[BREWMASTER] 7.X Discussion Thread

[Dakiri]

Judging by the bonuses they've put on all the rings so far, there are only a handful of talents that could realistically be on the ring anyway. (Some conjecture ahead)

L100 talents are out because they're too impactful. L15 talents are out because they're too shit. They presumably want the ring to be performance-enhancing, which leaves out L30 and L60 since they're mobility/CC tiers. They also seem to only be putting passive effects on the rings, so any active talents are also out.

Lastly, I don't think they would put purely offensive talents on any of the rings for tanks, which leaves out SD.

Which leaves LB, GotM, and MV. Imo, the best realistic outcome for us would have been if the ring had LB on it. However, I suspect that if they did pick a talent from the L45 tier it would've been GotM.

Incidentally, with the new tier coming in ToS, GotM will be even less useful since we'll have a much more reliable way of proccing orbs. You're right, there just aren't many good options for the ring, which in turn means the ring is likely not going to be great when compared to other legendaries.

To put it this way: if you use the ring, you get both Mystic Vitality and Dampen Harm (up to 50% DR for 10 sec every 120 sec). If you wear the helm, you can get Mystic Vitality and a better Zen Meditation (60% DR for 8 sec every 150 seconds). You get to DPS while using the ring and your CD has slightly better uptime, while the helm has slightly better DR. They end up doing very similar things, and the helm is great on a few select fights and very lackluster everywhere else. The ring will likely be around that level in terms of value.

[stross01]

Incidentally, with the new tier coming in ToS, GotM will be even less useful since we'll have a much more reliable way of proccing orbs. You're right, there just aren't many good options for the ring, which in turn means the ring is likely not going to be great when compared to other legendaries.

To put it this way: if you use the ring, you get both Mystic Vitality and Dampen Harm (up to 50% DR for 10 sec every 120 sec). If you wear the helm, you can get Mystic Vitality and a better Zen Meditation (60% DR for 8 sec every 150 seconds). You get to DPS while using the ring and your CD has slightly better uptime, while the helm has slightly better DR. They end up doing very similar things, and the helm is great on a few select fights and very lackluster everywhere else. The ring will likely be around that level in terms of value.

I'm hoping that the changes are enough to allow the use of Gai Plin's and Lost Abbey in a raid setting with Elusive Dancer.

Been my secret dream since the alpha

[porubezhnik]

Was lucky enough too roll Lionshead Lapel Clasp, so maybe someone already thought about: can it be suitable to stack greater orb trait in case of our new T20?

[Tech614]

Was lucky enough too roll Lionshead Lapel Clasp, so maybe someone already thought about: can it be suitable to stack greater orb trait in case of our new T20?

15% RNG of a double heal still doesn't seem like a good trait to stack to me even with the set bonus.

I might consider otherwise if Facepalm stacking wasn't such a ridiculous dps increase, and the defensive traits are completely meh in comparison.

[gramz]

Was lucky enough too roll Lionshead Lapel Clasp, so maybe someone already thought about: can it be suitable to stack greater orb trait in case of our new T20?

im curious if theres any interaction between greater orbs and our new set bonus? can it spawn greater orbs? can/should greater orbs clear 10% instead of 5?

itd be cool but knowing blizzard i doubt theres any interaction

[ReD-EyeD]

Purify nerf 50%->40% is so damn random. With nerf to stagger it is already much harder to purify and now this.

[Mokuna]

That last change just shows how the changes on monks lately have been a circlejerk of uselessness

-All the changes to blackout strikes cd to end up with a 3 seconds blackout strike cd that is nowhere near an improvement(you'll use an unsatisfying filler instead of waiting 0.3-0.5 seconds)
-Replacing a completly useless trait (Staggering around) with an useful one (+4% purified damage), and then nerfing purifying brew from 50 to 40%, resulting in a nerf so minimal it's almost neutral

The question is: what is the point of these changes? They accomplish nothing, they change nothing, it's not game designing, it's pissing in a river

The brewmaster changes page on the official forum is at least 60 pages long, and the only relevant changes the class got is -5% stagger,a bit of passive mitigation through dodge and armor buffs, nerfing bof relics and the isb duration cap(which by the way is one of the worst change ever since it kills the defensive gameplay of the class that relies on pooling)

In the end this changes nothing: the spec can still cheese everything, the spec still requires a lot of healing/is still bad when not healed, the rotation is more awkward than the supposedly awkward one we got before, so yeah what's the point of feedback, of "discussions" to end up with that ?

[dcc626]

That last change just shows how the changes on monks lately have been a circlejerk of uselessness

-All the changes to blackout strikes cd to end up with a 3 seconds blackout strike cd that is nowhere near an improvement(you'll use an unsatisfying filler instead of waiting 0.3-0.5 seconds)
-Replacing a completly useless trait (Staggering around) with an useful one (+8% purified damage), and then nerfing purifying brew from 50 to 40%, resulting in a nerf so minimal it's literally neutral

The question is: what is the point of these changes? They accomplish nothing, they change nothing, it's not game designing, it's pissing in a river

The brewmaster changes page on the official forum is at least 60 pages long, and the only relevant changes the class got is -5% stagger,a bit of passive mitigation through dodge and armor buffs, nerfing bof relics and the isb duration cap(which by the way is one of the worst change ever since it kills the defensive gameplay of the class that relies on pooling)

In the end this changes nothing: the spec can still cheese everything, the spec still requires a lot of healing/is still bad when not healed, the rotation is more awkward than the supposedly awkward one we got before, so yeah what's the point of feedback, of "discussions" to end up with that ?

i agree with everything you said. i guess i am glad at least, that they didnt just nerf us into oblivion. the amount of "the sky is falling" in the brewmaster discord is kinda funny though.

