[BREWMASTER] 7.X Discussion Thread

[Tech614]

Brewmaster is easily the 2nd best tank option for Guarm after Guardian. Prot Pala, BDK and VDH are all laughably bad at trying to solo tank him(though I'm sure all are still possible just require far more effort and far less room for error). You only have a prot war do it if you don't have a Guardian or Brewmaster as they are a distant 3rd best option.

[Slatch]

Was comparing solo logs and the lowest DTPS I could find was a prot Warrior by far. I don't know about distant 3rd. However the fact we're in a spot where we can do something some other tanks cannot is awesome again!

[TaurenNinja]

That's also my point of view. My guild isn't as good so we've just a couple of minutes ago killed Odyn M because apparently dodging stuff is so hard for some ppl but I have no issues whatsoever tanking him *or* the adds as a BrM. Yes it's just Odyn and not Guarm but still, the takeaway is if you already have problems at Odyn then of course Guarm or Helya will probably feel insane to you. I think everyone who thinks BrM is in a bad state doesn't play the spec to its full potential yet. As BrM you have the power to adapt to different levels of incoming damage purely via smart brew usage. On Odyn for example I can stack a ton of ISB during the rather low-damage P1 and 2 (purifying only rarely at 130%+ or so when I notice that healers are quite busy) and then have like 1:30m-2:00m ISB in P3, which allows me to have enough brews to instantly purify 2 times after each spear, which basically means you take zero damage from a spear. Which is huge. And generally speaking for all phases: Let your healers do their job a bit, you don't need to purify too early. Dropping a bit lower is part of any tank in this expansion, always remember that. Maximizing the value of your purifies is important.

[Antifu]

It all depends on what data you're looking at. If you're looking at raw dtps then fine, we're not going to win. There's very few circumstances where a tank dies (in a raid at least) from just pure overwhelming dtps, though. In most circumstances you're going to look for those high burst windows where fangs lines up w/ unmitigated melee's and multiheaded's. Monks just don't have those. Sure, the dtps is going to ramp up and it's going to be serious, but it's predictable. I know exactly where my steady damage taken is going to become high and I need to mitigate instead of slow, and if you know how and where to handle it I can actually maintain 100% IsB uptime anyways.

Look at the graph of dtps. Druids are trending to have peaks and valleys around downtime of 250k-1m. Warriors have it as 250k-1.25/1.5m. Monks are 500k-1m. Our valleys are higher, but our peaks are about where druids are.

Now swap over to EHRPS, and you'll get an idea of healer stress as they stare at your health. It's about the same story. Our lows are higher than druid lows, but our highs are lower than warrior highs. In my logs there's not much fluctuation at all. Healers know about how much they need to be putting out to keep me alive, and predicting and managing high damage events is my job.

I honestly think druids are just way too broken at the moment, and really they have been. They get the best of all worlds, and their only real downfall is maybe mobility. That's why I said second. Warriors are obviously capable, but when it comes down to it our EHRPS needs are extremely similar. The part where I think we win out over them is that our needs from the healers is very static while there's is dynamic. Again, this is more personal opinion, though. It's hard to quantify smoothness.

[Tech614]

Was comparing solo logs and the lowest DTPS I could find was a prot Warrior by far. I don't know about distant 3rd. However the fact we're in a spot where we can do something some other tanks cannot is awesome again!

DTPS means jack shit when solo tanking Guarm.

Actually DTPS means jack shit period in the vast majority of situations. The fact people still think it's some tank measurement like DPS ot HPS is actually quite hilarious.

I could have the lowest DTPS of any tank spec in the game, but if I have a period where I'm vulnerable to incredible burst and can go 100-0 in a global I'm the worst tank in the game.

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I honestly think druids are just way too broken at the moment, and really they have been.

They're as broken as brewmaster was in BRF which indeed is pretty damn broken.

[Zephirdd]

Tanked a Mythic +7 VOTW, Skittish+Teeming for the first time.

Holy shit people weren't joking when they said Skittish+Teeming is aids. Looking forward for Necrotic+Raging next week.

[Slatch]

DTPS means jack shit when solo tanking Guarm.

Actually DTPS means jack shit period in the vast majority of situations. The fact people still think it's some tank measurement like DPS ot HPS is actually quite hilarious.

I could have the lowest DTPS of any tank spec in the game, but if I have a period where I'm vulnerable to incredible burst and can go 100-0 in a global I'm the worst tank in the game.

So a 0 DTPS, the lowest you can go, doesn't mean anything? You literally claim having the lowest DTPS doesn't mean anything. Obviously you don't mean that but really settle down and stop being so aggressive here. Monk forums are a pretty nice place. The reality is DTPS is a valid metric, but its value is generally lower than spike mitigation. The community needs to get over this 1 bit comparison where things are either super important, or not important at all.

Take a look at this report. Low DTPS and very few spikes. I'd rather heal that than most BrM logs of the fight.

[Hikitsu]

Free buffs end up making a class overpowered which end up warranting on spec-neutering nerfs.

