[BREWMASTER] 7.X Discussion Thread

[999DaZa]

the xavius trinket requires (at least it did last week) that both tanks wear the trinket, and at least from debuffs only 1 tank will get the damage reduction. unless you're referring to a different bug.

Talking about a different bug, where stacks refresh the duration.

[Deleted]

I perefer Ursoc (Agi + Hasteprocc) + Xavius at most.
But even the DPS Trinket from Il'gynoth is extremly strong because it pushes you over the 3-Hit-and-then-dodge-cap.

[Ray3andrei]

I don't get why everyone is pushing the Darkmoon trinket so hard over the Dragons of Nightmare trinket or the Ursoc trinket. Yes, the bonus armor is very good, but the agility on it is almost useless, and it's 15 ilvls less than those trinkets.

Item level is so meaningless in trinkets and jewelry right now, the darkmoon trinket is simply better than those two because on average it will reduce more damage throughout the course of the fight, which is Brewmaster's weakness, the other two are meant to stop burst damage, which brewmaster has no issue with whatsoever.

[Deleted]

What's the best way to use ISB in mythic and mythic +? I normally pop 1 going into packs or at the start of a boss. I use combo talent so I norm TP Keg to lower cd Andy pop another isb. stagger gets around 50% and if I have 2 charges up I will clear it.

But I read about some pop all 3 before going into combat.

With the recent buff is High tol a good tal for mythic+?

I'm looking to just be more stable in pugs. With guildies it's not a prob but pugs I get comments about being squishy which puts me off a bit.

[Deleted]

What's the best way to use ISB in mythic and mythic +? I normally pop 1 going into packs or at the start of a boss. I use combo talent so I norm TP Keg to lower cd Andy pop another isb. stagger gets around 50% and if I have 2 charges up I will clear it.

But I read about some pop all 3 before going into combat.

With the recent buff is High tol a good tal for mythic+?

I'm looking to just be more stable in pugs. With guildies it's not a prob but pugs I get comments about being squishy which puts me off a bit.

Personally I don't pop ISB till my current ones about to expire - that way I can avoid wasting charges if we stun or the mobs start casting/not attacking me etc. If you know you're going to be using BoB though its often worth popping all 3 quite quickly so you can start working down the BoB timer.

Personally I only ever run HT or ED in any M+5 or above (I do have the legendary chest though which diminishes some of the value of BoC). If people are calling you squishy HT might be worth a try as it will smooth your damage intake.

[Quotey]

Talking about a different bug, where stacks refresh the duration.

afaik this only happens if both tanks are wearing the trinket, and one tank will not get any stacks. do you have a log of it otherwise?

[Daggerd]

afaik this only happens if both tanks are wearing the trinket, and one tank will not get any stacks. do you have a log of it otherwise?

I was completely unaware of this bug!

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...2PaRV#fight=20
So this is my M Nythendra kill. Both me and my cotank were wearing the heroic xavius trinket. Is that why I only had a short application of the darkened soul debuff toward the end of the fight but my cotank (who started the fight) looks like he applied the debuff through the whole fight? I guess that means only 1 of us should use the xavius trinket? That is really tilting >

[Deleted]

Dam tried HT with the little buff. Felt like a rock in mythics today

[Deleted]

Brewmasters feel pretty solid after the buff, digging the QoL change as well , it wont affect the low player representation though.

What the class needs is an overhaul to the healing kit. As long Brewmaster's main healing ability is Gift of the Ox most people will have a bad taste in their mouth when they try out the Brewmaster for the first time.
Spawning a healling orb that heals 8~ % of your health after taking damage equal to your full health bar (calculated as if no damage was staggered, which is the saving grace), is pretty underwhelming. When you get obstinate determination it all kind of comes together, healing elixir helps as well, but most people wont stick around long enough to get that artifact trait. And honestly, it's pretty stupid that our self heallings viability depends on a non-golden artifact trait fairly deep into the artifact weapon.

