. So if it's toolkit can't bring anything different to the table there is litterally no point for it to exist by your own words...

And i really think it's fascinating how you think that MWs are crying for buffs when the only thing i noticed for years is MWs deepthroating the word UTILITY or searching for their long lost wonderous "NICHE". And both are something completely different than just simple HPS "buffs", because i dont care if someone else does the same/more/less hps than me>holy shock safes lifes, swiftmend safes lifes, ank totem/SLT safe lifes but farting some sprinkle healing into the melee camp won't.

[keqe]

i think it's questionable to say the only thing that matters for healing is the ability to burst heal, when we just came out of a raid tier where the ability to do mechanics mattered the most

exorsus didn't run 3 druids on FA for no reason.

It is possible they also used them to solo tank the boss. FA doesn't go taunt immune and desolate hits longer than melee range. The druids could just taunt all the desolates safely from out of melee in bear form. They might have done this back when the DPS requirement was high for extra DPS player.

Not that druids are bad for healing in that fight though.

Wowprogress takes info based on armory but as far as I remember it didn't make sense for any of the characters in use to off spec as tank in there.

[Caprix]

I'm sure i saved a shit ton of players while learning fights with my mighty transcendence !

More seriously what's wrong with revival? Not a spirit link totem ok but good old 20M insta heal+5-8M hots over 6s??

[Rife]

People certainly aren't overestimating the power of the top 3 healers. They are really just that good, and mistweaver is terrible when you compare their power level to them.

That said, we also live in a world where the top 3 healers cover so much, so realistically all you need out of a 4th healer is someone who can do mechanics, and do good healing on the move. This is something mistweaver excels at, especially with their new 4pc.

People certainly aren't overestimating the power of MW movement healing. Needing to stand still to spread 2pce buffs to then get 1 heal every 9 seconds on those buffs or 2 every 30 seconds with TFT plus being able to get 20k ticks rolling with EF really is that good.

TBH I only heal M+ but even in that environment I know that if someone eats a bunch of damage and I'm moving for a mechanic either that person dies or TFT is up and I pray that gusts crits. No other healer I run M+ on feels as horrible for movement healing as MW does. For example downdraft on Dresseron is an exercise in intimately learning the shortcomings of MW's "toolkit".

[Caprix]

For example downdraft on Dresseron is an exercise in intimately learning the shortcomings of MW's "toolkit".

Not sure if serious?

[Rife]

Not sure if serious?

In higher keys on Tyrannical it's all about hoping the DPS use personals or find a way to stay alive because hitting EF and TFT + Env x 2 doesn't quite cut it, especially when you get half a dozen downdrafts before the boss dies. Also if the group isn't topped at the end of downdraft the roar is going to kill people. Same goes for Shade of Xavius or plenty of other examples of situations in M+ that require heavy movement with high HPS and there are no other healers to carry you while you run waiting for ReM to come off cooldown.

[Caprix]

In higher keys on Tyrannical it's all about hoping the DPS use personals or find a way to stay alive because hitting EF and TFT + Env x 2 doesn't quite cut it, especially when you get half a dozen downdrafts before the boss dies. Also if the group isn't topped at the end of downdraft the roar is going to kill people. Same goes for Shade of Xavius or plenty of other examples of situations in M+ that require heavy movement with high HPS and there are no other healers to carry you while you run waiting for ReM to come off cooldown.

Well there are situations like that that sucks as mw in mm+ but i don't count downdraft into them. between torpedo/rolls, transcendence or simply staying under the boss we can almost freely cast here.

[Supliftz]

People certainly aren't overestimating the power of MW movement healing. Needing to stand still to spread 2pce buffs to then get 1 heal every 9 seconds on those buffs or 2 every 30 seconds with TFT plus being able to get 20k ticks rolling with EF really is that good.

TBH I only heal M+ but even in that environment I know that if someone eats a bunch of damage and I'm moving for a mechanic either that person dies or TFT is up and I pray that gusts crits. No other healer I run M+ on feels as horrible for movement healing as MW does. For example downdraft on Dresseron is an exercise in intimately learning the shortcomings of MW's "toolkit".

You're sorta right, but I don't think the short comings of mistweavers in terms of healing mobility occurs in raiding. Mostly because bosses generally don't have big push backs + pulsing raid damage.

EF + RJW + Revival are also significantly stronger spells in 20 man content for obvious reasons.

[Montegomery]

The only way you can think toolkits are irrelevant is because the other healers in your raid are doing all the jobs in a raid healing team that you can't do on your MW which leaves you to press pretty buttons for the sake of "fun". MW is literally the perfect spec for you because no one expects you to do anything meaningful.

The bottom line is encounters have healing requirements such as heavy tank healing, strong spot healing, good movement healing or raid saving cooldowns etc. MW doesn't bring any of those things to a healing lineup. Instead of people facing this fact we get mongoloids who press EF as people are dying or are critically low and think they're doing some good work getting that 20k EF hot ticking on the target missing 4m health. Then they go to world of logs to look at their overall HPS which comes mostly from EF/RJW padding and pat themselves on the back for sick heals without realizing that the rest of their healing team is carrying the fuck out of them.

