[7.0 Retribution Paladin] Guide and Discussion

[Jester Joe]

Seems our new legendary makes Divine Storm rotational for ST
Scarlet Inquisitor's Expurgation (New) Every 2 sec, gain 10% increased damage to your next Divine Storm, stacking up to 30 times.

Just imagine the AoE burst though with that too

[Jakerel]

People have been asking Blizzard for a way to use Divine Storm rotationally since after ICC?

And we've asked for a lot of other things that they haven't even given an inclination they would do it either. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for Divine Storm being a rotational ability, it is a incredibly visual and iconic ability (one of my favourites in fact). But if they are going to do it, then do it in a way delivers to the class as a whole, not through having to equip an item to do so.
I mean, ICC came to use 7 years ago (7 years, 5 months, 17 days to be precise). and it's taken them this long to come up with a way to do that, all the while the community has been asking for it since the end of Wrath?

So far, this expac to me, has been Blizzard telling the Ret Paladin community one thing, and doing another shortly after.

Going a little off course on this point, but the recent DoS change for Warriors almost strengthens that stance further. We got smashed with the nerf bat for CoF procs. Albeit, at the full original PPM it was proving a little insane. But a 70% drop is substantial to trinket option like that. Sure it pretty much made it required, but that was a time our trinket options weren't, and still aren't great outside of silly WF/TF procs on M+ items.

I love playing this class and spec, I have done pretty much 100% of my play time since making the switch the Ret back in early Ulduar. But I just can't for the life of me, deal with this air of uncertainty that presents with the dev team in regards to what they want and where they intend to take us. We had our time in the limelight back during our Wrath days, and a few select moments during Cata/MoP.

[Jester Joe]

I'd like it to be competitive; our legendaries are decent in performance but frankly they are freaking boring. I would assume it would be worth using in pure ST at fairly low stacks so you will have the option to let it build up a bit if you want the extra burst for something specific (and AoE burst at that).

It's probably the most interesting legendary we have overall now, since the rest are pretty much flat buffs to other spells/moves, but it appears as if other classes are getting similar style legendaries.

I am curious as to how good it will be overall, since I'm not sure on the number crunching side of things.

[Redblade]

Doubt it will be competitive with the other legendaries so no idea why people are so hyped up over it.

[Aribethe]

Doubt it will be competitive with the other legendaries so no idea why people are so hyped up over it.

It actually seems really good doing some napkin math. Just some fuzzy calcs, don't shoot me as I don't have time to do a details look. TV is ~1.7-1.8x a DS. The new Legendary is a 400% DS every minute. ~2,22-2.35x a TV. I cast ~17-18 TVs/minute. This is about a 7% increase in TV casts if you replace a TV with a DS. This is not accounting for good timing. It takes 60s to get a full 30 stack. So using it every 60s means we can ensure that 1/2 of them are at 15 stacks of Crusade. The cloak is a 15% increase in TV damage IF you get 100% uptime, which doesn't happen outside of wings. Its maybe 85% at best. It probably won't beat out the cloak in single target, but it would be competitive. The additional benefit is that the cloak loses value when you must disengage the boss or there are intermission phases. The new legendary is the opposite, its worth more in those cases, as it will continue to build stacks. I doubt it will be BiS single target, but I think it would be pretty good still. It will be really good in multitarget for sure and for M+ (swap them in for trash).

[Reith]

It occupies a tier slot and has mastery on it. It's actually a bit underwhelming, now that I really think about it. In terms of heroic I guess it could be okay for Spellblade, Tichondrius, maybe Botanist, Gul'dan.. I could actually see use for it in world questing, maybe? There's no way it's worth it in pure single target as it stands. No hope in hell. It's also extremely RNG because critting and not critting with this is a big difference in a pack of adds.

[Redblade]

It actually seems really good doing some napkin math. Just some fuzzy calcs, don't shoot me as I don't have time to do a details look. TV is ~1.7-1.8x a DS. The new Legendary is a 400% DS every minute. ~2,22-2.35x a TV. I cast ~17-18 TVs/minute. This is about a 7% increase in TV casts if you replace a TV with a DS. This is not accounting for good timing. It takes 60s to get a full 30 stack. So using it every 60s means we can ensure that 1/2 of them are at 15 stacks of Crusade. The cloak is a 15% increase in TV damage IF you get 100% uptime, which doesn't happen outside of wings. Its maybe 85% at best. It probably won't beat out the cloak in single target, but it would be competitive. The additional benefit is that the cloak loses value when you must disengage the boss or there are intermission phases. The new legendary is the opposite, its worth more in those cases, as it will continue to build stacks. I doubt it will be BiS single target, but I think it would be pretty good still. It will be really good in multitarget for sure and for M+ (swap them in for trash).

Now if only fights are exactly X:10 minutes long...

