1. #2641
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    Yeah I'm not really worried about offense as a tank, lol

    Just got the leg shoulders as well, so I'm likely going to be using brm for world quests, so I suppose that's the only time I'd be caring about offense.
    Well, it's actually nice doing more damage in M+ as you're doing like 1/4 of the party damage overall, but in raids it's whatever, just parses.

  2. #2642
    WHoD DR component is really solid, and scales nicely with ilvl, also the crit it provides synergies with the current tier set bonus, it's an all round good trinket

  3. #2643
    This week being Bolster/Grievious/Tyrannical, which trinkets would you use for 17+ keys ?
    - WHoD 915 ;
    - Arcano 920 ;
    - Reliquary 935.

    By default I'm using WHoD and Arcano (+Blackout Combo talent). Problem is that some bosses have some REALLY hard hitting abilities (Ymiron's Dark Slash deals 70~% of my health on Fortified weeks).

    On first glance I'd swap Arcano with the Reliquary, yet I'm not sure if the dps loss swapping BoC for HT is worth it (Prydaz+Wrist legs for now, I forgot to keep an extra neck item so...can't swap it).
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  4. #2644
    Quote Originally Posted by A-sayo View Post
    This week being Bolster/Grievious/Tyrannical, which trinkets would you use for 17+ keys ?
    - WHoD 915 ;
    - Arcano 920 ;
    - Reliquary 935.

    By default I'm using WHoD and Arcano (+Blackout Combo talent). Problem is that some bosses have some REALLY hard hitting abilities (Ymiron's Dark Slash deals 70~% of my health on Fortified weeks).

    On first glance I'd swap Arcano with the Reliquary, yet I'm not sure if the dps loss swapping BoC for HT is worth it (Prydaz+Wrist legs for now, I forgot to keep an extra neck item so...can't swap it).
    I honestly see no point in Blackout Combo in M+ as it only boosts single target damage (and not even THAT dramatically). I'd rather run with HT with very close or even higher dps on trash (if you manage to break extra second cd on keg smash).

  5. #2645
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReD-EyeD View Post
    I honestly see no point in Blackout Combo in M+ as it only boosts single target damage (and not even THAT dramatically). I'd rather run with HT with very close or even higher dps on trash (if you manage to break extra second cd on keg smash).
    It is quite important especially in tyrannical weeks where you spend a considerable part of dungeon killing bosses. And I disagree about BoC not being dramatic. It is with face palm relics. It is easily the most damaging ability for me on single target.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    For everything else, there's Brewmastercard

  6. #2646
    Quote Originally Posted by ReD-EyeD View Post
    I honestly see no point in Blackout Combo in M+ as it only boosts single target damage (and not even THAT dramatically). I'd rather run with HT with very close or even higher dps on trash (if you manage to break extra second cd on keg smash).
    goes to show what experience with tanking dungeon above a 15 you have, especially on tyrannical where that single target damage is a make or break

  7. #2647
    Quote Originally Posted by antico View Post
    goes to show what experience with tanking dungeon above a 15 you have, especially on tyrannical where that single target damage is a make or break
    Of course extra less than 100k dps gain (which is what I'm simming myself with 940 gear) with 3 dps doing over 1 million each will make A WHOLE LOT of difference. Right.
    Especially on Grievious week where surviveability is actual question.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by keqe View Post
    It is quite important especially in tyrannical weeks where you spend a considerable part of dungeon killing bosses. And I disagree about BoC not being dramatic. It is with face palm relics. It is easily the most damaging ability for me on single target.
    Yes, boss damage is important aswell, but you're still most of the time killing trash packs.

    Face palm relics are nice, but overall (party-wise) it's still not that big, but the defense suffers a lot.

    Actual numbers:

    I currently sim (my triple hot blooded) HT - 620k, BoC (same triple hotblooded) - 700k, BoC (with 3 facepalms) - 750k

    Yeah, INSANE damage boost.
    Don't forget we're talking about boss battle with 3 adequate dps doing good cooldown burst.
    Last edited by ReD-EyeD; 2017-09-29 at 09:45 AM.

  8. #2648
    Bloodsail Admiral keqe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReD-EyeD View Post
    Of course extra less than 100k dps gain (which is what I'm simming myself with 940 gear) with 3 dps doing over 1 million each will make A WHOLE LOT of difference. Right.
    Especially on Grievious week where surviveability is actual question.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yes, boss damage is important aswell, but you're still most of the time killing trash packs.

