[7.0 Retribution Paladin] Guide and Discussion

[Sinzaram]

According to WoWhead:

REMOVED Greater Blessing of Might Places a blessing on an ally that gives their attacks a 10% chance to deal 30% additional damage as Holy.
You may only have 3 Greater Blessings active at one time.

But nothing about giving some buff somewhere else.

Good news overall. If it might be a bit scary having something removed with nothing sounding like compensating.

But they do all the tuning at the end of the PTR/Beta cycle once they've stopped adding and removing parts of classes.

[Deleted]

So... stats nerf, legendary nerf, might removal and no compensation!

This patch is sounding like an absolute nightmare.

[Sinzaram]

So... stats nerf, legendary nerf, might removal and no compensation!

This patch is sounding like an absolute nightmare.

But they do all the tuning at the end of the PTR/Beta cycle once they've stopped adding and removing parts of classes.
Stop panic pls.

[Deleted]

But they do all the tuning at the end of the PTR/Beta cycle once they've stopped adding and removing parts of classes.
Stop panic pls.

7.0 is still fresh man. If you don't yell, you won't get heard. We should panic before we get shafted.

[Sinzaram]

7.0 is still fresh man. If you don't yell, you won't get heard. We should panic before we get shafted.

Well according to the wowheads the spec passive has "Retribution Paladin: Modifies Damage/Healing Done 12%" a flat 12% across everything, so Might is already rolled in. So panic?

[Deleted]

No need for panic guys, compensation buffs are now in form of auras (like Fire Mages got with the last build). And ours is listed now on wowhead at least: 12% increased damage.
We would be where we're now, maybe 1-2% better/worse depending on how much damage you deal compared to your other DDs. So that's definitely good news (and theoretically a buff, as we'll gain one GBoW and buffed GBoK each).
Edit: speaking of GBoK: it's buffed by 50% (1.8*SP to 2.7*SP), for my Ret it would be 8k hps if fully consumed. In terms of potential hps it would be slightly better than Prydaz (10k hps on my latest M Ursoc kill). Speaking of which, Prydaz looks better statwise to, trading 800 Mastery for 1.4k Haste and 100 Crit).

As for the legendary changes:
Cloak and shoulders nerf seems fiar to me, both would propably be roughly a 4-5% increase post nerf. The nerf to the ring is imho a tad too much, but still in range of the other two.
The belt on the other hand should be nerfed further, looking at logs, we're dealing 35-45% of our damage during crusade. With 20% more damage during it, the belt in conjunction with crusade would be as strong as the cloak is right now.
And since I'm a little bit salty: I hoped to see a change to justice gaze, imho it's one of the worst designed legendaries (as it is situational and not really good in it's niche).

[Deleted]

I assume the "Retribution Paladin" passive is buffing damage numbers as implied by the mouse-over tooltip, and not just the Flash of Light mentioned in the MMO-C post.
WoWhead lists it as a flat +12% buff to healing and damage.

[Deleted]

So, change of topic. It will be interesting to see if the legendary cloak gets nerfed next patch or not.

My prediction is that the numbers go down to a 15-20% increase.

Called it (post from 2016-11-13)
/golfcalp

[Useful]

That macro isn't within ToS. I don't care, and you probably will never really get banned for it, but you technically could. Just saying it in case you're not aware.
On your actual question, it's better to use TV when every generator is recharging, to generate more holy power over the course of a fight. It's a slight increase though, and if you're using a macro I'm guessing you don't really care about minmaxing, so it's probably mostly irrelevant for you !

thank you sir. i have been using g103 keyboard since start of pandas i think and no ban so far... i simmed my paladin and did a few sessions with training dummy using macro and not using macro. the results were almost equal. (literally a 1-2 k dps difference)

[Snowfunk]

I assume the "Retribution Paladin" passive is buffing damage numbers as implied by the mouse-over tooltip, and not just the Flash of Light mentioned in the MMO-C post.
WoWhead lists it as a flat +12% buff to healing and damage.

TV not included...

Jesus.
They are gutting us.
And Legendary's nerfed by 40-60% effeciency.

[Deleted]

TV not included...

Jesus.
They are gutting us.
And Legendary's nerfed by 40-60% effeciency.

Click the "See More" button on the +12% aura's WoWhead page. All of our abilities are getting the 12%, TV is also listed.

[Deleted]

Well according to the wowheads the spec passive has "Retribution Paladin: Modifies Damage/Healing Done 12%" a flat 12% across everything, so Might is already rolled in. So panic?

Not really enough to compensate might + legendary nerfs.

So, yes! Still panic!

[Morally Grey Storm]

Not really enough to compensate might + legendary nerfs.

So, yes! Still panic!

Relax, take it easy~
For there is nothing that we can do~



"Here be some sensless copypaste nonsensical bullshit about how you should not worry about Ret performance unless you're one of those on the bleeding fething edge of progression Dragonslaying"

[Wrecktangle]

Not really enough to compensate might + legendary nerfs.

