[BREWMASTER] 7.X Discussion Thread

[Hobbs]

I *think* their point is exactly what they've been saying.

It's very possible that BrM just isn't your style anymore. I'm playing a Bear on the side because I like their style even though I feel they lack the kind of style you want as well. I've never played a Pally or Warrior at max level though and only briefly tried Blood back in BRF. Maybe DH is going to be rewarding? Who knows. I just love the aesthetic of BrM too much to give them up.

Yeah I'm hoping someone can spell out or pinpoint where the spec feels so different (again disregarding any items/bonuses because I don't have them). I don't really have the time anymore to level 2 toons to 110 and get a feel for them there, so this kinda discussion is really helpful for me.

Yeah bear really doesn't fit every bill for me of what I'm looking for, but I played one a decent amount in cata, enjoy the aesthetics, and really really like having a spammable filler in swipe. What I do miss on them is the 1 sec gcd and mobility of my monk. I feel like I should be more interested in DH since their play style has a lot of what old monk used to have, but they just don't appeal to me at all for some reason.

[keqe]

Ironically, your mention of being gcd capped actually deters me from playing it even more. I like being gcd capped. I hate empty gcd's and always having tiger palm to spam if I had nothing else to do was one of the reasons I switched to monk from warrior in the first place.

This makes no sense. GCD capped means you have no empty GCDs and Legion brewmaster with RJW doesn't have any empty GCDs.

And warrior has been GCD locked like brewmaster since Monk has existed in form of Devastate being free filler so that also doesn't really add up.

[stross01]

1. That's just hyperbole. You're only lacking one ability that has no interaction with the rotation. Yeah we're missing some passives through artifact and stuff but the rotation won't change that much. The items you listed mean nothing to me. I don't even know what they do. Just came back within the past month from mop, so whatever bonus is breaking the spec for you is certainly not for me.

2. Thanks for that tip. Forgot about the artifact trait. Regarding the damage, that's not really my point though. As a tank, I want my abilities to do tanky things by giving me defensive value or giving me increased access to my defensive abilities (which you mentioned through dark side of the moon). Definitely an oversight on my part, thanks!

3. You really just straw manned my point. I never said fort brew was the only thing I ever used. You just assumed that and condescended me. I said it's the only explicit defensive cd we have, which feels bad. It's not fun (for me) to only have 1 explicit defensive and then for it to only be up about every other boss in dungeons. I've played BM at not the highest, but still a very high level for years. I'm not new to our rather unorthodox toolkit. Don't worry. I'm expelling all the harm, sweeping my leg around, pausing and purifying stagger. It's not my first rodeo. I feel that if you'd checked my post history or followed the legion beta thread you might have been able to see my point more clearly.

Lastly just as a clarifier, I'm NOT saying that BM sucks, is unviable, and people should reroll for progression. If you thought that was what I was saying then you misread me. They're fine! I AM saying that BM right now feels (obv primarily subjective) like a clunky hunk of crap compared to previous iterations and compared to guardian druid right now. Not sure about other tanks because they're the only 2 I've played since prepatch.

1) Unfortunately for you, and maybe the future of your interaction with the class, none of that is 'hyperbole'.

You aren't spamming ISB every few seconds in Legion. You aren't purifying every few seconds in Legion. You don't take as much damage in Legion. Your abilities have different interactions in Legion.

3) You've got Ironskin Brew, which is better (sometimes worse) than any other short-duration cd in the game. It's available more often than any other. Also, if you've only got Fortifying Brew up for every other boss, you're playing things wrong. It's reduced by Keg Smash and Tiger Palm to be the same CD as it was before.

If you feel that it's clunky, you're probably unfamiliar with priority-based rotations and more familiar with rigid ones/ones that give you no options at all (like druid).

[Hobbs]

1) Unfortunately for you, and maybe the future of your interaction with the class, none of that is 'hyperbole'.

You aren't spamming ISB every few seconds in Legion. You aren't purifying every few seconds in Legion. You don't take as much damage in Legion. Your abilities have different interactions in Legion.

3) You've got Ironskin Brew, which is better (sometimes worse) than any other short-duration cd in the game. It's available more often than any other. Also, if you've only got Fortifying Brew up for every other boss, you're playing things wrong. It's reduced by Keg Smash and Tiger Palm to be the same CD as it was before.