Ina purely theoretical setting it might be close in value but I don't see how it's practically even close in actual fights. Perhaps there is that one exception but I doubt it. Time will tell though.

[Aribethe]

Now if only fights are exactly X:10 minutes long...

Ina purely theoretical setting it might be close in value but I don't see how it's practically even close in actual fights. Perhaps there is that one exception but I doubt it. Time will tell though.

Its actually more the opposite. You will have a full charge on pull, the math I did was assuming 1 min increments. The value goes up when u get 1 extra at the end. It was also napkin math. Why are there so many negative Rets with thousands of posts in this forum? If you think it sucks, don't use it. Everything isn't about perfect parses on patchwerk. Fights have mechanics that change the dynamics of things. The cloak loses value when u have to disengage and lose your buff. The new one will benefit when you have to. Some people can see the value in the flexibility of this....

[Reith]

Its actually more the opposite. You will have a full charge on pull, the math I did was assuming 1 min increments. The value goes up when u get 1 extra at the end. It was also napkin math. Why are there so many negative Rets with thousands of posts in this forum? If you think it sucks, don't use it. Everything isn't about perfect parses on patchwerk. Fights have mechanics that change the dynamics of things. The cloak loses value when u have to disengage and lose your buff. The new one will benefit when you have to. Some people can see the value in the flexibility of this....

Well, when you have literally 11 useless talents in Mythic Nighthold and they're focusing on WARLOCKS, it's hard to not have a polarizing opinion whenever something actually happens to ret.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Well, when you have literally 11 useless talents in Mythic Nighthold and they're focusing on WARLOCKS, it's hard to not have a polarizing opinion whenever something actually happens to ret.

Well, to be frank, we have had a lot of attention recently.

Lawbringer nerf
DH nerf
And now this wondrous, useless, tierslot-occupying legendary.
We certainly aren't lacking no attention.

[Redblade]

It was also napkin math. Why are there so many negative Rets with thousands of posts in this forum?

What's negative about calling it like you see it? I simply fail to see the purpose of this item same as the rouge cloak with the same effect for FoK is terrible.

If you think it sucks, don't use it. Everything isn't about perfect parses on patchwerk. Fights have mechanics that change the dynamics of things. The cloak loses value when u have to disengage and lose your buff. The new one will benefit when you have to. Some people can see the value in the flexibility of this....

But isn't that the problem though, why implement more legendaries at this point? Either they are better than the top 3 and will get used or they are useless. Not only does this have to beat the other legendaries, it also has to compensate for not being able to use 4set+2set as it blocks one of the tier slots.

[Bonham123]

What's negative about calling it like you see it? I simply fail to see the purpose of this item same as the rouge cloak with the same effect for FoK is terrible.



But isn't that the problem though, why implement more legendaries at this point? Either they are better than the top 3 and will get used or they are useless. Not only does this have to beat the other legendaries, it also has to compensate for not being able to use 4set+2set as it blocks one of the tier slots.

Agreed with red.

RNGs is probably what they want as the core play.

Grinding legendaries is what they expect us to do and and yet I will say 95% of the players feels disgusted about.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Out of curiosity, can someone check if Ret is the only spec whose last golden trait does virtually nothing to improve its ST damage, or not?

[RGeneral24]

Out of curiosity, can someone check if Ret is the only spec whose last golden trait does virtually nothing to improve its ST damage, or not?

Arcane and Fire mage's golden is aoe/cleave oriented.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Arcane and Fire mage's golden is aoe/cleave oriented.

I see, thank you.
So they too don't provide no ST dps gain at all?

[RGeneral24]

I see, thank you.
So they too don't provide no ST dps gain at all?

Fire is cleave on phoenix flames so no.

Arcane is another arcane explosion on cast of it and since you dont use it ST so no.

All other specs include any type of ST upgrade.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Fire is cleave on phoenix flames so no.

Arcane is another arcane explosion on cast of it and since you dont use it ST so no.

All other specs include any type of ST upgrade.

Thank you once more.
Makes quite a little sense, tbh.

[Reith]

Thank you once more.
Makes quite a little sense, tbh.

Makes sense why Fire and Arcane are behind Frost in ST as well.

[Wutangrza]

Out of curiosity, can someone check if Ret is the only spec whose last golden trait does virtually nothing to improve its ST damage, or not?

It's not like Blizzard wasn't aware of this, it's why our pre-golden is significantly better than anyone else's.

[Morally Grey Storm]

It's not like Blizzard wasn't aware of this, it's why our pre-golden is significantly better than anyone else's.

Which one? The BoJ one? That which I already have, with literally 100% uptime? Can you please remind me how are these called?
Or maybe it's the BotA one? The one that is getting a tweak/nerf, however you see fit to look at it?
Which one are you on about?