[BREWMASTER] 7.X Discussion Thread

[Ahsakura]

I'm still on the fence between BrM and Bear but am really trying to work on understanding and using my abilities effectively in the prepatch. I really miss Guard and think they could have renamed Guard to some brew that does the same thing to fit the "class fantasy", but I don't feel like the changes they made make me feels like any more or less of a drunken brawler.

Either way, I don't hate the way we play now but it's taking some getting used to after not playing since BRF.

[Julmara]

in the guide they said 30% haste than crit=mastery than versality

[arcuro]

so my first mythic raid.
besides most of my guildies trolled a bit because things were dying so much more faster until zakuun, or the first 8 bosses i felt quit, ok'ish?
but it is a hell to try to lern the new playstyle, hitting all my buttons and remember to PB once in a while. or leave one stack of PB/ISB for emergency

i have to rearange my buttons and smash the damn dummy for another day to get my fingers to the right buttons. i felt so insecure while tanking. Not because i was in danger or anything, just because it felt like i dont know how to tank anymore.

i deffnitly need another weakaure to track KS cooldown and energy to know i should stop using TP and wait for KS to come up. wasted lots of KS.

on the other hand, with 4p and class trinket, once the later bosses start to hit harder and you actually start to drop in HP, the brew overflow is insane.
starting Velhari with 3 minutes of ISB Buff because of stacking it during trash on her way... what the fuck!

other than that? hitting BoS seas useless right know without Blackout Combo, so is BoF. i felt much better with RJW than with Special Delivery
i need to get used to pressing Expal Harm as heal CD, but everytime i want to hit it, i was toped of by healers.
and start to remember when to use PB, and leave one fucking stack... ah i felt so dump for that

all in all, it was an experience. We are deffnitly not bad at tanking but i would say we are still and once anew one of the hardest to lern tanks out there.
i could not imagine how to tank without WA to track all that stuff.

well, more tank training for later. hope for other impression of others in mythic and i hope with Legion and artifact i will feel more safe in how i tank. i have a long way to go now

looking forward for some in depth guides with talent choices and based of rotations just to get references how to tank again XD



Oh and just for fun testing.
would something like that work? (and i mean, ISB Buff is stacking, so is it in some kind viable? or to say, how bad of tanking style would it be?):

#showtooltip Keg Smash
/cast [nomod] Ironskin brew
/cast [mod:shift] Purifying Brew
/cast Keg Smash

[jasdasm]

is the 4th piece actually worth it this Month ? not doing Mythic content

[Anachon]

Also on that note, did they change the way talent rows are recognised by macros? I tried fixing my "one button for all spells" macros but all attempts failed.

#showtooltip
/cast [@mouseover, help] [] Disabling Technique

... still works but ...

#showtooltip
/cast [@mouseover, help] [] [talent:1/1] Chi Burst; [talent:1/3] Chi Wave

... only registers Chi Burst but not Chi Wave. Similar problem with the new Lvl75 row, there it only accepts DH but not the other two.

Nobody else having this problem? If so then tell me please, then i can assume it's only a problem with the german client.

[Yxiomel]

I know, doesn't work anymore on german servers. I'm gonna flip if they want those to be translated too now....

Also on that note, did they change the way talent rows are recognised by macros? I tried fixing my "one button for all spells" macros but all attempts failed.

... still works but ...

... only registers Chi Burst but not Chi Wave. Similar problem with the new Lvl75 row, there it only accepts DH but not the other two.

I wouldn't expect
#showtooltip
/cast [@mouseover, help] [] [talent:1/1] Chi Burst; [talent:1/3] Chi Wave

to work. It says "if i ever have a helpful mouse over, cast CB on them. Under all other cicumstances, cast CB normally. Oh and a bunch of other stuff too, but youll never get here as the first 2 conditions encompass all possibilities".

I believe you mean:
#showtooltip
/cast [@mouseover, help,talent:1/1] [talent:1/1] Chi Burst; [talent:1/3] Chi Wave

which says "if i ever have a helpful mouse over with talent1/1, cast CB on them. Under all other cicumstances with talent1/1, cast CB normally. With talent1/3 cast CW.". There is no behaviour defined if you don't have talents 1/1 or 1/3, but I doubt that matters for your purposes.

