[MISTWEAVER] 7.X Discussion Thread

[Deleted]

well there's also the fact that chi-ji(the talent) and doorway's chi-jis are put together in logs.

doorway's chi-ji does like 3 or 4% at best

According to wowanalyzer Doorway is up to 5.6% total healing. The rest (8.25-5.6=2.65%) is Chi-Ji from the talent.

Sure you can't bring over 2mHPS over 7 minutes without infinite mana. What I found interesting here is that T21 bring 10% additional healing without optimization of gameplay. It seems also that Doorway needs lucky proc and almost EF casts on CD to be good.

My point is that RJW is presented as the talent to go whereas it should be a situational talent especially with a T21 that can bring a tons of additional healing in a very mana efficient way (Effuse+SG).

So my question is what legendaries should be considered if you do not used Spirit of the Crane and RJW but Mist wrap and Chi-Ji? I suppose that it still should be Velen and Prydaz (or Petrichor if you can get an additional Revival).
I like to use the chest on Varimathras. I spot heal with effuse and pre-cast SG on tank when debuff goes off (little to ne SG overhealing), it seems very strong here.

I also have some interrogation about mana return trinkets (Darkmoon or Amalgam for example). If you use the additional mana to Effuse and SG it should increase the mp5 weight but to what point exactly?

[Caprix]

Is RJW really presented as the go to talent? With 4p t21 a rough calculation from my logs showed effuse more mana efficient and even non UT vivify is on par with heavy (= opportunity to efficiently cast it on cooldown) RJW use.

Even if not using RJW i still want to use SotC unless there is a particular reason to use mistwrap. If you roughly replace rjw casts by vivifys you still have the same number of gcd to spend on punchs and kicks. If you use effuses yeah the mana return from sotc will take a hit (like 30% less?) but you still need specifics reasons for a buff to envm/channeling on the move to be better than MOAR MANA !

[Spotnick]

You seem to think people have 4pc T21 already. Healers being geared last, vast majority still use T20, so logs and talents do not reflect T21 yet.

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Legendaries
According to wowanlayzer on this fight Velen used represent 3.1% and Doorway to Nowhere is 5.6% additional healing.
Doorway to nowhere reaches extremely high value due to the extensive use of Essence Font (31 castes on a 7 minutes fight!). You need to have such a high EF usage to justified using Doorway to nowhere over Chest as it is a very bad in term of stats.
Noob point of view: I cannot sustain such high extensive Essence Font usage so I will keep Prydaz for the safety it brings.

Since when was the chest even one of the legendaries to use? It's crap.

According to Garg, Doorway to Nowhere + Velens is what you want this tier once you have the Crit/Vers neck.



Personally I got Prydaz only recently and been using DTN for whole last tier and it consistently was 4-6% of my healing. Of course it's RNG and can proc at bad moments, and of course only T21 I rolled was the cloak, but still..

[Rife]

Sure you can't bring over 2mHPS over 7 minutes without infinite mana.

It's just monks who can't. There are multiple logs in top 10 ranks for multiple fights on Heroic and Mythic of Hpals, Hpriests and Rshams doing 1.8m to 2.2m HPS without Wisdom or Innervate. Certainly Rdruids and Discs too.

Amalgams is legit if you're using Effuse to build SG and can SG without overhealing like you're doing on Vari. The problem is that even if you worry about amalgams, effuse with SG, 2pce from effuse gusts and even 4pce with TFT ReM"s and all that spell/target selection you'll still do less healing than just pressing EF on CD and afking the boss.

Blizzard really fucked up MW to the point where RJW and EF are the highest HPS and most efficient heals but also are the most mindless, braindead and retard-proof healing spells. This is the main reason why doorway is BiS; because it's retard-proof, free, mindless healing attached to the strongest healing spell MW have. There is no reason not to use it.

[cqwrteur]

Peak of Serenity Discord should be permanently banned. It is just a bunch of joke and shithole.

Doorway meme. I am laughing how retarded and bad math is this discord?