[ReD-EyeD]

To me purify nerf seems like "We want to make Elusive Dance to be more attractive to players... Oh, lets nerf purify!"

[Tech614]

Purify was likely nerfed because right now you rarely purify except at exceptional stagger levels in the mean time of pooling 3 mins on ISB. On the PTR with the capped duration of ISB people are likely purifying a lot more which makes them believe the numbers where too strong.

Also this is basically a direct nerf to lego belt, which already wasn't strong outside of cheese situations? They might want to buff it in that case.

[dcc626]

Purify was likely nerfed because right now you rarely purify except at exceptional stagger levels in the mean time of pooling 3 mins on ISB. On the PTR with the capped duration of ISB people are likely purifying a lot more which makes them believe the numbers where too strong.

Also this is basically a direct nerf to lego belt, which already wasn't strong outside of cheese situations? They might want to buff it in that case.

considering the boots which have made it through a pass with no buffs already, i have no faith in the belt getting any love.

[stross01]

The buffs to brewmaster, defensively, definitely merit getting 'nerfed' in other places. I'm sure it's a giant, unnecessarily complex web of interactions, but with the Concordance buff, the armor buff, the elusive brawler buff, all that shit, we had to be lowered somewhere.

i agree with everything you said. i guess i am glad at least, that they didnt just nerf us into oblivion. the amount of "the sky is falling" in the brewmaster discord is kinda funny though.

You can generally just ignore that entire discord population.

- - - Updated - - -

Purify was likely nerfed because right now you rarely purify except at exceptional stagger levels in the mean time of pooling 3 mins on ISB. On the PTR with the capped duration of ISB people are likely purifying a lot more which makes them believe the numbers where too strong.

Also this is basically a direct nerf to lego belt, which already wasn't strong outside of cheese situations? They might want to buff it in that case.

I think people are forgetting that there will be no more game-changing legendaries in 7.2.5. They're all pretty close to negligible outside of their ilvl unless you enter an extreme situation.

[Slatch]

Yeah the few times I've tried to have intelligent discussion I was met with know-it-alls who have more grasp than your average player, but not enough to actually know what they think. So they inevitably gave retarded answers to more nuanced mechanics, and the discussions were pointless. Just felt like a High School in there, which made me sad.

[porubezhnik]

I think people are forgetting that there will be no more game-changing legendaries in 7.2.5. They're all pretty close to negligible outside of their ilvl unless you enter an extreme situation.

And this is exact thing that legendaries shoud be Legendary belt gives ~50mil of raw healing on Guldan P3, but almost useless at Krosus - it's ok.

[stross01]

And this is exact thing that legendaries shoud be Legendary belt gives ~50mil of raw healing on Guldan P3, but almost useless at Krosus - it's ok.

What the hell are you doing on Gul'dan that has you at that much healing with that belt?

I'm not even staggering enough damage with High Tolerance and 2p to heal for that much on any of our kills, even progression.

[keqe]

On the PTR with the capped duration of ISB people are likely purifying a lot more which makes them believe the numbers where too strong.

It's funny how the change forces you to play better instead of wasting dozens of brew on IsB and then they notice purifying is actually too strong.

[porubezhnik]

What the hell are you doing on Gul'dan that has you at that much healing with that belt?

I'm not even staggering enough damage with High Tolerance and 2p to heal for that much on any of our kills, even progression.

Tanking Illidan solo, for sure Taking all Soulsevers (11 in total), and use belt for removing heal absorb after.

50mil means all healing - including absorbed. It spreaded like 29mil actual and 21mil absorbed

[keqe]

Keg Smash now can have charges.

This heavily implies the new legendary for brewmaster (most likely a cloak/gloves) will give keg smash a charge or two and probably do something else, more damage or less CD perhaps.

It doesn't seem that useful since you want to use it on CD anyways.

[Toroq]

I thought the same thing when I saw that Keg Smash can now have charges.

Then someone pointed out to me that the previous PH legendary shoulders are now redesigned for BrM but didn't get caught in the changes posted on MMOC.

Stormstout's Last Gasp

Keg Smash has 1 additional charge and has 25% increased radius.

Might be useful for some kind of burst AoE in dungeons if you're able to semi-consistently store up 2 charges to nuke with. As for raiding I personally don't see myself ever using them over some combination of Chest/Bracers/Ring/Belt.

If it was +damage instead of +radius maybe I'd consider it occasionally.

Hell, if they were +damage and +radius as a sort of BrM version of Luffa Wrappings, I'd probably consider them for a lot of fights where you don't necessarily need defensive legendaries.

As it is though, giving an extra charge on an ability you already want to cast on CD is pretty lackluster. Although with our current design of having a GCD locked at 1 sec and the CD of KS scaling with haste, it would allow you to do your rotation without worrying about slightly delaying KS, it just doesn't seem worth dedicating one of your 2 legendaries to it.

[Felixphaeton]

The Keg Smash charge is a little more useful than what people are giving credit for.

With a 3 second BoS cd (disgusting), our rotation is KS -> BoS -> TP -> BoF -> BoS -> TP -> 1 sec gap -> KS, but BoS is off cooldown as well.

With the extra charge, you can use it during the gap and use BoS on cooldown, or if you gain the charge at the same time as BoS, you can hold it and use BoS without losing anything.

I don't think it's useful enough to offset the other changes we're getting though.