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  1. #61
    Fluffy Kitten Wilderness's Avatar
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    Alright, everyone please take a step back and just focus on the topic at hand rather than making this into a dick-measuring contest. Thanks.

  2. #62
    Archimonde seemed really easy this week after the nerfs. We spent more time on Manny.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    First off, your reading comprehension is off. I'll restate what I said:

    "Also, if you haven't even done the current tier prior to the nerfs" - which you didn't do, with a kill date of may 18. Infact, despite joining a guild that cleared the tier almost 4 month prior to your first kill, not even your guild did the content "pre nerf", first kill came a month after valor upgrades (and ring-speeding through VP) was released.

    So that's where I'm "getting off" stating facts. Have a proper discussion, or even argument, but don't pull the fucking "oh you must not be playing at a high enough level where this matters"-card when you don't play at the level where it matters *yourself*. It's condescending, and quite honestly infuriating to see people do that rather than base their arguments on proof or data. Going "I'M BETTER THAN YOU SO I MUST KNOW MORE" is fucking kindergarten level.

    As far as logs etc go, they are the only factual evidence we have right now. If you haven't even bothered to look at them prior to making sweeping statements that hunters are superior to mages, that's a huge fuckup from your side. If you want to be cocky, always have evidence on your side. But sure, enlighten me - which fights (apart from Hellfire Assault, as I've already mentioned) are hunters better damage-wise than mages? Because according to WCL, the only two other fights at peak performance where that happens are Socrethar (where hunters whore on the ghosts that will die due to the construct anyway = empty damage) and Gorefiend (if they are allowed to cleave the souls down). On the vast majority, and on singletarget especially, Fire is superior.

    Lastly, using 1 week's worth of logs is entirely fine to establish where the class rankings are, as an initial gauge anyway. The sample size already consists of over 1.5K marksman and fire mages *on archimonde alone*. Overall, it consists of 20K+ fire mages and marksman hunters. If Marksman was pulling ahead of fire consistently, we'd be able to see the picture by now.
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...=7&dataset=100 Here's the data for you to play with. I can see that if you tune it down to sub-50th percentile, MM hunters start to pull ahead (probably because fire mage is a shitton harder to get right than MM is right now, no denying that). Maybe that's what you're experiencing?
    Even if the sample size was smaller, your argument is entirely flawed - if the statement "one bad pull will skew the rankings pretty heavily" is true, then that must go for *both* fire mages and MM hunters, which means we'd end up with *gasp* a useful, aggregated result.

    And you and I both know you intended to be condescending as fuck. You don't both pull the "I'm better than you so you wouldn't know" card along with the "but it's okay that you don't understand" if you don't want to sound smug and condescending. I'm sad to say that triggers me, and if you want to play that game, I'll happily stoop to your level and stomp all over your ego, because this is not how we have nice discussions.
    A) Clearly I'm out of line by thinking that you're speaking of the nerfs that came this week, instead of 9 month old nerfs. Reading comprehension eh?

    B) I don't recall ever saying that I'm better than anyone, but if you like jumping to conclusions, hop along.

    C) The purpose of me saying 1 week's worth of pulls isn't an accurate judge is because a large portion of players are still learning their classes, another portion is testing talent choices, another portion are testing trinket choices, and so on and so forth. Myself for example, I've been running different combos all week, not just in mythic, but also in heroic and normal to practice. I'll probably continue to do so for another week or two.

    D) As far as your "ego stomping", please. While the juvenile part of me would love to go back and forth, it's indeed pointless to the discussion. You actually made a few good points throughout your 5 paragraph rant, I'll concede that much. But please don't delude yourself into thinking you'll do anything of the sort, especially on the topic of a video game, because that's just silly.

    All in all, after you explained it, fire mages may be in a better spot than I give them credit for. Looks like it's time to hit the forums and figure the class out a bit better. Simple as that
    Sylvaeres-Azkial-Pailerth @Proudmoore

  4. #64
    Do us a favour and shut up Az.

    You sounded like a condescending prick and that hilarious considering you killed the boss two months ago.

