[7.0 Retribution Paladin] Guide and Discussion

[OrcsRLame]

So, I've been doing some simming, and Deliver the Justice is crazy strong now. It's only slightly weaker than Wrath of the Ashbringer. It's worth about 18 relic ilvl.

So it seems we have another trait that is pretty damn competitive. At least for my character. Your results may vary of course.

[Reith]

So I just got an 890 judgment holy relic. I'm assuming it's better than an 860 AW relic generally?

[Ryuji]

So I just got an 890 judgment holy relic. I'm assuming it's better than an 860 AW relic generally?

~25 item levels on the relic for WotA, though Idunno if that's still the case.

[Reith]

~25 item levels on the relic for WotA, though Idunno if that's still the case.

It's a tough choice because that's the worst "dps trait" but it's 890 so.. yeah.

[elvor0]

So, I've been doing some simming, and Deliver the Justice is crazy strong now. It's only slightly weaker than Wrath of the Ashbringer. It's worth about 18 relic ilvl.

So it seems we have another trait that is pretty damn competitive. At least for my character. Your results may vary of course.

Was actually just about to ask if we had any info on that. I got a 895 Deliver the Justice last night, thought it would've been boosted by our new 4 trait but wasn't sure how much, I mean with our t20 4pc making Hammers/BoJ even stronger, wont DtJ overtake WoTA, surely? 18 on DtJ vs 22 on WoTA isn't a huge difference and the 4pc is bound to make DtJ even stronger.

[OrcsRLame]

Was actually just about to ask if we had any info on that. I got a 895 Deliver the Justice last night, thought it would've been boosted by our new 4 trait but wasn't sure how much, I mean with our t20 4pc making Hammers/BoJ even stronger, wont DtJ overtake WoTA, surely? 18 on DtJ vs 22 on WoTA isn't a huge difference and the 4pc is bound to make DtJ even stronger.

That's a very good point imo.

Really, what it will mean is we'll have two very competitive relic choices. At that point you'll probably just go with whatever is higher ilvl.

[Anardel]

~25 item levels on the relic for WotA, though Idunno if that's still the case.

I think using the 890 relic is worthy. We tend to look at the artifact trait only, but not at the weapon ilvl upgrade which improves all your attacks, from white autoattacks to TV.
30 ilvls are a lot in my opinion. More strenght, more stamina, more weapon dmg....

[Reith]

Judge Unworthy is really good. It's basically instantaneous spreading of judgment to all enemies within 8-9 yards of any enemy affected by your judgment. Even single target attacks proc the chance on all judgment debuffs simultaneously, though individually. So if you have two, and single target attack once, you could get 0-2 additional targets with judgment. You have to be really unlucky if you're using divine hammer for it to not spread within 1 second.

Also, my dilemma with the relic is made further more complicated by my acquisition of Chain of Thrayn, ahhhh

[Kobor]

Yesterday got a 915 Titanforged WotA from the 2nd Shard roll, got boosted my Weapon item level with a huge amount, from 901 to 919.
I think worth to invest there if not have a great relic set.

[Xenocidic]

So I just got my 10th legendary, and all I have left under ret is Liadrins/Kiljaden/prydaz. Does anyone know what happens when you get to that point? Will i randomly get them from prot/holy if i keep my loot spec set? Gonna tweet them also. At 56 days played with around 1000 M+ and most raids cleared each week, for those curious. I've gotten one per week since the patch.

[Deleted]

Recently on reddit someone posted a GM respond, saying that you won't get any other legenndaries with that loot spec.
http://i.imgur.com/QAK3V64.png
If you want prot/holy legies you have to swap then, unless something gets changed.

[RGeneral24]

But does you bad luck protection increase even at 10 legendaries?

If so it is better to stay in ret when I get my 10th and after a couple of weeks use all my relinquished tokens for the prot pants. This way I dont have to gamble for bad OS legendaries and will target the ones I really want.

Too bad you have to have 10 already in your MS.

[Reith]

But does you bad luck protection increase even at 10 legendaries?

If so it is better to stay in ret when I get my 10th and after a couple of weeks use all my relinquished tokens for the prot pants. This way I dont have to gamble for bad OS legendaries and will target the ones I really want.

Too bad you have to have 10 already in your MS.

Yeah, you still get higher chance every time you don't get a legendary.

[Xenocidic]

18 hours later i get prydaz. 4 in this patch alone. Is anyone else seeing this kind of luck? I have only done about 50 m+ plus raids

[dnicks17]

Grievous makes me feel like I actually have some utility.

Did a little over 100M healing in a 26 minute +11 Lower Kara.

