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  1. #21
    Thanks for the guide.
    Actually you wrote exactly what is my convern:

    Justicar's Vengeance is clearly the choice when paired with T7 Talent Divine Purpose and/or you can cheese some stunable adds. You should consume Divine Purpose proccs with Justicar's Vengeance since it deals a bit more damage than TV does.
    In the end JV costs 5 HP instead of TV 3 HP but does only minimal more damage ( although it is clear we will never pay the 5HP due to DP proccs) . From PvE POV the 100% more damage to a stunned target can be neglected.
    So actually why consider this talent over TV when you can do TV and get EfaE instead?

    In the end I expec it to do more damage baseline, maybe reducing the additional damage to stunned to 50% and increase the base damage of JV accordingly to result in the same stun damage.

    E.g. if 3 HP for TV is ~50k Damage at my damage, 5 HP should be ~ 75k damage. Then +50% is still around 100k damage to keep same ratio.... .

  2. #22
    Dreadlord Teleros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shakeez View Post
    So actually why consider this talent over TV when you can do TV and get EfaE instead?
    1. With a Divine Purpose proc, the cost is irrelevant.
    2. Eye for an Eye only works against Physical damage, which you're very unlikely to encounter in PvE as Ret most of the time, unless solo'ing. Well, unless you pulled aggro of course :P .

  3. #23
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euroguy View Post
    Just how good is Ret in raiding right now? In terms of singletarget, aoe, cleave etc. I know the gameplay is rather dull but does it work? Ever feel irritated?
    I'm debating on Warrior and Paladin, I've mained Warrior for a while now, but I don't like having two specs and Fury being the superior right now is veery spammy.
    As you can see here, the spec is functional. It's even more spammy than fury though ;-)

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    1. With a Divine Purpose proc, the cost is irrelevant.
    2. Eye for an Eye only works against Physical damage, which you're very unlikely to encounter in PvE as Ret most of the time, unless solo'ing. Well, unless you pulled aggro of course :P .
    Hi,

    Yes cost is irrelevant, but actually right now JV is also irrelevant in PvE since it does only marginally more damage then TV. Honestly I see no reason using it in a raid. When outbalancing the numbers here it would keep same use in PvP but also provide a real value in PvE.

  5. #25
    The Undying Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Migrin View Post
    As you can see here, the spec is functional. It's even more spammy than fury though ;-)
    Take what Noxxic says with a big grain of salt.
    #TeamLegion

    Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! My Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeluron

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Migrin View Post
    As you can see here, the spec is functional. It's even more spammy than fury though ;-)

    Wow this.. What?

  7. #27
    Thanks for getting the ball rolling OP! Would like to see what people are using for trinkets until Expansion hits. I know EDH took a big whoppin' hit. I see OP is using Skull of War. I am kind of caught with what I have (M EDH, H LoV, M DC, Gronntooth War Horn).

    Has anyone done any ranking of current trinkets for 7.0.3?

  8. #28
    Epic! marinos's Avatar
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    Ah Noxxic being Noxxic as always

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakeez View Post
    From PvE POV the 100% more damage to a stunned target can be neglected.
    So actually why consider this talent over TV when you can do TV and get EfaE instead?
    There are various fights where adds and sometimes even the boss can be stunned, so saying you will never get the bonus isn't quite right (don't forget that wake of ashes is an aoe stun to demons/undead on a fairly short CD).

    You are also ignoring that JV does a sizable amount of healing.

  10. #30
    Field Marshal Leyru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aggranger View Post
    Thanks for getting the ball rolling OP! Would like to see what people are using for trinkets until Expansion hits. I know EDH took a big whoppin' hit. I see OP is using Skull of War. I am kind of caught with what I have (M EDH, H LoV, M DC, Gronntooth War Horn).

    Has anyone done any ranking of current trinkets for 7.0.3?
    Hey yeah Skull of War 6/6 has the best results unless you get the Chipped-Soul Kazzak thingy with some extra upgrades. The 6/6 Skull is like 25k on my Server. I have been simming with M(+haste gem) EDH, M DC, Heirloom and M (wf) UH; here are the results:

    M LoV & SoW 6/6: 94436 dps
    M LoV & M socket EDH: 89758 dps
    M LoV & Heirloom(vs demon): 89031 dps
    M LoV & M wf UH: 88803 dps
    M LoV & M DC: 87106 dps

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Lunavale View Post
    There are various fights where adds and sometimes even the boss can be stunned, so saying you will never get the bonus isn't quite right (don't forget that wake of ashes is an aoe stun to demons/undead on a fairly short CD).

    You are also ignoring that JV does a sizable amount of healing.
    I am not ignoring, but actually healing in raids is job of healers. You also don't consider items with lifesteal over warforged because they heal you, don't you.
    This is a nice benefit what is ok but for sure nothing what I would pick a talent for when this is merely the only good thing about it.

