One sided games / system doesn't know my skill level

[Deleted]

Greetings Heroes,

So I have noticed lately that roughly 80% of games in Quick Mode are one sided. I have won games where I didn't even use my Ultimate, and lost games where the match went so badly that I questioned my own existence. Most of the time it is because 2-3 of the players of the losing team are super ultra bad, not because the other team is extremely good. If this happened occasionally then it is fine, but it is happening a lot.

I feel that the system does not really know my skill level. I'm not saying I'm the best player, I'm far far far from it. But I know my stuff. I really wonder why the system still matches me with or against players who use their Ultimate on camps, go 1v4 then get killed and blame others and then do it again, use their abilities just because it is off cool-down, or chase and get killed then chase again....

I've just finished a game where my team were chasing the enemy team while an Immortal is attacking our core and I'm defending alone. I pinged, typed on chat, but to no avail.....We lost......

For me, losing a game when the two teams are equally matched is a lot better than winning a game where my team is having a picnic.

Cheers.

[Amerrol]

The problem is average MMR and how the system uses it. One team could be all 2k rated pkayers while the other has one or two at 3k and the rest significantly under 2k. Those 3k players are expected to carry players who cannot handle going against a full team hundreds of MMR higher because they don't even fully grasp game basics yet. While it's not impossible to carry in this game, it is much harder to do so then in other mobas.

You can't throw a 1300 player into a 2k average game and expect him to keep up with what is going on. A 2300 player is more likely to be able to keep up in a 3k rated game because they should be able to understand how the game works by that point, but skill is also a huge factor.

Basically, games aren't decided by the good players. They're decided by which of the bad players is less bad, which is a shitty system.

[Nikkaszal]

The problem is average MMR and how the system uses it. One team could be all 2k rated pkayers while the other has one or two at 3k and the rest significantly under 2k. Those 3k players are expected to carry players who cannot handle going against a full team hundreds of MMR higher because they don't even fully grasp game basics yet. While it's not impossible to carry in this game, it is much harder to do so then in other mobas.

You can't throw a 1300 player into a 2k average game and expect him to keep up with what is going on. A 2300 player is more likely to be able to keep up in a 3k rated game because they should be able to understand how the game works by that point, but skill is also a huge factor.

Basically, games aren't decided by the good players. They're decided by which of the bad players is less bad, which is a shitty system.

The main problem is it is much easier for a bad player to LOSE the game for his team than it is for a great player to WIN it for his team.

Example: one team has 5 x 2k MMR players. Other team has 4 x 2k, 1 x 3k and 1 x 1k. They are equal... "on average". But in practise, that 1k player who has no business being there is going to turn the match into a perpetual 5v4 - even worse of he's the tank or support and his team crumbles around his inability to keep up. The 3k player might possibly pull off some sick moves but at the end of the day the team of 2k's has a huge advantage.

[Zelendria]

Even the best players can have bad games.
The amount of times two players with almost exactly the same MMR one raging at the other failing horribly as if they never fail themselves.
People make mistakes sometimes only one, but if it's a critical moment the game is lost as a result. Then all of a sudden some jumped up little prick berates beyond all reasonable proportion as if this player has literally fed all game.

To the OP: How would the system perfectly know your skill level unless you're an infallible robot

[Amerrol]

Even the best players can have bad games.
The amount of times two players with almost exactly the same MMR one raging at the other failing horribly as if they never fail themselves.
People make mistakes sometimes only one, but if it's a critical moment the game is lost as a result. Then all of a sudden some jumped up little prick berates beyond all reasonable proportion as if this player has literally fed all game.

To the OP: How would the system perfectly know your skill level unless you're an infallible robot

Its not the one bad play someone made rhats the problem. Its dying 5 times in the first 5 minutes. Its a jungle sonya running around doing camps late game and missing every team fight. Its an assassin doing less damage then a brightwing. Its tanks with no sense of whwn to engage or disengage.

This is all shit i see on a regular basis from plat and diamond players. They arent just having a bad game. They are bad and every game they have is bad.

[Deleted]

The main problem is it is much easier for a bad player to LOSE the game for his team than it is for a great player to WIN it for his team.

Example: one team has 5 x 2k MMR players. Other team has 4 x 2k, 1 x 3k and 1 x 1k. They are equal... "on average". But in practise, that 1k player who has no business being there is going to turn the match into a perpetual 5v4 - even worse of he's the tank or support and his team crumbles around his inability to keep up. The 3k player might possibly pull off some sick moves but at the end of the day the team of 2k's has a huge advantage.

I put my money on team 2. They are six guys after all ^^

On a serious note, there has been some excellent analysis on reddit concerning this problem and it indicates, that the high MMR outlier is more likely to influence team performance than the low MMR outlier. As a gut feeling, I would have sided with you; but the math - and this is based on a crapton of games - says we're wrong.

edit: doh, forgot the link: https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthe...e_by_the_best/

Concerning the OP, how many games have you played in QM overall? Low number of games makes it harder for the matchmaker, also other factors like playing at odd times when the player pool is limited or (otherwise good) players using new heroes and underperforming with them.