    Face palm relics are nice, but overall (party-wise) it's still not that big, but the defense suffers a lot.

    Actual numbers:

    I currently sim (my triple hot blooded) HT - 620k, BoC (same triple hotblooded) - 700k, BoC (with 3 facepalms) - 750k

    Yeah, INSANE damage boost.
    Don't forget we're talking about boss battle with 3 adequate dps doing good cooldown burst.
    I don't know about your sims but in m+ no add bosses my DPS is closer to 900-1m depending on it's duration.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    For everything else, there's Brewmastercard

  9. #2649
    Quote Originally Posted by keqe View Post
    I don't know about your sims but in m+ no add bosses my DPS is closer to 900-1m depending on it's duration.
    Nothing's wrong here. Reduce the fight length (thus increasing the bloodlust uptime) add dps potion and flask and here is your 900-1000. The thing is dps are not sitting still at that time.

    Or you're straight out saying sims are wrong? Show your own sims then.

  10. #2650
    Bloodsail Admiral keqe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReD-EyeD View Post
    Nothing's wrong here. Reduce the fight length (thus increasing the bloodlust uptime) add dps potion and flask and here is your 900-1000. The thing is dps are not sitting still at that time.

    Or you're straight out saying sims are wrong? Show your own sims then.
    900k+ is quite normal for a boss without lust. Prolonged uptime is relatively high but I don't use second pot in my farm runs though. These aren't simms. These are real situations in dungeons.

    - - - Updated - - -

    On other topic,

    You may be aware of the new Pantheon trinkets. When all different trinket procs are present in the raid raid gets some good benefits. So we get a must have trinket to use in raids to buff raid.

    But that's not the worst. It has the same problem as other "proc from taking damage" trinkets. The uptime is horrible for brewmaster. From PTR it was about 13% for brewmaster while it was around 27% for druid.

    There only being 2 tanks also makes it worse as the tank buff is probably the most decisive for it.

    The uptime problem was more of a nuisance in ToS but now that it affects whole raid this is kind of unacceptable. Bringing brewmaster in the raid pretty much gimps the whole raid because there will be fewer moments where all buffs are present.

    It might not be an issue for progression since you won't get trinkets for the raid regardless but it is still a problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    For everything else, there's Brewmastercard

  11. #2651
    Quote Originally Posted by keqe View Post
    900k+ is quite normal for a boss without lust. Prolonged uptime is relatively high but I don't use second pot in my farm runs though. These aren't simms. These are real situations in dungeons.
    So you're saying that we can't trust sims and you just feel like you're doing tremendously more damage? I would rather discuss it with actual facts and numbers to operate with.
    Forgot to add that I was simming shoulders/chest combo if anyone is interesting.

  12. #2652
    Quote Originally Posted by ReD-EyeD View Post
    (...) I would rather discuss it with actual facts and numbers to operate with.(...)
    ohh please do, can we have a log of your +17 ?

  13. #2653
    Quote Originally Posted by antico View Post
    ohh please do, can we have a log of your +17 ?
    You just want to ignore everything I said before?

  14. #2654
    well nothing you said before are actual facts and numbers, just results of a script in a 3rd party program, if you wanna discuss real game scenario, just make a log of run of any dungeon above 15 where tyrannical is starting to matter.

    prove me wrong, make such a log to show that your sims are true, and I'm talking out my tail

  15. #2655
    Quote Originally Posted by antico View Post
    well nothing you said before are actual facts and numbers, just results of a script in a 3rd party program, if you wanna discuss real game scenario, just make a log of run of any dungeon above 15 where tyrannical is starting to matter.

    prove me wrong, make such a log to show that your sims are true, and I'm talking out my tail
    Surprisingly convenient that after actual sims it's I who have to prove something to random people on the internet who claims that on brewmaster tank they're doing a freaking 1 million dps consistently on specifically single target bosses without extra potions or anything. Yeah, ok.

  16. #2656
    lemme elaborate

    1. I did not claim such nonsense
    2. can you provide any actual actual evidence of those sims existing ? just because you said so, doesn't make it plausible
    3. sims are nice and all, but logs will always differ and I implore you prove me wrong in game not on paper

    ohh and let me get back on point, cause I think you're arguing with the wrong person, I merely pointed out a flaw in your argument. my claim is running offensive talents is more beneficial in dungeons 15-17 than defensive one, which I make based on my personal M+ experience, ofc mileage may vary, I just find it ludicrous talking about the game instead of actually playing it
    Last edited by antico; 2017-09-29 at 04:02 PM.

