1. #4461
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulthane View Post
    Question: Why does Chain + Liadrins rank higher than Chain + Highlords ring? Wouldn't Crusade + Divine Purpose be a gain or is there something I am missing in regard to Liadrins?
    Secondary stats and the extra holy power helps when you're not getting lots of BoW procs. Soul has higher peaks though, and is better for AOE in general.

  2. #4462
    Any more changes down the line to make ret more competent? Or have Blizzard said "nah fuck it, let's buff other classes instead".

  3. #4463
    The Lightbringer Storm the Sorrow's Avatar
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    Retribution is balance.
    Why would you ask for more changes.
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  4. #4464
    Quote Originally Posted by Fargus View Post
    Any more changes down the line to make ret more competent? Or have Blizzard said "nah fuck it, let's buff other classes instead".
    Not recently. Even if the recent Cons buff hasn't been implemented on the tooltip, it's still only on par with live, so all we have is the small buff to all damage abilities, a slightly bigger buff for Divine Hammer and Execution Sentence, the 0.5 second decrease on AW traits and that's it. Justicar's Vengeance looks to be one of the least affected, which is kind-of a shame for a 5 HP ability that isn't affected by echos..

  5. #4465
    I'm getting the following stat weights when I sim myself:

    Crit=23.65
    Vers=22.87
    Str=18.90
    Mastery=16.66
    Haste=15.13

    Does it make any sense at all that haste is my lowest stat even behind mastery. Should I just ignore what the sim is telling me and stick with haste>all?

  6. #4466
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulthane View Post
    Question: Why does Chain + Liadrins rank higher than Chain + Highlords ring? Wouldn't Crusade + Divine Purpose be a gain or is there something I am missing in regard to Liadrins?
    Of course Crusade + Divine Purpose is a gain - Chain+Highlord's is still great! It's just not quite as good as Chain+Liadrin's because Chain and Liadrin's both specifically boost Crusade and therefore have a sort of multiplicative effect when paired together, while Highlord's gives you smoothed-out value.

    Quote Originally Posted by lusciifi View Post
    Should I just ignore what the sim is telling me and stick with haste>all?
    No, why would you? Haste is not > all.

  7. #4467
    Well I thought the general consensus was that mastery was by far our worst stat so its surprising to see it not in last. I know that haste can sometimes be a volatile stat and fluctuates greatly with small changes in the amount you currently have. Are others rets seeing the same thing around 28% haste?

  8. #4468
    Quote Originally Posted by lusciifi View Post
    Well I thought the general consensus was that mastery was by far our worst stat so its surprising to see it not in last. I know that haste can sometimes be a volatile stat and fluctuates greatly with small changes in the amount you currently have. Are others rets seeing the same thing around 28% haste?
    It'll go up again around 30-31% then it'll go back down a bit. It's fairly typical.

  9. #4469
    Quote Originally Posted by lusciifi View Post
    Well I thought the general consensus was that mastery was by far our worst stat so its surprising to see it not in last. I know that haste can sometimes be a volatile stat and fluctuates greatly with small changes in the amount you currently have. Are others rets seeing the same thing around 28% haste?
    Mastery is generally the worst, not necessarily always. And the values of the stats vary a lot and very rapidly as your stats change.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanyali View Post
    Well, I want the freedom to put poison in food and sell it to anyone I want and call it sugar. It's my freedom to do so, so you can't tell me no.

  10. #4470
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulthane View Post
    Question: Why does Chain + Liadrins rank higher than Chain + Highlords ring? Wouldn't Crusade + Divine Purpose be a gain or is there something I am missing in regard to Liadrins?
    The thing is that Highlord's is not that high on secondary stats and it has Mastery on it. The sims also take into account ideal use of the Liadrin's HP generation which is not realistic as you will prolly waste few of them during crusade which brings the value of the ring down, as opposed to a DP proc which has a 8 sec window to be used and is (almost) never wasted.

    Personally I prefer Highlord's over Liadrin's.

    Also, with the 7.3 changes:
    - buffing of mastery
    - nerfing crusade (WotA) length

    Liadrin's will lose more of its value while Highlord's will gain value, meaning it has the potential to become BiS (if you take into account the nerft to the belt 55% additional damage VS the current 59% additional dmg during crusade), the new BiS combo might turn out to be Back + Highlord's.

  11. #4471
    I think the nerf to Crusade's duration is because with Netherlight Crucible we are going to take WotA traits so globally the duration will be the same as on Live now. Without the nerf and the Netherlight Crucible our Crusade will remain like 40 seconds xD

  12. #4472
    Quote Originally Posted by Anardel View Post
    I think the nerf to Crusade's duration is because with Netherlight Crucible we are going to take WotA traits so globally the duration will be the same as on Live now. Without the nerf and the Netherlight Crucible our Crusade will remain like 40 seconds xD
    The Crucible does not work that way...