    In actualy content I do not see any boss which can be stunned, dont know about legion bosses. But past 10 years of wow show that in Raids # of stunnable bosses is neglectable. WoA is a good argument, nevertheless my proposal would bring more usability for more situations ( and not only special ones) and will improve overall damage.

    Right now even on 110 according to people damage is lower than average and far from the top and if you see e.g. how the Ignite for fire mages works you see what numbers and synergies are possible. Ret is far from this.

    I just give this an idea what would bring benefit. You don't have to like it

  12. #32
    Dreadlord Teleros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shakeez View Post
    Yes cost is irrelevant, but actually right now JV is also irrelevant in PvE since it does only marginally more damage then TV. Honestly I see no reason using it in a raid. When outbalancing the numbers here it would keep same use in PvP but also provide a real value in PvE.
    It depends on your gear - JV is based on AP, TV on weapon damage.

    At the moment though, my tooltip says JV does ~5k more damage than the top end TV damage (59.4k vs 54.4k), which works out as about 9% more damage. That's not a trivial difference, especially when TV has a range of damage.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avenging Wrath View Post
    itz designed pvp- or burst-talent, timed well quality improvement to burst. pve ES is dps-loss in comparison to FV due to diverging J cd.
    ES feels disruptive in pve rota, even if animation <3
    I understand that reasoning and later realised during my hours of rotation testing that I'm still playing with that exact mentality from years and years ago. (I'm reaching my own 10 year anniversary with the game)

    And yeah, it is for burst n'all. In fact as said, it usually attributes to a better opener as well but quickly loses it's median dmg to the other and falls off/lower in a matter of a minute or 2.

    What really irks me and made me say that it needs a rework though, is that it's in the default talent tree. For PvP, you'll be using the honor talents later AFAIK.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, Crusade after trying it, just doesn't seem to work with the stack rolling. @IF area with it's minute lag difference with raid instances.

    So DP, seems to be the only real choice. Overall, just as OP said. There isn't really anything much to swap out in the talent tree other than 2 rows when AoEing.

  14. #34
    With Greater Blessing of Might I've noticed that multiple stacks of it can go on one person. Does anyone know if it's best to have them stacked up on the higher dps or to spread it out? I'm not entirely sure if it gives 3 separate instances of the buff or if it's just an oversight on blizzards part.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Crypto1723 View Post
    With Greater Blessing of Might I've noticed that multiple stacks of it can go on one person. Does anyone know if it's best to have them stacked up on the higher dps or to spread it out? I'm not entirely sure if it gives 3 separate instances of the buff or if it's just an oversight on blizzards part.
    For raids, 3 blessing of might on your top DPS is likely preferable in my opinion. It's not a bug, you just can't have more than 3 blessings up at any one time, regardless of which blessings they are. I did notice that you can buff as many NPC's as you like and still buff players.

  16. #36
    in the end I would say Crusade is the 100 talent to go when raiding in Legion. But it is not viable without WoA, so when pooling 5 HP, starting Crusade, 2x TV ( with 1x CS ) brings you already 6 stacks, with WoA instant +5 HP you can repeat it and then you have 12 of 15 stacks pretty fast. Still you have to beat 35% dmg flat, I rather see 4-5% rather than 3,5 to make it really viable. The extention of 7,5% of AW/C in the Artifact also will help here, but until then you have to stick to DP/JC.

    Still interesting to see what happens when you drop T18-2P bonus. This in WoD makaes Ret viable, before that he is hardly mentioned in skada.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Take what Noxxic says with a big grain of salt.
    Absolutely. But its good enough to show tendencies.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Migrin View Post
    Absolutely. But its good enough to show tendencies.
    "Noxxic DPS Rankings (7.0.3 rankings coming soon)" <- This is on top of the site.. those rankings haven't been updated and still show the values of 6.2.3

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shakeez View Post
    in the end I would say Crusade is the 100 talent to go when raiding in Legion. But it is not viable without WoA
    Pretty much that. When simming with about 855 ilvl at Level 110; Crusade starts getting some serious value. Especially if you combine that gear with Artifact traits. It will pull ahead pretty fast in Legion unless the balance changes say no (maybe DP gets buffed; Crusade nerfed w/e).

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakeez View Post
    in the end I would say Crusade is the 100 talent to go when raiding in Legion. But it is not viable without WoA, so when pooling 5 HP, starting Crusade, 2x TV ( with 1x CS ) brings you already 6 stacks, with WoA instant +5 HP you can repeat it and then you have 12 of 15 stacks pretty fast. Still you have to beat 35% dmg flat, I rather see 4-5% rather than 3,5 to make it really viable. The extention of 7,5% of AW/C in the Artifact also will help here, but until then you have to stick to DP/JC.

    Still interesting to see what happens when you drop T18-2P bonus. This in WoD makaes Ret viable, before that he is hardly mentioned in skada.
    You can get Crusade stacks faster by pooling to 5, JV, Wake of Ashes with Ashes to Ashes for 5 HP, JV again. 10 Crusade stacks in 3 globals.

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