    And point a) is 100% lack of comprehension on your part. Stop trying to explain it away.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    Yeah pretty severe extra nerfs. After struggling on tuesday we went back in today and one shot Mannoroth (hilariously, despite playing extremely poorly) and killed Archimonde in a few pulls after figuring out new timings.
    The same happened for us. We had Mannoroth to about 10m on Tuesday then came back on Wednesday decided to lust on pull and killed him right away. Then two shot Archimonde.

    I'm fine with how it is right now. None of us need gear so I'd prefer to login get someone else the mount then log out until Legion.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Rahkhun View Post
    Manno died in roughly 2.5-3 mins, incredibly easy if not too fast causing the last phase to start before we had got rid of all the first shadows stacks.

    Archi was 1 wipe due to infernals not being split because our hunters lost taunt, second kill again was a super fast kill.

    a 50% hp nerf might have been a bit too far tbh.




    Lots of people saying the nerf to wrought made it much easier.

    How? Are you often getting people hit by others beams or something? its a 30% reduction on a hit you take at worst 6 and for most people only 3 times during the fight now, and you had to deal with at least 3 of that strength pre-nerf anyway...

    its shaved off like a few tens of K damage off of one ability that isn't exactly raid destroying in the first place.
    It might be dependent upon how you do it. To us it was noticeable, but that may be because of a job change.

    Pre-7.0, we 2 healed the fight (and usually carried someone), always a Disc Priest + Something else (MW Monk was ideal usually) and we had our Disc Priest also do the fire soaking every time by themselves. Wrought #2 (of 2) of the fight, we're near the portal where archimonde spawns, so we're a bit compact. Right after that WRought ends, chains need to be broken AND the Disc Priest had to go get fire, meaning getting the raid up was usually 1 healers job. It was just a lot going on at once.

    We're usually fine with it, but it has always been 1 of the 2 "moments of pain" on the fight (along with Infernal #3 in P3). We only ever died there because of a fuck up on someones part or an overdensity on one side.

    Post patch, we had the non-tanking tank do the fire and 3 healed it, so those things together, plus the nerf, took off the edge. If healers have the mana to last through p3 (something I need to ask them), we could probably go back to 2 healing it.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Rahkhun View Post



    Lots of people saying the nerf to wrought made it much easier.

    How? Are you often getting people hit by others beams or something? its a 30% reduction on a hit you take at worst 6 and for most people only 3 times during the fight now, and you had to deal with at least 3 of that strength pre-nerf anyway...

    its shaved off like a few tens of K damage off of one ability that isn't exactly raid destroying in the first place.

    Wrought initially wasn't nerfed at all because it counts as friendly fire (that is, the damage source is originating from *a player*, and players damage hasn't been nerfed), so before that first nerf, they were fighting full-powered wroughts with 20-30% less healing output (and likely 3 healers). It would essentially have been like doing Archi pre-upgrades with 3 healers in P2. This is why when you go in death logs you can see who you took wrought damage from at all; Because it's player based, not environment.

  8. #68
    Deleted
    We killed manno and archi on wednesday it wasnt too bad. Mannororth we decided to lust at the start and hold the 2nd ring for p3. We were boosting 1 player and went 3 healers. We pushed p3 before the 2nd shadowforce in p2. Considering i stacked the raid with a bit too much AoE damage because i was worried about the imps i reckon next week will be alot easier in terms of pushing the boss. Most of our issues came from our players forgetting how to play xD. It will be interesting to see how easy the wraths are now. We still use the box soak anyone found an easier way since the nerf?

    Archimonde was interesting. The p3 seething bug was pretty funny but once we learnt it was back left there was no issue. We front loaded our healer cds during the wrought like we usually do so i suspect thats why we didnt have an issue with healing through it at all. However I think we will just save them all for last phase now it has been heavily nerfed. Just pop a healing CD after 2/3 Marks have gone off should be ok. We had a couple of wipes/deaths due to either healers being used to a disc priest and not topping people off who would otherwise live or that ridiculous tank push back bug and seething bug but they shouldnt be an issue now.