So, yes! Still panic!

I don't have the legendary cape and still do quite well (typically 99% for the content that I do) and might is never worth more than 8% of my damage so this is a decent trade to me. I could see if I had the cape where one could be upset, but it was broken. It needed to be fixed. The ring nerf I question a little bit, because it doesn't feel very powerful by itself IMO, sure with the cape it synergizes well. I don't have a better solution though. Maybe 3s instead of 4?

[Morally Grey Storm]

Ring nerf is ouch indeed.
Its 8 HoPo over full Crusade duration.

[snackfeat]

So glad I have both the cloak and the belt, as well as the ring, cause the ring is going to be a piece of shit with this change.

[Feenuxik]

So if they are removing GBoM then we can't use Swarming Plaguehive anymore since it mainly procs from GBoM?

[Piwielle]

PTR changelog, yay.

So, blessing of might have been removed, and we got a 12% flat damage increase. Okay. I went and checked my might damage from this and last weeks farm kills, and might is consistently between 8 and 10% of my damage (it's 10% of my damage on Xavius, where I might a SP doing a truckload of damage, so quite an unusual case).
I'll take might as 9% damage, as an overall value.
The buff does compensate for it, and we have a rough 3% on top of it. I'm okay with it, removing blessing is nice, counting on others to do well was a bit annoying. It does however mean that Swarming Plaguehive and Aran's Relaxing Ruby are no longer viable options for us, as it was the only thing proccing them (aside from WoA).

Went on the PTR to try and test stuff around, but you can't copy characters atm, and my PTR char only has 4pT19, so it's pretty hard to compare vs a live log.
Anyway, cape is getting shafted harder than I was expecting, I was banking on a 5% nerf rather than 10%. But then again, all good legendaries are getting pretty heavily hit, so on the overall balance, we should still be okay, hopefully. The ring got pretty trashed too, and looks kinda shitty now, tbh.

Thoughts on PTR :
- Leg belt is still broken with Crusade, everyone go cry on US forums or something.
- 4P is nice, a buff to know when your next generator is going to generate double would be nicer, wasting HP is a bit annoying
- The Guldan trinket is absurdly powerful, and was doing around 5M damage per use (with 15stacks of crusade). Will probably be nerfed.
- The trinket reducing Crusade CD was putting my Crusade at roughly 1:30 to 1:40m cooldown, which is definitely good, but makes having another on-use trinket pretty pointless. Very strong on long fights, not so much for 3min kills.
- The new leg shoulders feel pretty clunky, and having to use WoA mid Crusade is weird.

All thing considered, I think we're still at a loss and that the cape nerf is a bit too much. Either bring it back up a bit, or increase the overall %damage increase, idk. It's not completely panic mode, but we're a bit lower than live, sadly. We still have some iterations to go for some more buffs, at least.

[Deleted]

Is the trinketlist still up to date?

[Poundcake]

PTR changelog, yay.

So, blessing of might have been removed, and we got a 12% flat damage increase. Okay. I went and checked my might damage from this and last weeks farm kills, and might is consistently between 8 and 10% of my damage (it's 10% of my damage on Xavius, where I might a SP doing a truckload of damage, so quite an unusual case).
I'll take might as 9% damage, as an overall value.
The buff does compensate for it, and we have a rough 3% on top of it. I'm okay with it, removing blessing is nice, counting on others to do well was a bit annoying. It does however mean that Swarming Plaguehive and Aran's Relaxing Ruby are no longer viable options for us, as it was the only thing proccing them (aside from WoA).

Went on the PTR to try and test stuff around, but you can't copy characters atm, and my PTR char only has 4pT19, so it's pretty hard to compare vs a live log.
Anyway, cape is getting shafted harder than I was expecting, I was banking on a 5% nerf rather than 10%. But then again, all good legendaries are getting pretty heavily hit, so on the overall balance, we should still be okay, hopefully. The ring got pretty trashed too, and looks kinda shitty now, tbh.

Thoughts on PTR :
- Leg belt is still broken with Crusade, everyone go cry on US forums or something.
- 4P is nice, a buff to know when your next generator is going to generate double would be nicer, wasting HP is a bit annoying
- The Guldan trinket is absurdly powerful, and was doing around 5M damage per use (with 15stacks of crusade). Will probably be nerfed.
- The trinket reducing Crusade CD was putting my Crusade at roughly 1:30 to 1:40m cooldown, which is definitely good, but makes having another on-use trinket pretty pointless. Very strong on long fights, not so much for 3min kills.
- The new leg shoulders feel pretty clunky, and having to use WoA mid Crusade is weird.

All thing considered, I think we're still at a loss and that the cape nerf is a bit too much. Either bring it back up a bit, or increase the overall %damage increase, idk. It's not completely panic mode, but we're a bit lower than live, sadly. We still have some iterations to go for some more buffs, at least.

For those of us without the cloak this is great.