[PinDrop]

#showtooltip
/cast [talent:1/1]Chi Burst;[talent:1/3]Chi Wave

Will cast whichever spell you have talented. There is no reason to have a mouseover conditional for Chi Burst as it is not a targeted spell in the first place. You could do it for Chi Wave however, to cast it as a heal first:

#showtooltip
/cast [talent:1/1]Chi Burst;[talent:1/3  @mouseover,help]Chi Wave;[talent:1/3]Chi Wave

Will cast Chi Burst if talented, Chi Wave on your mouseover if it is an ally, otherwise Chi Wave on your target.

[Termon]

What is the haste breakpoint to line up KS with ever other BoS for combo? Is it 25%?

[keqe]

For some reason Dampen Harm and Diffuse Magic have switched places in the talents. Important change.

[999DaZa]

Hey been following the Brewmaster on the forums since the Beta posts, I just want to thank all the people for the logical and constructive feedback. All other forum sites have been very negative and made me feel uncertain for the spec, bottom-line they very unhelpful.

Been doing some testing on my brewmaster and found Blackout Combo making our spec very interesting and refreshing. The 2 extra seconds off all our brews cd is huge and the delay stagger by 3 seconds has saved me numerous times in those near death moments giving my healing those most needed seconds to get a big heal off.

Just in my head with blackout Combo with pausing stagger and cd reduction wouldn't we be able to purify more (damage accumulated by pausing & with charges) than High Tolerance. If anyone can do some theory crafting on this or link a good guide on how to to do it , I would be appreciate it.

Also the only problem I m having is with large trash packs as stagger ramps up super quickly but if paired with a resto druid nearly feel invincible on 5 man content.

[Deleted]

What is the haste breakpoint to line up KS with ever other BoS for combo? Is it 25%?

it is 33% (then you get a 6 sec cd on keg smash)

[Hobbs]

Trying to be openminded and patient, but so far I'm really disliking the changes. I much preferred mop, early wod BM. I don't hate the way we play now, but it just feels clunkier to me. BoS feels really awkward being on a 3 sec cd. If we were a 1.5 sec gcd class I think it would feel smoother. Then you'd get into a nice rhythm of just alternating. But every 3rd global just doesn't feel right to me on top of trying to utilize other skills and keep energy low, brews going, aoe threat, etc.

BoS is just poor design imo. It is completely and utterly useless without blackout combo. Without that talent it's just a filler that has a cd, which makes 0 sense. With the talent it becomes the focal point of the spec and changes the rotation, which is cool in theory. I initially loved the idea of the talent but after playing it, it feels too much like micromanaging and less like "comboing."

I've been running dungeons and still trying to adjust to the play style. Round 2 felt much better and more fun, but I'm still not sold. Even with good weak auras set up and getting a better grasp for the spec, numerous globals still felt awkward with me wanting to do 2 or 3 things at once but not being able to and feeling punished as a result. I'm not going to give up on the spec, but I'm heavily leaning away from playing it in legion.

My biggest issues are these. The rotation feels clunkier than ever (see above). The removal of chi and making brews our "resource" really just hides our resource under the hood and makes it less satisfying to generate and spend. We have fewer cd's than ever in the history of the spec, which feels crippling when that extra pack gets pulled and you already used FB earlier. Guard or elusive brew should have been reworked into a small, short cd for us. FB being on its ridiculous base cool down makes dungeons frustrating because it's hardly ever up.

I'm really sad because I honestly loved most of the class changes blizz did this time around. WW is awesome and better than ever. Liked MW changes, feral, fire mage, the list goes on and on. I see almost every spec that I play more positively after the changes than I did before except this one. Like I said, not giving up on it. I know that some of the "clunkiness" I feel will smooth out as I practice more with the spec, but I'm fairly certain I'm going to main bear druid right now.

[stross01]

Trying to be openminded and patient, but so far I'm really disliking the changes. I much preferred mop, early wod BM. I don't hate the way we play now, but it just feels clunkier to me. BoS feels really awkward being on a 3 sec cd. If we were a 1.5 sec gcd class I think it would feel smoother. Then you'd get into a nice rhythm of just alternating. But every 3rd global just doesn't feel right to me on top of trying to utilize other skills and keep energy low, brews going, aoe threat, etc.

BoS is just poor design imo. It is completely and utterly useless without blackout combo. Without that talent it's just a filler that has a cd, which makes 0 sense. With the talent it becomes the focal point of the spec and changes the rotation, which is cool in theory. I initially loved the idea of the talent but after playing it, it feels too much like micromanaging and less like "comboing."