The spec would be the best it has ever been if they brought back the old Expel Harm in my opinion. a heal for the same amount as gift of the ox, but on a 8 second cooldown, no cooldown below 35%, Obstinate determination could be changed to a trait that reduces the energy cost of Expel Harm while below 35% or something.

Would make you feel more in control of your self healling, and you wont rely on the awkward 35% yo-yo-ing anymore. Always feels shitty to be at 20% and then have your Gift of the Ox orb fail to push you above 35%. Now you have to take damage equal to your full health to heal again! at this point you're pretty much left in the hands of your healer. I suppose managing your health around 35% is part of the skillcap at this point, but it's a weird play style and I doubt it's intentional.
Another more important benift from bringing back the old Expel Harm is the fact fresh Brewmaster's below maxlevel will be able to level with viable self healing now.

additionally I wouldn't mind to see stagger have full effectiveness against magic damage, never really understood the reasoning for this not being the case. Ignore Pain, Shield of the Righteous and Death Strike doesn't have half effectiveness against magic damage. if someone got some insight behind this decision I would love to hear it.

I actually really enjoy Brewmaster at the moment and I'm glad I sticked with it, successfully tanked Mythic+10 and I feel like a rock in mythic raids at this point. But it was a long road to this point. I can't imagine leveling a Brewmaster from scratch anymore, the class feels bad without Obstinate Determination, and that's frankly bad design.

But soloing Mythic+4 bosses by standing in a corner is fun i guess.

[Llarold]

Monk healing is pretty low, but being able to pick up Healing Spheres using movement binds allows for much more skillful play than having to devote GCD's to Expel Harm. The sustained magic damage toolkit is a little weak in a vacuum. It's extremely solid against burst magic damage, and no other class' magic defense AM has the uptime of ISB.

[Saiyoran]

How are you guys tanking M Il'gynoth?
The Horror is killing me through ISB/Diffuse from over half hp. I'm really not sure what I'm supposed to do against stack 2 of the Eye of Fate mechanic besides pray that my healers can top me off through the massive raid damage happening all the time.

It hits for 3M baseline first stack, which I can do no big deal with just ISB.
Second stack is 6M baseline (more than double my hp), which means that with ISB and Diffuse or Zen Med its still hitting for ~1.5M, which is more than half my HP. I don't get how I can consistently be high enough hp for this mechanic when the add is meleeing for >500k and there is massive ticking damage from bloods dieing all the time.

Anyone have any experience on this fight that has a CD rotation that they can share?

[keqe]

How are you guys tanking M Il'gynoth?

It didn't seem to hit more than 30-40% of your HP with 2 stacks and Diffuse/Zen med on. Quite manageable. Other tank will instantly taunt it after so if you are very low after it is fine. Fort brew lasts long enough to get it for both beams and helps with the melee damage inbetween.

If soaking the blossoms isn't a problem you can just hit the eye to bank IsB duration so you can just spam purify for the add.

Just remember to start tanking it so first tank takes only 1 stack. You basically get one beam for free that way.

Saving Exploding Keg for Zen Meditation can be a good idea if the melee attack timing is bad. (the miss won't interrupt the channel).

- - - Updated - - -

afaik this only happens if both tanks are wearing the trinket, and one tank will not get any stacks. do you have a log of it otherwise?

I am the only one with the trinket and I have used it in dungeons. It stacks and refreshes all the time. The buff is applied to your target and is an actual visible projectile (which ninja pulls quite easily if you happen to target a mob in a pack far away).

Our other tank got it for DK alt later and said he barely got stacks for it. It might be a monk only bug of sort.

[Toby451]

How much should we value the hot blooded relics over a higher ilvl relic with a crappy talent such as obsidian fist?

[Quotey]

I am the only one with the trinket and I have used it in dungeons. It stacks and refreshes all the time. The buff is applied to your target and is an actual visible projectile (which ninja pulls quite easily if you happen to target a mob in a pack far away).