Finally there's something that makes Word of Glory useful. Popping out a quick 1M crit heal on everyone got us out of a few tough spots.

[Tyze]

Guys. My stat weights keeps changing. Simcraft said Crit over haste so I enchanted everything with Crit. Now it says haste.

What should I do xD

Also, what personal food should I use?

[Deleted]

Guys. My stat weights keeps changing. Simcraft said Crit over haste so I enchanted everything with Crit. Now it says haste.

What should I do xD

Also, what personal food should I use?

First of all: How much haste do you currently have?

Stats interact with each other, therefore stat weigths change based on the stats you have. So every change (may it be an item or just an enchant) change them.
Very simplified example:
you accumulate a large amount of crit, let's say 30%, and you have 0% vers.
400 Crit (1% crit chance) would now only increase your damage by 0,7%, as 30% of your damage already crits. 400 points versatility would increase your damage by 0,84% and therefore be better.
If you now change your entire gear to vers. You would now have ~21% vers and 5% crit. 400 crit would now be a 0,95% increase, while 400 vers would only get you a 0,66% increase.
Obviously, this example is unrealistic, but it shows your problem:
By doing a larger change, replacing every gem and enchant, the value of Crit didn't increased by as much as Haste did.
Simcraft has an option (plots) to show which shows the impact on your dps if you add or subtract 1000 points of each rating. But it's something that need to be interpreted correctly to be useful.

That is why it is recommended to sim your Character regularly (whenever you get new pieces, ideally, but this isn't necessary. You could do it every time you swap multiple pieces, or items which large budgets in secondaries, like chest, legs or rings).

What you could do now, would be to sim your char with both settings (all enchants/gems on haste or crit respectively) and go which of those two yields you the theoretically better result.
To my knowledge most Paladins get at least 20-23% haste (maybe even more if they're more comfortable with it) and bump their crit afterwards. The legendary cloak and Tier set also impact the vlaue of haste.

As for food:
Feasts now grant 500 strength, so if available use that buff. Otherwise I'd recommend using the stat that has the highest value according to your latest sim.

[Tyze]

First of all: How much haste do you currently have?

Stats interact with each other, therefore stat weigths change based on the stats you have. So every change (may it be an item or just an enchant) change them.
Very simplified example:
you accumulate a large amount of crit, let's say 30%, and you have 0% vers.
400 Crit (1% crit chance) would now only increase your damage by 0,7%, as 30% of your damage already crits. 400 points versatility would increase your damage by 0,84% and therefore be better.
If you now change your entire gear to vers. You would now have ~21% vers and 5% crit. 400 crit would now be a 0,95% increase, while 400 vers would only get you a 0,66% increase.
Obviously, this example is unrealistic, but it shows your problem:
By doing a larger change, replacing every gem and enchant, the value of Crit didn't increased by as much as Haste did.
Simcraft has an option (plots) to show which shows the impact on your dps if you add or subtract 1000 points of each rating. But it's something that need to be interpreted correctly to be useful.

That is why it is recommended to sim your Character regularly (whenever you get new pieces, ideally, but this isn't necessary. You could do it every time you swap multiple pieces, or items which large budgets in secondaries, like chest, legs or rings).

What you could do now, would be to sim your char with both settings (all enchants/gems on haste or crit respectively) and go which of those two yields you the theoretically better result.
To my knowledge most Paladins get at least 20-23% haste (maybe even more if they're more comfortable with it) and bump their crit afterwards. The legendary cloak and Tier set also impact the vlaue of haste.

As for food:
Feasts now grant 500 strength, so if available use that buff. Otherwise I'd recommend using the stat that has the highest value according to your latest sim.

Couldn't ask for a better answer. Thank you!

[Kuriyama]

Is our gearing for ToS set in stone yet? I've seen mentions of using 2 piece T19 with 4 piece T20, which basically means we can't use the legendary cloak. I'm running belt/cloak and I just got my 4th leggo today.....shoulders, while my 3rd was bracers. I understand people have been saying belt/ring would be better because you can then use all the tier slots.

Is this really the case?

[Haul]

Is our gearing for ToS set in stone yet? I've seen mentions of using 2 piece T19 with 4 piece T20, which basically means we can't use the legendary cloak. I'm running belt/cloak and I just got my 4th leggo today.....shoulders, while my 3rd was bracers. I understand people have been saying belt/ring would be better because you can then use all the tier slots.

Is this really the case?

It is impossible to say right now as item levels are not yet set in stone and we don't know what changes we will see, but it is a strong possibility. For many people, using 4pc T19 + 2pc chest/shoulder + ring is already better than using the cloak.