I've been running dungeons and still trying to adjust to the play style. Round 2 felt much better and more fun, but I'm still not sold. Even with good weak auras set up and getting a better grasp for the spec, numerous globals still felt awkward with me wanting to do 2 or 3 things at once but not being able to and feeling punished as a result. I'm not going to give up on the spec, but I'm heavily leaning away from playing it in legion.

My biggest issues are these. The rotation feels clunkier than ever (see above). The removal of chi and making brews our "resource" really just hides our resource under the hood and makes it less satisfying to generate and spend. We have fewer cd's than ever in the history of the spec, which feels crippling when that extra pack gets pulled and you already used FB earlier. Guard or elusive brew should have been reworked into a small, short cd for us. FB being on its ridiculous base cool down makes dungeons frustrating because it's hardly ever up.

I'm really sad because I honestly loved most of the class changes blizz did this time around. WW is awesome and better than ever. Liked MW changes, feral, fire mage, the list goes on and on. I see almost every spec that I play more positively after the changes than I did before except this one. Like I said, not giving up on it. I know that some of the "clunkiness" I feel will smooth out as I practice more with the spec, but I'm fairly certain I'm going to main bear druid right now.

First, pre-patch is nothing like Legion. It's not even remotely similar. T18 and class trinket are making things happen that won't and can't happen in Legion. Our HP pools are small compared to what the intention is in Legion.

In Legion, Blackout Strike triggers Dark Side of the Moon, which is important. It is almost a majority of the damage we do. Used on CD, on single target, it can outdo Keg Smash.

About the cooldowns: if the only way you survive an extra pack is Fortifying Brew, you need to expand your depth of knowledge about the class. The toolbox is light on tools, but it's not that empty.

[Anachon]

-snip-

#showtooltip
/cast [talent:1/1]Chi Burst;[talent:1/3]Chi Wave

Will cast whichever spell you have talented. There is no reason to have a mouseover conditional for Chi Burst as it is not a targeted spell in the first place. You could do it for Chi Wave however, to cast it as a heal first:

#showtooltip
/cast [talent:1/1]Chi Burst;[talent:1/3       @mouseover,help]Chi Wave;[talent:1/3]Chi Wave

Will cast Chi Burst if talented, Chi Wave on your mouseover if it is an ally, otherwise Chi Wave on your target.

The "at"mouseover,help condition was not for Chi Burst but Chi Wave and it worked somehow prior to 7.0. Pindrops last suggestion nearly hits the mark but the mouseover on Chi Wave didn't work. I tried fixing it and this seems to be the final version, with your listed parameters:

#showtooltip
/cast [talent:1/1]Chi Burst; ["at"mouseover, help] [talent:1/3]Chi Wave

Edit: Ah i see the problem, the forum auto-corrects the @mouse part to a user mention. Replaced @ with "at" for the moment.
Thank you guys.

[PinDrop]

Thank you guys.

I thought putting it in a code would keep it from doing that user mention. Ah well, glad it worked for you!

[Deleted]

@999DaZa

Under the condition, that you use BlackoutCombo-ISB every 6 seconds, the value of your purifies actually doubles.

Considering that the stagger debuf can only bleed out half of the time but increases all the time due to boss hits the stagger dot will grow to its double size before balancing out. At that point the dot will tick for double the usual value, but only half the time (due to emp-ISB) creating a balance. It does make the purify way more worth it but the damage from stagger also becomes more "bursty" since it ticks half the time for double the value.

With artefact points in Potent Brews (+ISB duration) the Purify dot goes from +100% to + 66% but still worht it. This does however require way more practise than the other two talents.
For example you should also always try to Purify at the end of emp-ISB. This does however collide with the next BoK and you do NOT want to empower PB. Meaning you have to go BoK-ISB-Filler-Filler-PB-BoK and the ISB has to be as arly as possible and the PB as late as possible.

[Hobbs]

First, pre-patch is nothing like Legion. It's not even remotely similar. T18 and class trinket are making things happen that won't and can't happen in Legion. Our HP pools are small compared to what the intention is in Legion.

In Legion, Blackout Strike triggers Dark Side of the Moon, which is important. It is almost a majority of the damage we do. Used on CD, on single target, it can outdo Keg Smash.

About the cooldowns: if the only way you survive an extra pack is Fortifying Brew, you need to expand your depth of knowledge about the class. The toolbox is light on tools, but it's not that empty.

