[7.0 Retribution Paladin] Guide and Discussion

[deadmau]

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#5 Rotation / Priority list

You always want to cast your finisher when Judgment is up on your target.

The default Priority list should look like this:

Priority	Ability name	Condition
1	Judgment	Keep Judgment on cooldown @4+ Holy Power and/or DP procs.***
2	Templar's Verdict	Cast Templar's Verdict with Judgment up and @5 Holy Power.
3	Crusader Strike/Zeal	Cast Crusader Strike or Zeal if @2 charges. Generates 1 Holy Power.
4	Blade of Justice	Cast Blade of Justice/T4 talent @3 or less Holy Power. Generates 2 Holy Power.
5	The Fires of Justice	Cast the Fires of Justice Crusader Strike if @2 charges. Generates 1 Holy Power.
6	Templar's Verdict	Cast with Judgment up and @4 Holy Power or to spend a Fires of Justice proc regardless of your current Holy Power.
7	Consecration	Cast Consecration if talented.
8	Crusader Strike/Zeal	Cast Crusader Strike or Zeal if @1 charge. Generates 1 Holy Power.
9	Blinding Light	Cast Blinding Light if talented and there is nothing else to cast.
10	Templar's Verdict	Cast with Judgment up and @3 Holy Power when there is nothing else to cast.

Divine Purpose priority:

Priority	Ability name	Condition
1	Judgment	Keep Judgment on cooldown @4+ Holy Power and/or DP procs.***
2	Justicar's Vengeance	Cast Justicar's Vengeance @5 Holy Power with Divine Purpose proc and Judgment up. Or if DP is about to fade.
3	Templar's Verdict	Cast Templar's Verdict with Judgment up and @5 Holy Power.
4	Crusader Strike/Zeal	Cast Crusader Strike or Zeal if @2 charges. Generates 1 Holy Power.
5	Blade of Justice	Cast Blade of Justice/T4 talent @3 or less Holy Power. Generates 2 Holy Power.
6	The Fires of Justice	Cast the Fires of Justice Crusader Strike if @2 charges. Generates 1 Holy Power.
7	Justicar's Vengeance	Cast Justicar's Vengeance with Divine Purpose proc and Judgment up. Higher priority than spending last charge of CS/Zeal.
8	Templar's Verdict	Cast with Judgment up and @4 Holy Power or to spend a Fires of Justice proc regardless of your current Holy Power.
9	Consecration	Cast Consecration if talented.
10	Crusader Strike/Zeal	Cast Crusader Strike or Zeal if @1 charge. Generates 1 Holy Power.
11	Blinding Light	Cast Blinding Light if talented and there is nothing else to cast.
12	Templar's Verdict	Cast with Judgment up and @3 Holy Power when there is nothing else to cast.

***Note that the Judgment cooldown is pretty much the same as it's duration when you are sitting at about 30% Haste(1 GCD between). Simply use Judgment on cooldown if you reach that breakpoint. 100% Judgment should be at around 50% haste.


For multiple target scenarios simply replace Templar's Verdict with Divine Storm @3 or more; Divine Hammer outvalues BoJ/BoW @ 2+ targets and Greater Judgment starts working with 4 or more targets to hit. However this does not occur when hitting multiple targets for a few seconds - You have to be consistenly hitting the amount of targets mentioned for the different talents/scenarios.

Not understanding why [5] Blade of Justice/Blade of Wrath @3 Holy Power would be higher priority than [6] Fires of Justice CrusaderStrike @2 charges?

Shouldn't [4] Crusader Strike @2 Charges and [6] Fires of Justice CrusaderStrike@2 charges both be higher than [5] Blade of Justice/Blade of Wrath @3 Holy Power?

Tad confused on this part, any clarification would be great.

[Snowfunk]

I did use it for a few heroic bosses.

Xavius: 5.39M - 3.71% of my damage
Cenarius: 4.73M - 4.10% of my damage
Il'gynoth - 2.22M - 2.73% of my damage

Doesn't strike me as any particularly exciting numbers.
I however can't say how those would compare to a static trinket like Hunger of the Pack for example.

[Deleted]

An 880 plaguehive is easily one of the top 3 trinkets next to FCM and arcano crystal. I've seen conflicting sims on if it is actually better than arcano crystal (most likely it depends on gear), but considering it is substantially easier to get assuming you have a decent raid group, I'd say it's pretty much bis.

It is also still proccing in 7.1 even without BoW being holy dmg, although I don't actually know if it's proccing less and thus has less value. Some cursory tests showed that it was fine however.

Not sure but maybe TV is proccing it, I can't test it myself since i don't have it but i do know that TV gets locked out when you get counter spelled so it might be counted as a spell.

Kinda like judgement used to be in wrath i think it was a ranged melee attack that couldn't be blocked or parried and procced spel effects or something like that was many years ago and don't remember the specifics

[Deleted]

Have to admit i had my funniest time in bgs this week call to arms for a very long time specially when i popped vengeance and rushed to bomb 2 ranged with holy wrath and returned to the melee group to stun - one shot a war followed by one more melee that died during wings. If only legendary wrists worked in there would be godlike for casual pvp.

[Shizzy]

I got a 865 Plaguehive this week. Replaced my 850 Alch stone. According to the sim, it should have been a ~4k dps upgrade. After equipping it and running my own sim, it was a ~1k dps downgrade. So one of the two is wrong. Also the haste gained from the Plaguehive was definitely not wasted. Without it I am at 17% haste, with it 20% haste.