Our other tank got it for DK alt later and said he barely got stacks for it. It might be a monk only bug of sort.

Thanks. I'll do some testing.

E: did testing, writing a post about it.

- - - Updated - - -

Did some tests.

1x monk with Grotesque Statuette tanking a mob. Expected result: damage taken procs stacks, duration counts down from 20 from first proc.
Actual result: Debuff stacks and refreshes duration.

1x death knight with Statuette. Expected: damage taken procs stacks, duration counts down from 20 from first proc.
Actual result: Same as expected.

1x death knight with Statuette tanking a mob, 1x brewmaster with Statuette taking AOE damage from this mob. DK gains first stack. Expected: DK gains stacks which count down to 0. Monk gains stacks which refresh (bug).
Actual result: DK gains stacks which refresh the duration of the proc. Monk does not gain stacks.

1x monk with Statuette tanking a mob, while targetting a CCed mob elsewhere. Expected: Both mobs gain stacks, the targetted one faster. Target's stacks will refresh duration, untargetted mob will not.
Actual result: As expected. The untargetted attacker gains stacks rarely which do not refresh duration.

Conclusion: Stagger has an effect on the trinket- possibly higher procrate on stacks, refreshes duration of debuff (VERY UNINTENDED). For Monks, OR the cotank of a monk who also uses this trinket, it is a 20+% damage reduction on a single target (and with target switching to maintain and refresh the debuff, on multiple targets as well, regardless of distance. has applications on dragons of nightmare ofc).

Other crackpot theories: a combat rogue, holy paladin, warlock (classes with friendly fire damage) could stack the debuff for a tank as well. Presumably lock would be best for this. I don't have a rogue or lock with the trinket to test but I do have a paladin. Might play about with light of the martyr stacking it later.

I didn't turn logs on for most of the tests because I'm dumb, but the last 2 are logged. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/CNxaPLFcrgz4M36G/

If anyone has other suggestions I have the trinket on both paladin and monk and friend to test, but I don't think there's anything else worthwhile to do OTHER THAN WHETHER THE TRINKET WORKS WHEN 2 NON MONK TANKS USE IT (intended: tanks have seperate debuffs that don't interact. expected: one tank can have a debuff up at a time. the other tank will not add debuffs to this or have their own stack, making it worthless).

Also if anyone tweets this to blizz: while I have your attention, please fix the leather shoulders from HC Empress to have the proper rogue tier model rather than a cata dungeon model. I just want to mog them. Please?

shadowmend test suggested by rivers: http://puu.sh/rAZuP/7f690c852d.png

[Tenant]

Any BrMs here that have tanked Dragons of Nightmare? How easy is the tank-switching on that fight for you guys?

The tanks in my group are sluggish and clumsy, and sometimes it takes them a while to get themselves coordinated and moving succinctly back to position. I figure BrM would shine with this fight's switching, just for how fast I could imagine they could do this:

• Place Transcendence spirit in your assigned side
• Run/roll when doing the switch
• Taunt your new dragon
• Run/roll back in range of spirit and Transcendence back into your original spot

Coupled with BrM's taunt making the dragon follow you faster, am I not wrong that they could make this switch absolutely silky buttery smooth?

[Saiyoran]

BrM is probably one of the best tanks for Dragons, I did it this week. Its a boss where the actual damage coming in is pretty low outside Shades, where you just keep ISB up since you don't need many brews the rest of the fight. Speed taunt is great, as well as the mobility to get out and back quickly (though I never even needed Trans, we were switching around 6 stacks so had plenty of time). The only taunts that you really even need all that mobility are the ones toward the end when there are spirits out and you have to go in a big arc instead of just straight across the room, but even then you dont really need Transcendence. The biggest thing was Statue, which trivializes picking up Dread Horrors and Corruptions.