[Rife]

Peak of Serenity Discord should be permanently banned. It is just a bunch of joke and shithole.

Doorway meme. I am laughing how retarded and bad math is this discord?

Got something else to add with the numbers to back it up?

[cqwrteur]

Got something else to add with the numbers to back it up?

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Also this:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ling&source=17

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I don't know how these retards get their ridiculous results. My guess is that they assume EF will be pressed on CD (which is in reality never that case).
Also doorway has an extremely poor sec-stats on it. (haste+mastery) which makes it even worse. Prydaz is also even better since it saves your GCDs and mana for healing yourself.

[Deleted]

the point being that wearing prydaz is an hp loss compared to wearing no legendary

[cqwrteur]

the point being that wearing prydaz is an hp loss compared to wearing no legendary

why wearing prydaz is an HP loss?

[Spotnick]

Apparently there is more throughput from the crit/vers neck (assuming mythic one) than prydaz and its effect over what you gain from Doorway. I'm skeptic too due to mastery/haste of the cloak, but it's still consistently 5-6% of my healing.

However, Prydaz has always been very solid for progression.

But if you check Varimethras which is a constant damage fight.



vs



Seems pretty similar to me, rest is intellect of cloak vs secondary stats.

[Deleted]

[Peachpies]

That is not correct

[Caprix]

I've read that before and was a bit surprised too. Dirty quick maths:

prydaz 1000 is 2152 crit/haste/mastery + slot (so 2302 crit because i was cheap when enchanting it)
mythic neck 960 is 1930 crit 2292 poly

Let's completely ignore haste and mastery because lazy
the net difference is -372 crit and +2292 poly, or -0.93% crit and +4.8% poly
Assuming about 35% crit and 20% poly that's a (1.3407/1.35)*(1.248/1.2)=1.032 modifier.
Or +3.2% over prydaz crit only stat, which additionnal absorb effects is like about 50k hps? 50/0.032 = 1562k hps is the base healing breakpoint around which antorus mythic neck equals prydaz crit stat+absorb. More hps than that prydaz lose, less hps prydaz wins.

Remember i did not factor in the haste and mastery of prydaz
Quick estimation, that 2152 mastery would roughtly increase my mastery spellpower% from 300% to 370% or +23%, mastery procs averaging about 10% of my hps that's a +2.3% to global healing.
Haste i never bothered to evaluate, but i think it is at least on par with mastery if not better...

So yeah, not correct. Actually it looks like prydaz is about on par with that neck with its stats only?

I may have forgotten something

[Tiphess]

poly = vers for those confused

[Caprix]

Yeah right, was looking at the item stats in the french client

[Supliftz]

why are people looking at the hps value of prydaz on logs and not adjusting for more overhealing on yourself, even though logs are adjusting doorway to nowhere's output for overheal?

[Spotnick]

why are people looking at the hps value of prydaz on logs and not adjusting for more overhealing on yourself, even though logs are adjusting doorway to nowhere's output for overheal?

I tried to explain that on Discord, it was a mistake

[Deleted]

Edit:
Sup makes a good point here
Healing on a non tank spec in heroic Antorus is in the 200 to 300kHPS range while healing from Prydaz on yourself while be around 75kHPS
I suppose that if you need to look at second order effect then items should be consider as equivalent but I may be wrong.
If Prydaz saves you then no question about it. Does it saves mana from you and other healers with less healing from you or does it ends up in more overhealing? Just 10% additional overhealing on yourself induced but Prydaz would make a big difference. The problem is that this indirect overhealing is very difficult to measure.
____________________________________

What is sure is that Prydaz is not as strong as it used to be due to the difference of primary and secondary stat increase with ilvl. Only Velen is king now (if used correctly). At this point the 2nd legendary you equip should be based on its special effect.

You have dispel to do (eg. Imonar and High Command): use Sephyz
You need to press Revival every two minutes (eg Kin'garoth): use Petrichor
You can press EF almost on CD: use Doorway
You need more personal protection: use Prydaz
You are not using RJW talent: you can consider boots
You are abusing T21 with effuse, SG and TFT then you can even consider the chest
You want to have a good ST CD: sorry you are playing the wrong spec ^^

Check you stat values with Garg spreedsheet (or your own logs and wowanalyzer) and adjust it according to your stuff. If you get a nice cloak with leach you probably always needs to keep it.