[Deleted]

Well... I have that problem³. I am playing qms with just terrible match makings (qm has no concept of warrior support assassine i think), in 30% of the games I play (400 currently) we have at least 1 leaver who will not return. In unraked draft, I face in 40% of cases at least 1 silenced (enemy or ally) hero, who will take nova or zeratul no matter what- ruining the draft concept, and even without them nova and zeratul almost always make it into unranked draft.

So I start with QMs, get tilted, go over to unranked drafts and get tilted... and then realize hero league is the only way.

[Deleted]

Well... I have that problem³. I am playing qms with just terrible match makings (qm has no concept of warrior support assassine i think), in 30% of the games I play (400 currently) we have at least 1 leaver who will not return. In unraked draft, I face in 40% of cases at least 1 silenced (enemy or ally) hero, who will take nova or zeratul no matter what- ruining the draft concept, and even without them nova and zeratul almost always make it into unranked draft.

So I start with QMs, get tilted, go over to unranked drafts and get tilted... and then realize hero league is the only way.

In unranked draft you can always ban zerathul/nova if you get the possibility, just to prevent your teammates from taking them. Me and my friends thought about that. Now we only had one random picking nova so far, and he was a good nova player so he did a good job. However, I imagine if it happened often, with players not good at playing them, we would have to start banning them.

[Nikkaszal]

In unranked draft you can always ban zerathul/nova if you get the possibility, just to prevent your teammates from taking them. Me and my friends thought about that. Now we only had one random picking nova so far, and he was a good nova player so he did a good job. However, I imagine if it happened often, with players not good at playing them, we would have to start banning them.

Most of the Novas I've played with - and against - in draft have been very effective. She's not quite as troll-pick as she used to be.

But yeah, if I get into lobby and two people pre-pick NovaTul, I'm banning one of them.

[Deleted]

The biggest problem is I cannot adapt to their thinking. It's like the map is random, their pick is random (favorite) and they just do whatever they want without chat and signals. The greatest problem is they expect 5 group whole time. Got as low as silver 3 now and I will soon be bronze. I cannot understand how the game works here. After watching streams, after doing builds and picking my fav heroes - I play a completely different game. I fell like I have to chose overpowered heroes, carry and continue. This is bad. Rather look for other mobas.

- - - Updated - - -

I played 10 games, I lost all and now I am silenced. I payed 300$ for skins, stimpacks and shit. I do no longer understand HOTS. I feel like a dropout. Will try LoL now. It's a cry for the money. But.... this is too much for me. I do levelup, I do objectives.. but I cannot win (nobody cares for lanes).I am on night shift... so all games I play are from 2-9am.

[RH92]

The biggest problem is I cannot adapt to their thinking. It's like the map is random, their pick is random (favorite) and they just do whatever they want without chat and signals. The greatest problem is they expect 5 group whole time. Got as low as silver 3 now and I will soon be bronze. I cannot understand how the game works here. After watching streams, after doing builds and picking my fav heroes - I play a completely different game. I fell like I have to chose overpowered heroes, carry and continue. This is bad. Rather look for other mobas.

- - - Updated - - -

I played 10 games, I lost all and now I am silenced. I payed 300$ for skins, stimpacks and shit. I do no longer understand HOTS. I feel like a dropout. Will try LoL now. It's a cry for the money. But.... this is too much for me. I do levelup, I do objectives.. but I cannot win (nobody cares for lanes).I am on night shift... so all games I play are from 2-9am.

As our friend Kael would say "You gambled... and lost.".

You either get lucky in placement matches and place high or you are in for a massive grind full of headaches. I get what you are saying, I am in same situation. Maybe slightly better as I am in Gold 4, I too have insane problem adjusting my mindset to the mediocrity of players there. I just can not get my head around the fact Morales or Valla are valued higher than Rehgar or Falstad for example. It just doesn't matter you time camps with objectives or make some great plays, if you don't have a team who can capitalize on it, you lose no matter what. However then you have rare cases where they listen to you and you lead them to victory in 8 minutes.

My biggest issue with Hero League as it is now, is the fact you can duo queue. It so fucking unfair against solo players to such point you basically cannot play this mode solo. How can it be a showcase of individual skill when you can cheat the system by playing with a friend, greatly reducing the risk of bad players in your team. Basically everybody I know who duo queued placed higher compared to solo. Just make Hero League a pure solo queue, Team League a 5 stack queue and introduce a new mode called Buddy League or whatever where it matches groups of 3 and 2 together.

Right now I just stick to Quick Match/Unranked when playing solo and bash my head against the wall with a friend in Hero League.

[ophion1990]

I played 10 games, I lost all and now I am silenced. I payed 300$ for skins, stimpacks and shit. I do no longer understand HOTS. I feel like a dropout. Will try LoL now. It's a cry for the money. But.... this is too much for me. I do levelup, I do objectives.. but I cannot win (nobody cares for lanes).I am on night shift... so all games I play are from 2-9am.