See: Shadow Priests on 7.1.5.


Also this whole community perception thing has been improving a LOT lately. Sure, there aren't many BRM tanks out there, but I haven't seen someone saying "you're brm so I dont want you" at all. People talk shit until they see a good brm in action, let them be. We don't need everyone being a BRM; Monk is already the least played class anyway, of course BRM tanks will be the least played ones when they aren't brokenly OP(like the pre-6.2 one)

You're not wrong. However I'd still like to see some utility/mechanical changes, nothing major just some QoL stuff. That I think we can all agree on.

[Herogamer555]

You're not wrong. However I'd still like to see some utility/mechanical changes, nothing major just some QoL stuff. That I think we can all agree on.

I would like expel harm to be off GCD and have orbs go bye-bye (just become a buff) to prevent accidental usage when moving mobs. Also statue baseline and some sort of utility that you can use as an answer to "Why should we bring a brewmaster over a another class?".

[Avsruls]

So I want to make a tank and I'm deciding between a pally and monk. I have tried playing pally but it's kind of boring IMO.

Are Brewmasters good in Mythic+ dungeons. I have heard different things about the strength of the class. I don't need to be some tank doing +15 dungeons or mythic raiding. I just want to find a fun class. Also don't mind if it's hard to play because I rather play something challenging and feel awarded from playing something that requires more skill.

[Deleted]

So I want to make a tank and I'm deciding between a pally and monk. I have tried playing pally but it's kind of boring IMO.

Are Brewmasters good in Mythic+ dungeons. I have heard different things about the strength of the class. I don't need to be some tank doing +15 dungeons or mythic raiding. I just want to find a fun class. Also don't mind if it's hard to play because I rather play something challenging and feel awarded from playing something that requires more skill.

You have come to the right place for fun. You will also have to choose whom to listen to (I suggest the likes Llarold, Erebzion, etc.) and whom to treat as the persistent background noise.
I also find other tanks boring and/or unplayable for myself.
Paly - boring. The only fun part is the shield flinging, but that also gets boring when you have it proc all the time.
DK - boring AND slow.
Bear - 3 buttons, some strange skills (Maul?!), OP defenses (my 845ilvl bear can easily keep up 2 stacks of Ironfur +80% time ...).
DH - fun zoom zoom ... and that's it.
I will need to level my warrior finally.
Monk - zoom zoom, decide what to spend BlackoutCombo on, decide to use IronSkin or rather Purify, decide to facetank OR kite, zoom, teleport, so much to do! And you have all the alcohol raining down unto your enemies (Keg Smash, Exploding Keg, Special Delivery) and breathing chilli into their faces Pretty NOT a serious attitude to tanking, as opposed to all that "I am the Light's smth smth" or "The Lich King commands my butt over here" or "We defend the Dream" BSB.

[Julmara]

we got some very neato changes on ptr you shoud read them

[redfella]

PTR Changes:

Dampen Harm Reduces all damage you take by 20% to 50% for 10 sec, with larger attacks being reduced by more. Monk - Level 75 Talent. Instant. 2 min cooldown.

Elusive Dance Purifying Brew now clears an additional 15% of damage delayed with Stagger. It also grants up to 20% (+5%) Dodge and damage done for 6 sec, based on the level of Stagger damage purified. Brewmaster Monk - Level 100 Talent.

Gift of the Mists Gift of the Ox has an up to 75% (+15%) increased chance to trigger, based on your missing health. Brewmaster Monk - Level 45 Talent.

Mystic Vitality (New) Stagger is now fully effective against magical attacks. Brewmaster Monk - Level 75 Talent.

Ring of Peace Form a Ring of Peace at the target location for 8 sec. Enemies that enter will be ejected from the ring. Monk - Level 60 Talent. 40 yd range. Instant. 45 sec cooldown.

Summon Black Ox Statue Summons a Black Ox Statue at the target location for 15 min, pulsing threat to all enemies within 30 yards. You may cast Provoke on the statue to taunt all enemies near the statue. Windwalker Monk - Level 60 Talent. 40 yd range. Instant. 10 sec cooldown.


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So it would seem that we got a new talent to stagger up to 100% damage of magical, with some buffs to Dampen Harm, Elusive Dance and Gift of the Mists, but they seem to have completely taken out Dave from Brewmaster and given it to Windwalker? What a load of crock. I truly hope it's just a step towards making it baseline for Brewmaster, otherwise I'm going to be seriously pissed off as it's one of my favourite tools in M+ dungeons.

[Deleted]

So I want to make a tank and I'm deciding between a pally and monk. I have tried playing pally but it's kind of boring IMO.

Are Brewmasters good in Mythic+ dungeons. I have heard different things about the strength of the class. I don't need to be some tank doing +15 dungeons or mythic raiding. I just want to find a fun class. Also don't mind if it's hard to play because I rather play something challenging and feel awarded from playing something that requires more skill.