If you feel that it's clunky, you're probably unfamiliar with priority-based rotations and more familiar with rigid ones/ones that give you no options at all (like druid).

1. Perhaps you're right. Just hard for me to see it unless I play it I guess.

3. Yeah it gets reduced and is up more for extended fights like raid bosses but not dungeons where you have down time running between groups and not pressing stuff.

And yeah that's definitely some of it for sure. Before monk most of my tanking was on war and druid. Just sad to see the rotation completely change styles.

And to the guy above the quoted post, yeah I misspoke. Not sure why I said that, mainly switched from war to monk because the 1 sec gcd felt so much faster to me (and they looked freaking awesome). Guess I conflated gcd speed and spamming stuff in my head and that got lost in between my brain and the keyboard.

But to your (again post above the one I quoted) other point about being gcd capped, the guy explicitly said that monk in legion was NOT gcd capped.

[stross01]

But to your (again post above the one I quoted) other point about being gcd capped, the guy explicitly said that monk in legion was NOT gcd capped. So now I'm just confused because people are telling me opposite things about legion monk.

If you're running RJW with a haste/Black Ox Brew build, you're spamming things nonstop and you'll have to start sacrificing things like BoF on CD and BoS on CD to avoid energy capping.

If you're using a mastery or crit build without RJW, you may find yourself waiting a very short time for things.

[Hobbs]

If you're running RJW with a haste/Black Ox Brew build, you're spamming things nonstop and you'll have to start sacrificing things like BoF on CD and BoS on CD to avoid energy capping.

If you're using a mastery or crit build without RJW, you may find yourself waiting a very short time for things.

Thanks for the clarification friend. Missed the guy's detail about RJW in his post.

Oh and just to nitpick. It would actually be fortunate for me if the spec does feel completely different on beta than live. Remember that I'm hoping you're right. I don't like the spec atm. I'm just skeptical haha.

[arcuro]

You aren't spamming ISB every few seconds in Legion. You aren't purifying every few seconds in Legion. You don't take as much damage in Legion. Your abilities have different interactions in Legion.

honestly, how do i use ISB in legion propperly? i just thought spam it to stack uptime and get brew resets via ks and tp is enough?
i want to lern it propperly now and not when legion is live

[keqe]

No ish brewmaster feels clunky right now.

You're gcd capped, and one ability has no use outside of being free damage at the moment.

If you actually played it at 110 on the beta you would know it feels nothing like playing at 100(you may still not like it, but it's drastically different feel of play). That was his point.

But to your (again post above the one I quoted) other point about being gcd capped, the guy explicitly said that monk in legion was NOT gcd capped.

He seemed to say it IS GCD capped.

[Quotey]

whats up with special delivery?

originally i thought it couldn't crit, but just did a fight where it had 37 hits and 1 of them actually crit

also not convinced it has 30% proc chance.

[keqe]

whats up with special delivery?

originally i thought it couldn't crit, but just did a fight where it had 37 hits and 1 of them actually crit

also not convinced it has 30% proc chance.

Someone said it has 3% crit chance only. Artifact abilities used to have similar bug in alpha I think.

[stross01]

honestly, how do i use ISB in legion propperly? i just thought spam it to stack uptime and get brew resets via ks and tp is enough?
i want to lern it propperly now and not when legion is live

The way I've used it throughout the alpha and beta is to use it only when the pulls are massive enough to kill you in 1-2 rounds of attacks (5-packs in high Mythic) or when you're sub 50% health.

If you're stacking a monster Ironskin buff, you're not going to have enough brews left to purify effectively and you'll end up as a huge mana sink. You'll quickly reach a point where your stagger dot becomes so huge that you'll purify and still be in red stagger.

It's closer to a Shield Block intent than a Shuffle intent right now.

- - - Updated - - -

whats up with special delivery?

originally i thought it couldn't crit, but just did a fight where it had 37 hits and 1 of them actually crit

also not convinced it has 30% proc chance.

It's got a bugged low crit chance. It can crit, just super rarely. It's still does a shitton of damage, though, even on single target.

[Hobbs]

He seemed to say it IS GCD capped.

You're looking at the wrong post. I was responding to the post by Ahsakura. I'd quote it as well for you but on phone and pain in the butt.

[keqe]

You're looking at the wrong post. I was responding to the post by Ahsakura. I'd quote it as well for you but on phone and pain in the butt.