That might be the problem. I play at odd times aswell and IDK if it's Overwatch, pokemon GO, Legion prepatch or just the summer but I feel like match quality took an absolute nosedive. It's one of the reasons I've been avoiding HL and haven't really played a whole lot in general recently.

My biggest issue with Hero League as it is now, is the fact you can duo queue. It so fucking unfair against solo players to such point you basically cannot play this mode solo. How can it be a showcase of individual skill when you can cheat the system by playing with a friend, greatly reducing the risk of bad players in your team. Basically everybody I know who duo queued placed higher compared to solo. Just make Hero League a pure solo queue, Team League a 5 stack queue and introduce a new mode called Buddy League or whatever where it matches groups of 3 and 2 together.

Right now I just stick to Quick Match/Unranked when playing solo and bash my head against the wall with a friend in Hero League.

Ideally there'd be a solo que, 2-3 man que and the 5 man que, I just don't think the game has the playerbase for it (anymore?). :/ Duo queing as 1 good tank and 1 good carry definitly simplifies the climb to a somewhat unfair extent, when compared to someone who just solos as a tank/carry or let alone a bruiser type character/support.

[RH92]

Ideally there'd be a solo que, 2-3 man que and the 5 man que, I just don't think the game has the playerbase for it (anymore?). :/ Duo queing as 1 good tank and 1 good carry definitly simplifies the climb to a somewhat unfair extent, when compared to someone who just solos as a tank/carry or let alone a bruiser type character/support.

From my experience a Tank/Support + Melee Carry (Be it Assassin or Bruiser) is the highest chance to win. Everybody wants to play a Ranged Carry in Hero League and if your team picks 3 Ranged Carries, your Support might have difficulties with keeping your Tank alive or your backline is super weak against enemy dive. In general it is best to have at least 2 melee Heroes.

If you are good at melee Carries and your friend can play Tank, picking favourable engagements and covering your escapes, or play Support you can trust on, go for it.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

Are you sitting in queue for more than 6 minutes? If you are, you can blame that as a significant factor in getting matched with people who aren't reasonably close to your MMR. I always make sure to drop from queue for about 10 secs and requeue if I wind up waiting for more than 4 minutes to prevent the system from dropping some of the rules just to stick me in a match.

[Deleted]

So after a few days... I won again. And alot. But this doesn't change the thing that most games are indeed terrible. Leaver make 20% and 60% are indeed just favorite pickers who do no matter what. I think the biggest damage I took was when this season was my first. I think if the next season and the next placement matches start I have a way to escape this hell. No more draft were warriors=tank etc.

[Igi]

Agreed. My games rarely last more than 20 minutes. We either faceroll them or they faceroll us.

[Nikkaszal]

As our friend Kael would say "You gambled... and lost.".

You either get lucky in placement matches and place high or you are in for a massive grind full of headaches.

People who get lucky and are carried through placements are the bane of my fucking existence in HL. They get placed in Gold 2 because they got 8 straight games of luck/carrying in and have NO business being at that rank because they're fucking shit at the game. They'll be gradually graded down to where they SHOULD be but until then they're in my team fucking my game up.

[Staryu]

meanwhle I keep getting games where I have 1 retard who never goes to the obj or a leaver or what have you. I've had bad luck multiple games in a row and my rank is just slowly but surely getting lower and lower because of this. Its so frustrating that it only takes 1 person to ruin a match and force you to constantly 4v5, enemy team having the 5, thus you lose the match in he long run no matter how good a fight the 4 of you put up. And of course my pre-season MMR of just messing around or learning the game (this is my first MOBA) makes it even worse for me. My skill has improved tremendously since those days yet my ranking suffered when Placement Matches came about this season 1. I made a smurf account and my placement matches went exactly the same as my main account.. 6 wins and 4 losses, yet my main accnt got put in Silver 2, and my smurf account was put in Platinum 1. Cool. I guess Ill play the smurf accnt that doesnt have nearly as many heroes, and none of my cool master skins. I just wish they would do a LEGIT wipe clean.

Ok rant over.

[Deleted]

I lost 4 games now on hero league. One due bad call. One due murky/nova on garden of terror - they were on drugs or something at least did nothing, one due an 1st time etc on towers with enemy clear better and one... well don't care anymore. In every match I was the dude who banned.

And I wonder... Yesterday I had good matches. Why now? Is it the daytime? There should be away to get at last sane people in draft?

Does new season reset MMR? If I do have luck in placement matches do I have a chance to get diamond+ when I am nor silver? Do stats in game even matter?

edit/ Would also help to have an option to disable to play WITH premade group. Have all those failures of Cho'gall and other combos promoted by pros practiced in silver league

[kencloudli]

Happened to me loads of time. Like others have said, the system is random and can't determine proper placement. Also, it is easier for a player to make a team lose than carry a win for the team. I actually won QM more than HL even though HL has bans and team coordination. I guess players in QM just play for lols.