    We didnt clear since we had 1 hour left and had other guild stuff to sort before legion how were the other bosses?

  9. #69
    we had to do a bit of re-learning on manno; we also wound up lusting in p1, since our transition times were all thrown off and the reduced health/damage makes the final phase burn is much easier. Overall not very difficult.

    Archimonde more or less just fell over; you blast through the first two phases now and the infernals fall over so easily that p3 is a breeze.

  10. #70
    Deleted
    I might go with a mindset of "BL and zerg on every boss" next time. Of course, if it doesn't work some changes might be needed. But the "problem" with doing a "proper and full" strategy now is that you can ignore major mechanics by healing them or just staying dead and still kill it so it might not be worth thinking it more than that before the 1st pull.

    PS. Some obvious exceptions might apply. e.g. Keep BL for Gorefiend's burn phase. But some seemingly obvious exceptions might not apply, e.g. keeping BL for a socrethar ad.

  11. #71
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Azkial View Post
    um. I don't think you know what you're talking about. Hunters are clearly in a better spot now than mages. If you don't realize that, that's ok. You're simply not playing at a level where it matters. No big
    Oh baby you have no idea who I've played with or I'm playing with now.

  12. #72
    Anyone else getting insane fps drops from mythic archimonde wrought chaos since the patch? I've also got less than usual fps on manno as well.

  13. #73
    Field Marshal Whitemist's Avatar
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    We did them both first time after patch yesterday, having killed them both back in January. We found the biggest issue to be Manny (3-4 wipes), since the fight get completely "out of sync" with how fast he goes down, and the abilities still (somewhat) having to be dealt with. Archie was surprisingly easy and went down first pull.

  14. #74
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by pkm View Post
    Anyone else getting insane fps drops from mythic archimonde wrought chaos since the patch? I've also got less than usual fps on manno as well.
    i got the same issue sadly

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by pkm View Post
    Anyone else getting insane fps drops from mythic archimonde wrought chaos since the patch? I've also got less than usual fps on manno as well.
    Are you using the Method wrought chaos WAs? This was causing issues with the fps of most people in our raid, after we turned it off it was fine. I still have an overall fps loss after the patch.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by GwiGwi View Post
    Are you using the Method wrought chaos WAs? This was causing issues with the fps of most people in our raid, after we turned it off it was fine. I still have an overall fps loss after the patch.
    It was flickering here but I don't know if it caused any fps issues. I did though saw some fight consistency issues. e.g. dying from chains 40 yards out of them which was happening before but very rarely and something similar happened in Iskar with fire.

  17. #77
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    For people saying they just lust at the start of mannoroth and zerg it down. Do you simply ignore wraths? Could anyone provide me with a ballpark figure of what your raid damage should look like for that approach? How many healers would you generally use?

    Asking this as i recently returned and my guild appears to be struggling on this guy and i would like to see an archimonde kill before the expansion really ends.

    Would appreciate any and all help i can get to make this process smoother, thanks in advance.

  18. #78
    Deleted
    The wraths can be spread to the raid and yolo. But, we tried that with weaker healing the 2nd time and it was harsher. With a half-arsed box soaking it went better.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by pkm View Post
    Anyone else getting insane fps drops from mythic archimonde wrought chaos since the patch? I've also got less than usual fps on manno as well.
    Yes.

    This topic became moot when Manny+Archi were nerfed even further.

    Archimonde is now a BL+Ring at pull fight and Ring in platform phase, maybe a 3rd ring not even sure it goes so fast.
    We phase Archi so quickly that we get FPS drops because everythign is happening at the same time.

    Mannoroth is also a BL+Ring at pull and Ring in p3 fight, takes no longer than 3-4min.

  20. #80
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobindax View Post
    The wraths can be spread to the raid and yolo. But, we tried that with weaker healing the 2nd time and it was harsher. With a half-arsed box soaking it went better.
    If you soak do you generally soak all of them or just the first set? How any healers do you use 3?

    Thanks for the answers so far

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