1. That's just hyperbole. You're only lacking one ability that has no interaction with the rotation. Yeah we're missing some passives through artifact and stuff but the rotation won't change that much. The items you listed mean nothing to me. I don't even know what they do. Just came back within the past month from mop, so whatever bonus is breaking the spec for you is certainly not for me.

2. Thanks for that tip. Forgot about the artifact trait. Regarding the damage, that's not really my point though. As a tank, I want my abilities to do tanky things by giving me defensive value or giving me increased access to my defensive abilities (which you mentioned through dark side of the moon). Definitely an oversight on my part, thanks!

3. You really just straw manned my point. I never said fort brew was the only thing I ever used. You just assumed that and condescended me. I said it's the only explicit defensive cd we have, which feels bad. It's not fun (for me) to only have 1 explicit defensive and then for it to only be up about every other boss in dungeons. I've played BM at not the highest, but still a very high level for years. I'm not new to our rather unorthodox toolkit. Don't worry. I'm expelling all the harm, sweeping my leg around, pausing and purifying stagger. It's not my first rodeo. I feel that if you'd checked my post history or followed the legion beta thread you might have been able to see my point more clearly.

Lastly just as a clarifier, I'm NOT saying that BM sucks, is unviable, and people should reroll for progression. If you thought that was what I was saying then you misread me. They're fine! I AM saying that BM right now feels (obv primarily subjective) like a clunky hunk of crap compared to previous iterations and compared to guardian druid right now. Not sure about other tanks because they're the only 2 I've played since prepatch.

[Tech614]

No ish brewmaster feels clunky right now.

You're gcd capped, and one ability has no use outside of being free damage at the moment.

If you actually played it at 110 on the beta you would know it feels nothing like playing at 100(you may still not like it, but it's drastically different feel of play). That was his point.

[Hobbs]

No ish brewmaster feels clunky right now.

You're gcd capped, and one ability has no use outside of being free damage at the moment.

If you actually played it at 110 on the beta you would know it feels nothing like playing at 100(you may still not like it, but it's drastically different feel of play). That was his point.

Again, I'd argue that that's an over exaggeration. The cd's are the same. The resources are the same. I'm sure it does play differently, but it's not going to be unrecognizable. I realize you'll probably just see me as stubborn, and that's fine. But I'm unconvinced. All the core's already on prepatch and what I see on paper just isn't going to change it that much. Ironically, your mention of being gcd capped actually deters me from playing it even more. I like being gcd capped. I hate empty gcd's and always having tiger palm to spam if I had nothing else to do was one of the reasons I switched to monk from warrior in the first place.

Maybe one or some of you could help me understand WHY it's so different on beta. If it's much slower on beta then I guess I'm just s.o.l. and the spec's not for me anymore. :/

[Ahsakura]

Again, I'd argue that that's an over exaggeration. The cd's are the same. The resources are the same. I'm sure it does play differently, but it's not going to be unrecognizable. I realize you'll probably just see me as stubborn, and that's fine. But I'm unconvinced. All the core's already on prepatch and what I see on paper just isn't going to change it that much. Ironically, your mention of being gcd capped actually deters me from playing it even more. I like being gcd capped. I hate empty gcd's and always having tiger palm to spam if I had nothing else to do was one of the reasons I switched to monk from warrior in the first place.

Maybe one or some of you could help me understand WHY it's so different on beta. If it's much slower on beta then I guess I'm just s.o.l. and the spec's not for me anymore. :/

I *think* their point is exactly what they've been saying. The artifact weapon/talents may not change much on paper but they do significantly improve the ability for BrM to survive and do all the tanky things. Does that mean we'll get a new CD like Guard to make us feel like we're tanking more? No. But that doesn't mean we aren't.

I haven't played beta at all, I just came back from taking a hiatus from the game shortly before HFC came out (was trying to get BRF AotC when I stopped playing) and after coming back I agree that BrM doesn't feel the same. I miss FB being lower CD. I miss Guard way more than I thought. I miss having to manage uptime of shuffle and being able to let my stagger build so much that I was topping DPS meters before purifying it all off and taking no damage. But I still find our "rotation" more rewarding than other tanks and think we still have a lot going for us that leads to a more fun, albeit less defensive CD oriented, style than others.

It's very possible that BrM just isn't your style anymore. I'm playing a Bear on the side because I like their style even though I feel they lack the kind of style you want as well. I've never played a Pally or Warrior at max level though and only briefly tried Blood back in BRF. Maybe DH is going to be rewarding? Who knows. I just love the aesthetic of BrM too much to give them up.