You quoted Tech who said about us being GCD locked. Then you mention about GCD lock. How should I be able to know you were talking about Ashakura's post?

If you don't want to be misunderstood you should quote your posts better.

[Hobbs]

You quoted Tech who said about us being GCD locked. Then you mention about GCD lock. How should I be able to know you were talking about Ashakura's post?

If you don't want to be misunderstood you should quote your posts better.

Calm down man. If you'd read my original post you would have noticed I was talking to tech. Then I said "the guy who posted above you." No need to get frustrated, just a simple mistake. Happens with text communication all the time.

[keqe]

Calm down man. If you'd read my original post you would have noticed I was talking to tech. Then I said "the guy who posted above you." No need to get frustrated, just a simple mistake. Happens with text communication all the time.

Just because I point stuff out doesn't mean I am livid.

But..

Again, I'd argue that that's an over exaggeration. The cd's are the same. The resources are the same. I'm sure it does play differently, but it's not going to be unrecognizable. I realize you'll probably just see me as stubborn, and that's fine. But I'm unconvinced. All the core's already on prepatch and what I see on paper just isn't going to change it that much. Ironically, your mention of being gcd capped actually deters me from playing it even more. I like being gcd capped. I hate empty gcd's and always having tiger palm to spam if I had nothing else to do was one of the reasons I switched to monk from warrior in the first place.

Maybe one or some of you could help me understand WHY it's so different on beta. If it's much slower on beta then I guess I'm just s.o.l. and the spec's not for me anymore. :/

Where here you mention "the guy who posted above you"? You quoted Ashakura but that was later than that post.

Sorry if I sound like a detective sniffing but I just find this interesting out of boredom

[Hobbs]

Just because I point stuff out doesn't mean I am livid.

But..



Where here you mention "the guy who posted above you"? You quoted Ashakura but that was later than that post.

Sorry if I sound like a detective sniffing but I just find this interesting out of boredom

Not sure if just trying to get a rise out of me or what, but regardless this is silly, pointless, and off topic. Also noticed you edited the cussing out of your last post. Anyway, I'm done and won't be responding on this anymore.

[keqe]

Not sure if just trying to get a rise out of me or what, but regardless this is silly, pointless, and off topic. Also noticed you edited the cussing out of your last post. Anyway, I'm done and won't be responding on this anymore.

Well, I just made a quick note that what you said in your post made no sense. Then you responded with something that also didn't make any sense. So of course I continued to find that sense, but it seems there is none.

But you are right this is off topic and better not continue.

[fattz]

My dps seems super low compared to 6.x. What am I doing wrong? I keg smash on cooldown, try to tigerpalm, BoF and BOS accordingly. But the dps numbers are very much behind my co-tank who is a paladin. Granted hes about 6 ilvls above me but still the gap was never that wide before.

[999DaZa]

@999DaZa

Under the condition, that you use BlackoutCombo-ISB every 6 seconds, the value of your purifies actually doubles.

Considering that the stagger debuf can only bleed out half of the time but increases all the time due to boss hits the stagger dot will grow to its double size before balancing out. At that point the dot will tick for double the usual value, but only half the time (due to emp-ISB) creating a balance. It does make the purify way more worth it but the damage from stagger also becomes more "bursty" since it ticks half the time for double the value.

With artefact points in Potent Brews (+ISB duration) the Purify dot goes from +100% to + 66% but still worht it. This does however require way more practise than the other two talents.
For example you should also always try to Purify at the end of emp-ISB. This does however collide with the next BoK and you do NOT want to empower PB. Meaning you have to go BoK-ISB-Filler-Filler-PB-BoK and the ISB has to be as arly as possible and the PB as late as possible.

Thanks for this insight, I have decided to try do some number crunching on this formula and play around. I just want to know which is the best software to theory craft on? Also which sites can I use to get the exact formulas for abilities and general stats formulas (eg haste reducing abilities cds).

Also if you used all 3 charges of your ISB and then use keg smash does it reduce all 3 charges cds by 2 seconds or is it only 1 charge?

[keqe]

Also if you used all 3 charges of your ISB and then use keg smash does it reduce all 3 charges cds by 2 seconds or is it only 1 charge?

Just one charge. All charge mechanics work so only 1 charge recharges at a time.