[BREWMASTER] 7.X Discussion Thread

[Deleted]

33% haste is not for the BoK on every second clobal, since the new haste affected CD is calculated as BaseCD/(1+haste) so 33.3% woul put BoB at 3/1.33= 2.25.
you need 50% haste to make BoK fill every other global but then the rotation would start to waste energy.

33% haste is the breakpoint to get KS from 8 sec to 8/1.33 = 6 seconds, so that KS aligns perfectly with BoK: BoK->KS->Filler->BoK->Filler->Filler-> repeat
which makes the BoC rotation way simpler. you should probably use this kind of rotation at 20%+ haste, which will still leave a small gap every 6 seconds but that is fine.

If you want to go for "haste till ocmfortable" and you play BoC then you should try this rotation but stop stacking haste once there is no gap left between the BoK and the KS

[Deleted]

33% haste is not for the BoK on every second clobal, since the new haste affected CD is calculated as BaseCD/(1+haste) so 33.3% woul put BoB at 3/1.33= 2.25.
you need 50% haste to make BoK fill every other global but then the rotation would start to waste energy.

33% haste is the breakpoint to get KS from 8 sec to 8/1.33 = 6 seconds, so that KS aligns perfectly with BoK: BoK->KS->Filler->BoK->Filler->Filler-> repeat
which makes the BoC rotation way simpler. you should probably use this kind of rotation at 20%+ haste, which will still leave a small gap every 6 seconds but that is fine.

If you want to go for "haste till ocmfortable" and you play BoC then you should try this rotation but stop stacking haste once there is no gap left between the BoK and the KS

Im gearing my main spec (MW) so i got 30% crit and only 11% haste. With said stats, do you would recommend me use BoC or HT? Im running BoC + LB to get more frequently brews, maybe i should switch to HT + BoB?

[Deleted]

since the new haste affected CD is calculated as BaseCD/(1+haste)

This "new" formula is here since cataclysm, but okay, it's "new". :P

[porubezhnik]

If anyone would like to verify the code I created a codepen:

I set the number of iterations to 1000 not to hang the browser, but you can modify it to whatever you want through be prepared to wait if you go nuts.

JFYI: we can get theoretical estimated dodge chance without iterations: it's just a 1 / E where E = estimated value for one dodge cycle

Just a macro to get your actual estimated dodge chance:

/run local b,m,k=(GetDodgeChance()+GetParryChance())/100,GetMastery()/100,1;local e,t,d=b,b,b;while d<1 do d=d+m;if(d>1)then d=1 end;local c=d*(1-t);k=k+1;e=e+k*c;t=t+c;end print(string.format("B: %4.2f%% M: %4.2f%% EDC: %4.2f%%",b*100,m*100,100/e))

[Deleted]

Don't forget that our parry does not work (it's less then 4,5) and also our dodge is reduced by 4,5 against bossmobs.

[nuclayer]

Im gearing my main spec (MW) so i got 30% crit and only 11% haste. With said stats, do you would recommend me use BoC or HT? Im running BoC + LB to get more frequently brews, maybe i should switch to HT + BoB?

BoB is wasted unless you are trying to keep up ISB 100% - which is pointless.I am not sure why people think they need to always have it up if damage is light. Brewmasters have orbs, a talented insta self heal, and a stacking dodge mechanic for those times. Light brewing nets you almost as much at BoB but gives you access to more charges without having to blow a cooldown everytime its up, to gain a small advantage.

I prefer HT or ED any day over BoC. Black out combo is more dynamic, but less effective unless played perfectly. If you are really low on haste, I would take HT but otherwise I prefer ED. Being able to purify off large stagger feels awesome and the damage buff from doing it is not too shabby. I only use BoC if I am running heroic dungeons or lower and/or world questing.

[Xequecal]

Don't forget that our parry does not work (it's less then 4,5) and also our dodge is reduced by 4,5 against bossmobs.

The combat table is one roll, you only get one minus to your total avoidance. I'm pretty sure it's -3% too, not -4.5%.

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BoB is wasted unless you are trying to keep up ISB 100% - which is pointless.I am not sure why people think they need to always have it up if damage is light. Brewmasters have orbs, a talented insta self heal, and a stacking dodge mechanic for those times. Light brewing nets you almost as much at BoB but gives you access to more charges without having to blow a cooldown everytime its up, to gain a small advantage.