I say trust your sims. It might be a dps loss for you but in general it will be a dps increase for most ret paladins. This is simcraft working as intended by the way, it's telling you to not equip it because it will be a dps loss.

Unless you mean your sim told you that you would be doing 4k more and did 1k less on the dummy? in which case I think had nothing to do with Sims and everything to do with rotation.

[Deleted]

Not sure but maybe TV is proccing it, I can't test it myself since i don't have it but i do know that TV gets locked out when you get counter spelled so it might be counted as a spell.

Kinda like judgement used to be in wrath i think it was a ranged melee attack that couldn't be blocked or parried and procced spel effects or something like that was many years ago and don't remember the specifics

The Judgment proc is enough for it to proc often. It never procced on BoW or its dot.

[Snowfunk]

The Judgment proc is enough for it to proc often. It never procced on BoW or its dot.

Yes, it should.
But It is certainly not always optimal to keep BoM on yourself.

[Hinky]

With Divine tempest and 1/3 Righteous Blade my Divine Storm is now up to 127k damage and my Templar's Verdict is at 237k on their tooltips. Can anyone explain to me why I shouldn't be casting DS on 2 targets as all guides just seem to have "DS at 3+ targets" and nothing more said about it.

[Floross]

With Divine tempest and 1/3 Righteous Blade my Divine Storm is now up to 127k damage and my Templar's Verdict is at 237k on their tooltips. Can anyone explain to me why I shouldn't be casting DS on 2 targets as all guides just seem to have "DS at 3+ targets" and nothing more said about it.

You should.

[Deleted]

With Divine tempest and 1/3 Righteous Blade my Divine Storm is now up to 127k damage and my Templar's Verdict is at 237k on their tooltips. Can anyone explain to me why I shouldn't be casting DS on 2 targets as all guides just seem to have "DS at 3+ targets" and nothing more said about it.

Only if one target has to die more urgently than the other. Other than that, use DS for two target cleave as soon as it's doing more than 50% of a TV (assuming you have Judgment on both targets).

[Ryuji]

This was probably discussed a while ago but I've always BoM'd myself and two others. Is it more optimal to BoM 3 others even if one of them does less DPS than how you'd normally push(ignoring BoM's contribution in logs)?

[Chaosinciter]

This was probably discussed a while ago but I've always BoM'd myself and two others. Is it more optimal to BoM 3 others even if one of them does less DPS than how you'd normally push(ignoring BoM's contribution in logs)?

BoM three highest. So if you are apart of those 3 then its you and 2 others, if you are not then put BoM on the others higher than yourself. Least that's what i've been doing

[Ryuji]

BoM three highest. So if you are apart of those 3 then its you and 2 others, if you are not then put BoM on the others higher than yourself. Least that's what i've been doing

Yeah I'm usually in top 3, will keep doing that then.

[OrcsRLame]

Only if one target has to die more urgently than the other. Other than that, use DS for two target cleave as soon as it's doing more than 50% of a TV (assuming you have Judgment on both targets).

By the way, really off the wall question for you. 4/4 Righteous Blade with Divine Tempest. You're sitting at 3 Holy Power at 7 stacks of Crusade. You had to leave melee due to fuck and you're running back towards the boss. Judgment is on CD, the boss has Judgment on it and you're not yet in range of BoJ. Is it a dps gain to hit DS for the stacks and to not waste the GCD? Assume that DS will hit the boss due to DT.

[Floross]

2500 Str 1 Min potions vs Old War ?

[Piwielle]

2500 Str 1 Min potions vs Old War ?

A simulation of my character on an exactly one minute fight, one with the old war prepot, and the other one with forced +2500 strength gives me the following :



I might be incorrect, or have done something horribly wrong, though. Please wait for an actual theorycrafter to confirm before throwing around that old war is better, but I think it is.

[Deleted]

By the way, really off the wall question for you. 4/4 Righteous Blade with Divine Tempest. You're sitting at 3 Holy Power at 7 stacks of Crusade. You had to leave melee due to fuck and you're running back towards the boss. Judgment is on CD, the boss has Judgment on it and you're not yet in range of BoJ. Is it a dps gain to hit DS for the stacks and to not waste the GCD? Assume that DS will hit the boss due to DT.

There's only an 8 yard difference between the range of BoJ and Divine Tempest, and that's if you can judge 20 yards perfectly while on the move - I certainly can't. As such, I'd say no. It's a split second between knowing a DT will hit it and being able to use that BoJ.

[OrcsRLame]

There's only an 8 yard difference between the range of BoJ and Divine Tempest, and that's if you can judge 20 yards perfectly while on the move - I certainly can't. As such, I'd say no. It's a split second between knowing a DT will hit it and being able to use that BoJ.

So you're saying in general no, but if you can pull off the 360 no scope yes?

[Deleted]

So you're saying in general no, but if you can pull off the 360 no scope yes?

if you can pull that off you probably using an aim bot. If not that you should get a live and stop training CS like mad.

[OrcsRLame]

if you can pull that off you probably using an aim bot. If not that you should get a live and stop training CS like mad.

What can I say, I like to live on the edge lol. Even if something has only a 1% chance of working, if there's a possibility that it's more optimal, I will try for it. If there's a yolo play and a safe play, I will choose the yolo one every single time. Unless it's progression and we're at the difficult part of a boss fight. Then I play as standard as possible.