Greetings, so having mained a monk since launch, I finally got around to sorting an alt (something i've been hesitant to date with due to the hectic farming required) and landed on a paladin. I myself am a mythic raider and strive to slam high level mythics but you've said you're not bothered too much on that side so I won't go on about it.

In short, I actually am itching when on my paladin to go back monk, if you gut everything and look at the raw abilities...mobility and paladins lack thereof kills me..going from rolling around slapping up mobs to throwing shields and waiting for stuff to come to you is painful...

The rotation is pretty fun, the biggest plus I love about paladins is interupts...a single interupt, your avengers shield which procs decently and then Belf Torrent but then again, it goes back to viability for mythic plus. Stuns are the same, single vs group..the main issue I have with the class is how squishy they are, people moaned and moaned about BrM viability and that they are paper tanks.

Let me just say as i've always done...its nonsense and I recall tanking mythics back when 850 gear as my paladin is and was more confident chain pulling. People moan about monks quality of life but in my eyes, you're spoilt for choice as it is and yes...its not the perfect class but I wouldn't give my monk up for anything.

The rotation is more complex than protadin and once you get a taste for kiting and the fun you can have with brews, you'll never look back.

Let me know if you need anything else as i'm sure I've been just waffling.

- - - Updated - - -

PTR Changes:

Dampen Harm Reduces all damage you take by 20% to 50% for 10 sec, with larger attacks being reduced by more. Monk - Level 75 Talent. Instant. 2 min cooldown.

Elusive Dance Purifying Brew now clears an additional 15% of damage delayed with Stagger. It also grants up to 20% (+5%) Dodge and damage done for 6 sec, based on the level of Stagger damage purified. Brewmaster Monk - Level 100 Talent.

Gift of the Mists Gift of the Ox has an up to 75% (+15%) increased chance to trigger, based on your missing health. Brewmaster Monk - Level 45 Talent.

Mystic Vitality (New) Stagger is now fully effective against magical attacks. Brewmaster Monk - Level 75 Talent.

Ring of Peace Form a Ring of Peace at the target location for 8 sec. Enemies that enter will be ejected from the ring. Monk - Level 60 Talent. 40 yd range. Instant. 45 sec cooldown.

Summon Black Ox Statue Summons a Black Ox Statue at the target location for 15 min, pulsing threat to all enemies within 30 yards. You may cast Provoke on the statue to taunt all enemies near the statue. Windwalker Monk - Level 60 Talent. 40 yd range. Instant. 10 sec cooldown.


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So it would seem that we got a new talent to stagger up to 100% damage of magical, with some buffs to Dampen Harm, Elusive Dance and Gift of the Mists, but they seem to have completely taken out Dave from Brewmaster and given it to Windwalker? What a load of crock. I truly hope it's just a step towards making it baseline for Brewmaster, otherwise I'm going to be seriously pissed off as it's one of my favourite tools in M+ dungeons.

A step in the right direction so far, I was hoping for more baked in talents (/wave BoC/Dave) but I can hold hope. However I've rarely given up Leg Sweep for Dave in mythic plus and tanking as high as +14 thus far. The stun is just so valuable with most affix's/mob's in dungeons, granted if we have more monks/DH's etc; I can but rare to have stuns covered off as strongly in groups.

[Xiaojin]

The talent calculator on wowdb.com still shows the Dave talent in its regular place for BrMs. Maybe it's just a data mining error or both, BrM and WW, will have access to Dave.

Mystic Vitality sounds OP even if you have to give up Healing Elixirs for it.

Overall, I like those changes, especially Dampen Harm. But there is still nothing that helps with easy content. In something like a Heroic dungeon a BrM will still look considerably worse than other tanks because the real strength of Stagger and the Brews only starts to show when you get hit really hard. IMHO this and the lack of easily accessible combat log events that show how much Stagger you purified contribute to the perception that BrMs are weaker than they actually are. I don't want to imply that tank balance is perfect, I just want to say that I think too many people think of BrMs as being worse than they are.

[redfella]

The talent calculator on wowdb.com still shows the Dave talent in its regular place for BrMs. Maybe it's just a data mining error or both, BrM and WW, will have access to Dave.

Those are manually updated. PTR Changes are from fresh from MMOC front page.

[Deleted]

Those are manually updated. PTR Changes are from fresh from MMOC front page.

I know its just me being stubborn in my thought process but I simply can't see them getting rid of Dave for us. I mean "oh BrM's are choosing between sweep and this and they're crying out for baseline again, lets just get rid"

I mean surely they can't be as ridiculous! here's hoping its a baked good coming our way.

[redfella]

Yeah, I can hardly see it happening, but remember it's Blizzard we're dealing with.

[Xiaojin]

Just went to wowhead.com to check what they show in their change log. Over there, Dave is flagged as a talent for BrM AND WW. I still guess that it's just an error on MMOC that it is shown as a talent just for WW.

[redfella]

Well, we ARE losing SOMETHING. 4 talent tiers don’t exist. I just hope it's dave going baseline as datamined tooltips indicate dave as a talent going away.

Edit: seems the new talent replaces Diffuse Magic.