No, it doesn't, this is just flat out wrong. BoB is always far more charges than LB even if you don't bother to min/max it at all. Just dump all your charges into ISB then push the button and you'll have more brews available than you ever would with LB.

[Deleted]

I'm pretty sure it's -3% too, not -4.5%.

-1,5% per Level. And no, both values are reduced before the roll.
That means:
A Dodge of 10% and a Parry of 3% result in a Avoid of 5,5% against bosses.

[Deleted]

Is there a large dps advantage taking BoC over HT or ED?

[jearle]

Is there a large dps advantage taking BoC over HT or ED?

This is anecdotal to my own experience tanking in dungeons, but BoC seems to be much higher DPS as it gives you the options of focusing on DPS or survivability. You can use the combo on TP and BoF to pump out more damage when you dont need to worry about survivability. ED's damage increase just didn't seem that great in Mythics as I must not have purifying enough dmg to see results.

[999DaZa]

I have been experimenting with ED recently and it feels very strong, I will admit I get more ambious on my pulls and try pull at least 2 packs at a time so getting to 50% stagger without ISB up is quite easy also having a great druid healer helps a tonne.
I Found ED helped a more on trash packs and did more damage than BoC due to its a flat increase especially with exploding keg. On average was getting a 10% buff/dodge from ED. On Bosses I found BoC did more damage and the delay stagger component amazing for heavy damage phases.
At the moment waiting for mythic + to drop to see which one really suits our comp more.
I will say I was very sceptical about ED at 1st but now that I am understanding how to use it and puts you more in the mind of trying to purify more which isn't a bad thing.

[Xahz]

Brewmasters have orbs, a talented insta self heal, and a stacking dodge mechanic for those times.

Thanks for describing what our skills do! I'm sure a lot of Brewmasters here didn't know we had all those things. And no, LB does not net you "almost as much" as BoB in any situation; LB is terrible and should never be picked outside of some alien world where we have completely absurd levels of haste (80%).

[Hobbs]

33% haste is the breakpoint to get KS from 8 sec to 8/1.33 = 6 seconds, so that KS aligns perfectly with BoK: BoK->KS->Filler->BoK->Filler->Filler-> repeat which makes the BoC rotation way simpler. you should probably use this kind of rotation at 20%+ haste, which will still leave a small gap every 6 seconds but that is fine.

Thanks this was helpful. Have a quick followup question to you or anyone else good with the maths. Is the value of haste significantly reduced with HT compared to BoC? Or does haste still have a considerable lead for both talents? I'm under the impression that it's the best stat for us no matter which 100 talent you choose. Just want to know how big that lead is with respect to each talent.

Also to the ED discussion, perhaps I'm playing poorly with that talent and should change my style a bit. All the times I've tried ED, I've felt significantly squishier than with BoC or HT. Have gotten the same responses from my healers when I try it as well. Seems I just can't get enough brews with ED.

[Deleted]

WEll the level of haste to feel that you have enough brew charges gets more important with HT. And while HT gives you extra haste, it also reduces KS gain from 6s to 4s so overall i would say the value doesn't change that much, maybe a little bit less.

However i have not done a complete stat check for all of them but it seems they are kind of equal, the only thing i can say for sure is that vers>crit

[Deleted]

So im 850 item lvl but ive been unlucky and had tons of crit master gear dropping so ive only got 12% Haste. With this amount of haste would BoC or HT be better in your opinions?

this is me. http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ychan/advanced

If i drop to about 846 item lvl i can get about 25% haste, but ill drop some mastery in the process(5-7%). Do you think its more benifit to keep 850 item lvl for more of our main stat agil? or drop to the 846 item lvl and gain an extra 12-14% haste? cheers.

[sdre]

So im 850 item lvl but ive been unlucky and had tons of crit master gear dropping so ive only got 12% Haste. With this amount of haste would BoC or HT be better in your opinions?

Personally, I found it useful to go HT if I have low haste. It kind "balances" it out. Then again, haste to me is something that i try to maintain at about 20%+

Impression i get is, if you get enough haste, then go BoC to have some chain fun.

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http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...an/Daet/simple

Can we do a critique of our gear and our talents? So far I feel fine, but I like to optimise my stuff abit.