The most important is to adapt your talent, your gear and yourself to what the group need.

If you cannot or are not willing to do that then follow Garg guide advice for Antorus use RJW, Velen and Doorway and you will be fine.

[Caprix]

I get the point too. Not completely, as any additionnal source of healing WILL cause some increase to other spells/healer overheal. Obviously prydaz been an uncontrolled big absorb it will cause more of this. Just pointing that the overheal caused by doorway can not be totally seen in its own overheal.

I agree it's difficult to measure. I just tried something, as i lately often raid with another mistweaver who does not allways use prydaz (i think he recently looted and used it in raids, but i found an evening were he didn't use it at all).

So i simply compared the overheal% done on him and done on me. So this is the complete overheal for all healers. This was on 9 logs, most of them been farm fights and 1 wipe, so i'd say they are mostly not in favor of prydaz with a lot of overall overheal. Now that i think of it i guess i should have compared dtps too for more accuracy, but hey (i'd say it was about the same...)..

In average i was overhealed 3% more (e.g. 38% overheal versus 35% overheal). The differences are on a scale from -3% to +7% depending on fight.

So i guess i would have to remove an average 10k hps to prydaz contribution to the global raid healing?

[EVB]

So....
MW now has a very strong HPS spot (still useless as utility guy), you can destroy your healer colleagues on spread bosses like shivarras, kin'garoth, do strong nubers on all other bosses, but...
They made another 3-healer boss, and it's a last one. Without high overgearing it will be impossible without restoshammy-disc-pala.
Why?
1) Disc - does high damage(the main thing) when easily covering those rare&strong bursts of AoE damage on raid. There are zero constant damage things that can be covered by dru/MW except of rare dots from Sargeras Gaze circles. (If raid catches too much of these, it's a wipe, not a HPS fest) You can do a bit more damage... while doing 0 hps. Why bring a MW when you can bring DD? And disc brings Barrier. -damage raid CDs is MUCH MUCH more valuable on this fight than retarded revival.
2) Rshammy - "Brez that is not Brez" adds you one Soulbomb without wasting tank cooldowns and damage on P2, and adds you 1 free res on P3 (you only have 25 until tree starts withering, including the initial 20-man res, so only 5 free resses from Eonar for ~6 min). Rshammy has strongest healing burst combo in game (CB+HTide+Guidance), needed on that fight to heal through first Sentence of Sargeras Breaking on P3 with no Titanforged buff, and another -damage raid CD, which is godmode for everyone entered (except the tanks, lol), too - SLT. Finally, Rsham in wolfform can cover that role of a ghost orb collector near the enrage for horde raids(no nightelves), when Titanforging stacked to the amounts that allow 2 healers to heal.
3) Hpala - obviously. Tanks recieve MASSIVE amounts of damage since the very beginning of the fight. Noone can counter this. HPal can abuse one of the SoulBombs on P2, bubbling it out of raid without bothering the tanks, and... Aura Mastery, another -damage Raid CD.

Enjoy your freaking bench, MW. For the whole legion. You will be fine. In heroics. Mythic? Bah, maybe after 2-3 rounds of nerfs.

And Don't tell me please about that mw's good spot. It's a complete bullshit and excuses. Almost every raider (except those in commercial guilds) plays, wastes their time for that AP farming, mythic+, etc etc etc for that single nerdscream moment when that freaking lastboss is dying before you. Not Imonar, not Aggramar, not Varimathras with you on the 1st plase in Skada. The Last One. The Argus. Not a single MW in strong guilds will achieve that before nerfs of heavy overgearing (like 965+).

inb4 blahblah MW's on other bosses (yea, all killed in mythic in 1 day after opening), blah blah Limit has MW, blah blah top 10 guilds has MW blah blah noone care about top progression