But yea I guess you can keep pretending MW's are good and ignore the fact that most of MW healing is piddly bullshit like EF/RJW. Meanwhile hpals,rdruids,discs, hpriests and rshams can press a button to pump 1000%+ sp healing into critical targets or press another button to literally save a raid.

To be fair MW can do heavy tank healing and spot healing, it just requires gearing like you're doing M+. People don't gear that way for raids because why put all your eggs in that basket when raidwide damage tends to be the bigger, more consistent concern and other healers are equally capable of handling those tasks? The T21 set bonuses compound the problem since they clearly push MW away from anything other than spreading heals around.

Mastery not meaningfully affecting AoE heals is one of the biggest design flaws for MW and the cause of that dichotomy.

[Spotnick]

We don't gear like that because we wouldn't have the mana to sustain it. In Mythic+ you can drink between every pull so mana is not really relevant.

We have some utility, just nothing that is unique really, shamans have their rez totem and they can reincarnate.. druids can brez and can tank if needed, and paladins have immunities.. priests have their cloak to reincarnate atm, disc priests are the only one with absorbs, so that leaves mistweavers with very little flavor when Blizzard decided to remove eminence.

So far, we'll be the pocket mastery buff next xpac, but it would still be useful to at least get our soaking ability back...

I guess our instant CD is what defines us.. yes it's good, but it's very rare that it's going to be better than

[Deleted]

The only way you can think toolkits are irrelevant is because the other healers in your raid are doing all the jobs in a raid healing team that you can't do on your MW which leaves you to press pretty buttons for the sake of "fun". MW is literally the perfect spec for you because no one expects you to do anything meaningful.

The bottom line is encounters have healing requirements such as heavy tank healing, strong spot healing, good movement healing or raid saving cooldowns etc. MW doesn't bring any of those things to a healing lineup. Instead of people facing this fact we get mongoloids who press EF as people are dying or are critically low and think they're doing some good work getting that 20k EF hot ticking on the target missing 4m health. Then they go to world of logs to look at their overall HPS which comes mostly from EF/RJW padding and pat themselves on the back for sick heals without realizing that the rest of their healing team is carrying the fuck out of them.

But yea I guess you can keep pretending MW's are good and ignore the fact that most of MW healing is piddly bullshit like EF/RJW. Meanwhile hpals,rdruids,discs, hpriests and rshams can press a button to pump 1000%+ sp healing into critical targets or press another button to literally save a raid.

Oh jesus I think you just won this thread with that answer. You could not be more right about the state of MW

[Spotnick]

Our tool kit is fine.

Nothing is more fun than hearing "don't heal me" and see Essence Font and Renewing Mist target that person, and trying to land a big heal on a target and have to use a cleave because your big heal is a hot that takes 2 seconds to cast and will overheal because you'll be sniped.

[Montegomery]

I love Enveloping Mist in dungeons. I wish I had a reason to cast it more than once in a blue moon in raids.

[Deleted]

After one week I am a little confuse with our talent. Especially with RJW beeing the talent to go. Sure on fight like Varimathras it shines but on other fight like Gragrammar the crack bird combined with 4P seems OP:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...aling&source=2
This is a 30 size group. Talents were Mana tea, Chi-Ji and Mist Wrap. Legendaries were Velen and Doorway to Nowhere and second trinket was Highfather machination.

Please consider the following not as criticizing the log of a mistweaver who is way more better than me but as thinking about gearing and advanced gameplay.

T21:
The 4P in combination is 10% (4.7% 2P and 5.3% 4P). If I am not mistaken it will be even better with smaller size group as it scales in a similar way than Gust of the mist with group size.
Effuse was casted 28 whereas vivify was casted 57 times. This is a relative high Effuse/Vivify ratio witch explain why the high additional healing from T21.
SG has been casted "only" 11 times. SG is a free 2P proc so its best usage is probably to be casted asap (here with 6 charges in average). SG casted just before ReM is OP as it will proc 4P two times ... for free.
This means that the 4P has even more potential even in mythic raiding.
Noob point of view: the Effuse-SG (with haste/cc gear) pure gameplay was already "viable" in heroic raiding and below. With the addition of the T21 you can tell the holly paladin to switch to dps and look like a roxxor ^o^

Legendaries
According to wowanlayzer on this fight Velen used represent 3.1% and Doorway to Nowhere is 5.6% additional healing.
Doorway to nowhere reaches extremely high value due to the extensive use of Essence Font (31 castes on a 7 minutes fight!). You need to have such a high EF usage to justified using Doorway to nowhere over Chest as it is a very bad in term of stats.
Noob point of view: I cannot sustain such high extensive Essence Font usage so I will keep Prydaz for the safety it brings.

[EVB]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...aling&source=2

3 (THREE, Carl) Wisdoms, 2x Boomkin Innervates, undergeared alts as a healers team.
Sure, It's Doorway of Nowhere's OP-ness.

[Tiphess]

well there's also the fact that chi-ji(the talent) and doorway's chi-jis are put together in logs.

doorway's chi-ji does like 3 or 4% at best

[Rife]

It's ironic how this expansion was supposed to be the expansion where Blizzard made "mana matter" and used mana limitations to force healers into making more efficient spell selections.