    If you have a WoTA trait on a Relic, it will not give you WoTA again in the Crucible...


    Madness will consume you!!!

  13. #4473
    I don't think we will receive any more buffs until 7.3.5 (maybe small hotfix changes) but seeing how blizz treats ret I don't have any expectations anymore, we have bubble, more dmg (or fluid gameplay) would be to op. Sad thing is my Arms 909 without bis legos is doing similar stable dmg, to be expected since they don't have burst, than my 931, it feels more fun and less punishing than Holy Power juggling with no mobility but still I'm ret in heart and will never switch main, I rather stop playing.

  14. #4474
    Quote Originally Posted by Anardel View Post
    I think the nerf to Crusade's duration is because with Netherlight Crucible we are going to take WotA traits so globally the duration will be the same as on Live now. Without the nerf and the Netherlight Crucible our Crusade will remain like 40 seconds xD
    No. Your crusade will be 34 seconds tops now.

    Every rank lost 0.5 seconds = 2.5 seconds with 7 ranks.

    The crucible does not allow you to have 2 of the same traits on the same relic. It simply makes it easier for you to have a specific one in every one of your 3 relics.
    So, crusade will still be 34 seconds, but you will get some extra relic traits like BoJ/DH damage increase traits or DS/TV damage increase traits (or the CS crit i guess).


    I am waiting for the theorycrafters to say something, but i would'nt be surprised if cloak and highlord become the best legendaries. Chain got nerfed. The damage increase is now additive instead of multiplicative.
    Last edited by Nemmar; 2017-08-19 at 01:36 PM.

  15. #4475
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemmar View Post
    No. Your crusade will be 34 seconds tops now.

    Every rank lost 0.5 seconds = 2.5 seconds with 7 ranks.

    The crucible does not allow you to have 2 of the same traits on the same relic. It simply makes it easier for you to have a specific one in every one of your 3 relics.
    So, crusade will still be 34 seconds, but you will get some extra relic traits like BoJ/DH damage increase traits or DS/TV damage increase traits (or the CS crit i guess).


    I am waiting for the theorycrafters to say something, but i would be surprised if cloak and highlord become the best legendaries. Chain got nerfed. The damage increase is now additive instead of multiplicative.
    That's so dumb. Obviously they did it because "too many people are using Chain," but they forego the reason. The reason being that T20+T19 is too good not to use Chain. If I get Highlord and a decent tier 20 chest, I'll probably end up using Cloak+Highlord in 7.3. My off-piece shoulders would be better then as well.

  16. #4476
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    They nerfed Chain?..
    What in the feth?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Well, atleast it can't be as severe as storm eye helm and ayala nerfs for warriors.
    I hope.
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  17. #4477
    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    They nerfed Chain?..
    What in the feth?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Well, atleast it can't be as severe as storm eye helm and ayala nerfs for warriors.
    I hope.
    Chain will still be a decent legendary, i think. With that said, this is just based on what i heard and saw and no one has posted any hard sims about all this. I dunno... maybe Solsacra is on vacation. :P

  18. #4478
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    "too many people are using" is next to the most dumbest reason to nerf.
    When people are using something, one should look for the reason why.
    It might well be because other options are shite.
    Reminds of crusade nerf.
    Huh.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Take a look at tier 15. Everyone uses Final Verdict. Yet they aren't nerfing it, they are buffing, admittedly pathetically, two other choices.
    There seems to be some inconsistentsy with their approach to balancing stuff.
    No, ofcourse they are not incompetent. There must be a reason.
    Be wary of the ones who yell: "Off with the satire!", for trash is always displeased with the broom.

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  19. #4479
    Quote Originally Posted by killwithpwr View Post
    The Crucible does not work that way...

    If you have a WoTA trait on a Relic, it will not give you WoTA again in the Crucible...
    Oh sorry, I got confused then ^^u

    Thanks for clarification.

  20. #4480
    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    Take a look at tier 15. Everyone uses Final Verdict. Yet they aren't nerfing it, they are buffing, admittedly pathetically, two other choices.
    There seems to be some inconsistentsy with their approach to balancing stuff.
    No, ofcourse they are not incompetent. There must be a reason.
    Consecration has gotten no buff so far, only Execution Sentence, which is an OK increase. We'll have to see how that one actually plays out, whether it's worth the extra effort to use or not on pure single target fights.

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