[Julmara]

hey guys i have been removed as monk tank from my guild they sayd i shoud reroll on my hunter ... dang monk tank is great :/

[PizzaSHARK]

Monk healing is pretty low, but being able to pick up Healing Spheres using movement binds allows for much more skillful play than having to devote GCD's to Expel Harm. The sustained magic damage toolkit is a little weak in a vacuum. It's extremely solid against burst magic damage, and no other class' magic defense AM has the uptime of ISB.

Expel Harm shouldn't be on the GCD and Ox orbs should just be applied as charges to Expel Harm. It's too easy to accidentally use orbs during just normal movement, or risk shifting a monster's facing while chasing after an orb.

Obstinate Determination needs to be nerfed to hell and back (15-30 sec cooldown or something) and baseline Gift of the Ox needs to be improved. Maybe spawn at 70% HP taken instead of 100%?

I'd also recommend Gift of the Ox/Expel Harm heal over time and have Celestial Fortune procs heal over time, stacking with themselves. Brewmaster is all about smoothing out incoming damage, so it would make sense to smooth out incoming healing as well.

[Deleted]

hey guys i have been removed as monk tank from my guild they sayd i shoud reroll on my hunter ... dang monk tank is great :/

If that is remotely true then your guild is filled with imbeciles. Not saying BRM doesn't need tuning because they definitely do but because they're telling you to reroll to another class, fuck that mentality all the way to hell unless you/they are aiming for top10 progression guilds which I doubt they are.

Expel Harm shouldn't be on the GCD and Ox orbs should just be applied as charges to Expel Harm. It's too easy to accidentally use orbs during just normal movement, or risk shifting a monster's facing while chasing after an orb.

Obstinate Determination needs to be nerfed to hell and back (15-30 sec cooldown or something) and baseline Gift of the Ox needs to be improved. Maybe spawn at 70% HP taken instead of 100%?

I'd also recommend Gift of the Ox/Expel Harm heal over time and have Celestial Fortune procs heal over time, stacking with themselves. Brewmaster is all about smoothing out incoming damage, so it would make sense to smooth out incoming healing as well.

If gotx orbs were charges they'd probably resemble DH orbs too much even if its a more solid mechanic.

OB being or main survival-kit outside "group activity" is also idiotic particularly when its a trait and not baseline, however a ICD on 15 secs and 70% hp taken gotx spawn (non-raid) is far worse than its current presentation of our healing-kit. It needs a way bigger overhaul than that if they're going to add an ICD to OB.

We also need some sort of counter to the "oh shit" moments outside Fortifying Brew. The current <35% hp with no orbs = death is not an enjoyable situation and you only rarely get out of it if your Healing Elixir (talent -.-) is ready or you flee while using effuse but the stagger levels are likely high so you won't get over 35% before the mobs catch up.

Having hots integrated in the spec is definitely a step in the right direction for smoothing damage and countering stagger dot.

[Marrilaife]

hey guys i have been removed as monk tank from my guild they sayd i shoud reroll on my hunter ... dang monk tank is great :/

This guild must be filled with retards (sorry for harsh words but no semi-intelligent person and not clinically brain damaged would do that). Similar story as in this thread, you can read my replies (and other people with similar tone) to that guy and also see that he left the guild in the end and found one that would accept him, it was about DH not monk but kinda same premise.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2086052-Dh-woes

The only exception to the above would be if you were bad at tanking, which I would riskly assume you aren't since the guild gave you a spot in the first place. Obviously nowadays monk is not as easy to play as let's say warrior. But stagger has advantage on heavy melee hitting bosses, so it's not like monk doesn't bring anything. Also things like transcendence helps on the 4 dragon fight.

A guild that kicks a tank that has already proven their worth in the past is a rubbish guild that either plays favouritisms (hey dude, my bro wants to try tanking, I'm gonna give him your spot now go play hunter) or is obsessed with fotm which is a plague on its own. In either case, such a guild not worth staying in.