  17. #2657
    Bloodsail Admiral keqe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReD-EyeD View Post
    Surprisingly convenient that after actual sims it's I who have to prove something to random people on the internet who claims that on brewmaster tank they're doing a freaking 1 million dps consistently on specifically single target bosses without extra potions or anything. Yeah, ok.
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

    It has 55% uptime on time warp. But don't overestimate bloodlust for brewmaster. You just trade other globals for keg smashes. It isn't "30% more everything" like for most others.

    It would be close to that 900k without the lust.

    I did use second pot there but it was just 10 last seconds. Didn't even chain use them because I suck.

    There was slight downtime too when moving the boss as I tried to move it faster than dragging it for the group.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ce=2&by=target

    928k DPS on skovald only. 44% uptime on lust and only prepot. The boss charges around. I lose auto-attacks (and thus trinket crit) and gifted student 4% crit from dodges because of shields.


    Note in both situations I didn't even use flask.


    And ironically if you complain about lust being present on both and thus invalidates this, Lust is what devalues Blackout Combo and facepalm, because more of your damage comes from keg smashes.

    Thus in a no-lust situation the relative damage increase from them is even higher.


    I don't normally log my dungeon fights. Did these for the sake of argument as you like to demand proofs with just "muh sims say" instead of posting anything concrete yourself either.

    On a boss like EoA last boss where you can have 100% clear uptime 900k+ without lust is quite common. (groups I have been often lust on giant for some reason).



    And about face palm being "only 100k dps gain". BoC triples your TP damage. And on average you have 30% of your damage from TP.

    So when you remove that 3x multiplier you do 80% of what you normally do. 100%/80% is 25% increase.

    That in my eyes is significant increase.
    Last edited by keqe; 2017-09-29 at 06:05 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    For everything else, there's Brewmastercard

  18. #2658
    Quote Originally Posted by keqe View Post
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

    It has 55% uptime on time warp. But don't overestimate bloodlust for brewmaster. You just trade other globals for keg smashes. It isn't "30% more everything" like for most others.

    It would be close to that 900k without the lust.

    I did use second pot there but it was just 10 last seconds. Didn't even chain use them because I suck.

    There was slight downtime too when moving the boss as I tried to move it faster than dragging it for the group.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ce=2&by=target

    928k DPS on skovald only. 44% uptime on lust and only prepot. The boss charges around. I lose auto-attacks (and thus trinket crit) and gifted student 4% crit from dodges because of shields.


    And ironically if you complain about lust being present on both and thus invalidates this, Lust is what devalues Blackout Combo and facepalm, because more of your damage comes from keg smashes.

    Thus in a no-lust situation the relative damage increase from them is even higher.
    I'm honestly thankful for being reasonable and providing this information. No sarcasm or anything here.

    Your numbers per hit are almost exactly the same as mine. I don't run Special Delivery tho. I need to try it myself, I feel like there is not much global cooldown space for it in BoC builds.
    What m+ level is this? I couldn't find it in logs.

    Bloodlust is not that important, I agree, but you have to change your rotation depending on if you're breaking extra second or two on keg smash. I'm actually not sure here, would need to do an extra math here

    I probably need to work on my trinkets. Currently running 935 Gift of Radiance (the odyn one with agi/mastery and stun/dmg use) and that haste one from mistress and both are very underwhelming.
    Last edited by ReD-EyeD; 2017-09-29 at 06:12 PM.

  19. #2659
    Bloodsail Admiral keqe's Avatar
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    It was +13 with some guildie's alt+friends.

    During lust I replace every other breath of fire for keg smash. Can't really tell any better place to put it. Hard to fit explosive keg on the opener too without delaying/dropping BoF DoT or keg smash.

    I imagine this is even worse for RJW build as you drop BoF for RJW instead. Special Delivery does scale well with lust I admit.


    Those trinkets are quite horrible I agree. The odyn trinket is probably 30 ilvl behind in stats.

    But we will be slaving with the Pantheon trinket soon so just 1 trinket slot matters and the dog trinket from Antorus isn't that bad for it.

    It would be good if many reported the uptime issue on the pantheon trinket. It is a quite huge problem because it affects the whole raid's performance
    Last edited by keqe; 2017-09-29 at 06:28 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    For everything else, there's Brewmastercard

  20. #2660
    I feel like HT is better than BOC on fort or any affix where you need to kite. Tyannical you can go either way.

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