Appreciate any feedback about my toon

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So im 850 item lvl but ive been unlucky and had tons of crit master gear dropping so ive only got 12% Haste. With this amount of haste would BoC or HT be better in your opinions?

this is me. http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ychan/advanced

If i drop to about 846 item lvl i can get about 25% haste, but ill drop some mastery in the process(5-7%). Do you think its more benifit to keep 850 item lvl for more of our main stat agil? or drop to the 846 item lvl and gain an extra 12-14% haste? cheers.

I think it's how you feel tanking in it? Try both sets of gear and see what comes up. I love the current set up of Brew cause it offers such a unqiue flavor of tanking. I tried goign full haste, like 29% haste but dropped to like 837 ilvl. I don't see the benefits of going so much haste but giving up that much ilvl.

My toon has about 23% crit, 22% haste and 23-24% mastery and 9% of versatility. I did mythic Darkheart last night and felt really comfortable.

[Deleted]

Sorry if this has already been answered, but what are the best trinkets for BM Monk right now? thanks in advance

[Deleted]

I'm really confused as the Icy Veins Guides lists the Stat Priority as:

Mastery = Crit

so i was stacking Haste (18% atm) and Crit for more Kegsmashes and Brews and Crit for more Extra Heal chance (+65% more heal).
But in this topic i have read several times that mastery should be stacked.

Is it really that much better than Crit?

[999DaZa]

I'm really confused as the Icy Veins Guides lists the Stat Priority as:

Mastery = Crit

so i was stacking Haste (18% atm) and Crit for more Kegsmashes and Brews and Crit for more Extra Heal chance (+65% more heal).
But in this topic i have read several times that mastery should be stacked.

Is it really that much better than Crit?

I first want to say that Brewmaster is a very complicated class in terms of stat priority and it comes down to how you want to play it.
Mastery is good at certain break points , I would recommend trying to get to '1 in 5 attacks dodged' break point which sits at 23.7% Mastery for me currently at ilv850. Mastery provides a very nice average physical damage reduction due to the nature of the dodge mechanic , a 20% physical DR in this case.
Crit is good for extra heals onto you but it does not provide any DR like mastery does and that is why you see more people leaning towards mastery.

For stat prior I would work off something like this:
More focused DR stats:
Haste(to a point you feel comfortable~20%?)>Mastery(A break point)>Vers>Crit

More Damage:
Haste(33%)>Vers>Crit>Mastery

Crit vs Vers was argued earlier in this thread, I'll post it here so you don't have to go find it:

The thing is, that if you have an infinite healthpool, constant damage intake and no overhealing (theoretical scenario) then 10.5% DR are exactly equal to 11.7% more healing taken. The thing is, if you take a hit for 1000 Damage and you have 10.5% DR, that means you need to get healed for 895 (because 1000 - 1000 * 10.5% = 895).

On the other hand, if you have 11.7% more healing, then you still need to be healed for exactly 895. because 895 * 1.117 = 1000.

1% DR is right about equal to 1% more healing, but the higher you go(5%...10%...50%) the higher the difference gets. Thats why I said Versatility scales way better.
(To the point of 100% DR via versatility, where you do not need to be healed at all, which is unachievable via crit)

And while stacking crit does make it more reliable (not really "reliable" thou ) it also becomes way worse in higher gear levels because like I said, crit scales worse than versatility



Damage wise i am not even that sure crit is that much better. Lets compare 21% versatility rating to 24% crit rating. You have a base crit chance of about 15% + 3% from Gifted student. So the real values to compare are [21% vers + 18% crit] vs [42% crit]

1000 Damage (with vers) become 1000 * 1.21 * 1.18 = 1427,8 Damage
1000 Damage (with crit) become 1000 * 1.42 = 1420 Damage

So even damage wise crit is worse than versatility (given a high value) This should obviously be plotted on a graph because it changes with current crit/vers levels.
On top of that you have to consider, that crit does not affect Special Delivery (Don't know if versatility affects it) and BoK profits even less from crit (since it has 9% more crit built in).

This does seem kinda strange, since crit has the better rating conversion, but the fact that you also have way more base crit negates this completly.

[Deleted]

Snip

Thank you very much for the detailed response. I just oversaw that Crit offers no DR, but a chance for bigger heals, which is bad in a scenario were you are not full health and can get lethal blows or get to a dangerous low health pool because of missing DR.