[7.0 Retribution Paladin] Guide and Discussion

[Tonyman64]

Ran some SimC combos last night and got about 940k as my best set. My question is, it stacked mastery to 35% with crit to 25% and haste at 24%. Why is it valuing mastery so high?

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ch...rmoon/testifyx

Because mastery isn't quite as bad as it's generally made out to be.

[Benssax]

Yes it is. I'm 932 and mastery sims under 17 dps per point while all my others are way over 20 dps per point.

[Reith]

Yes it is. I'm 932 and mastery sims under 17 dps per point while all my others are way over 20 dps per point.

Also depends on your other stats and your gear bonuses, as well as how much mastery you're getting vs other stats.

EDIT: If you mean mastery seems lower on stat weights, try simming with less mastery and you'll see it get closer.

[Deleted]

Yes it is. I'm 932 and mastery sims under 17 dps per point while all my others are way over 20 dps per point.

mastery, like all secondaries, varies very much in value. Mastery is just seldom worth more than the other stats but can be your highest simming stat by far at points.
Please don´t think of me as rude but stop talking BS and taking your sim results as something worth basing an argument on.

@xpyre
the most likely reason you end up with such high mastery values is the ilvl of your gear for anything beside necks and rings 5-10 ilvl often mean an upgrade even if it is mastery heavy. the reason here is that the primary stat increases more than secondary stats with higher item budgets and I)´m not even talking about the relative strength of the primary stat.
Next thing you have to keep ind mind are set bonuses generally a set bonus will be stronger than a perfectly itemized piece of gear. In my case I used the t20 helmet(915) to acquire my t20 4p, to do that I had to unequip my 920 t19 helmet. I lost about 4%haste and went up to 30% mastery but still gained round about 10k dps.
So the best thing to do is to sim every item that may be an upgrade. A simple tool that can help you with that is simpermut. It is a brute-force method to get results but it works.

[xpyre]

Thank you @CptKnusper. I do sim every piece of gear that drops. I usually put all my gear into raidbot best gear function, copy the SimC file from there since I'm limited on combos and then run SimC on my PC.

[Deleted]

Thank you @CptKnusper. I do sim every piece of gear that drops. I usually put all my gear into raidbot best gear function, copy the SimC file from there since I'm limited on combos and then run SimC on my PC.

necks and rings with mastery are usually not worth simming with less than 15 ilvl increses, 10 when it is haste/mastery or when you are really low on mastery.
For the rest you will may want to sim until you get a gut feeling for what is an upgrade and what not. set pieces are sometimes even worth dropping significant ilvl

PS.: don't take this as gospel it just always worked for me like this just use it cautiously as a guideline and when in doubt sim it to be save

[Deleted]

Because mastery isn't quite as bad as it's generally made out to be.

It's probably because of ilvl.

Mastery is pretty bad. About 40% behind other stats until the mastery buff gets live. Don't sell the illusion that theres anything great about mastery atm. Its the strength and the other secondary pulling up those pieces (and tier sets most probably).

[Tonyman64]

It's probably because of ilvl.

Mastery is pretty bad. About 40% behind other stats until the mastery buff gets live. Don't sell the illusion that theres anything great about mastery atm. Its the strength and the other secondary pulling up those pieces (and tier sets most probably).

I see closer to 15% with my current gear at ~920 ilvl, but any number like that is based on stat weights. Stat weights aren't a great way to compare stats given how volatile they are.

[Deleted]

I see closer to 15% with my current gear at ~920 ilvl, but any number like that is based on stat weights. Stat weights aren't a great way to compare stats given how volatile they are.

If you compare a non mastery ring 910 to a mastery ring, the mastery ring needs to be 940 to be comparable and it's still worse. It's a sim that Solsacra did recently and most probably led to the mastery buff on the PTR.

Mastery is a trap, you want to avoid it at all costs (on live). But theres no escaping from it on our tier set.

Anyways, yes, currently mastery is bad and if you can get an item of the same ilvl that doesnt have mastery (or probably even in the 5 or 10 ilvl range), you want the item without mastery. So, its not like its 0 DPS, but its "avoid if you can".
Thankfully though, it may be worth holding onto the items for the next patch.

[Deleted]

so not sure if my math is correct ehre since it is almost 4 am and i only checked with a quick loook at a calculator was comparing mythic versions of vial of ceaseless toxins and umbral moonglaives and found both that for ST umbral will do more damage if you wait for fulls tacks of crusade isntead of using it on CD and that it slightly edges out vial of ceaseless toxins if you do it like that.

this is sjut purely the damage from the trinkets active effects though so not taking any of their abse stats into account but i still find it weird that an aoe effect would win out over ST effect my methods might b faulty though sicne well 4 am and using a shitty phone calculator.

dont ahve the numbers saved but the method i used to get my numbers was comparing umbrals damage over 90 seconds sicne that is the CD and for the otehr multiplying the damage with the damage increase from a fully stacked crusade and comparing it over 120 seconds.

for vial i took its base damage+ another applications of its basedamage multiplied with crusade to compare it against using umbral with crusade and this ended up being a slight dps increase.

as i said this is only from the active effects of the trinkets and the moonglaives have problems in fights were bosses move around which the vial doesnt.

but the numbers i got comparing mythic ilevel of both of them was around 19k dps from teh active on monglaives and 16k from vial.

vial does ahve 2k strength compared to 1.3k versa on glaives so it propably still wins out but im not good enough at simcraft to set up a proepr comparision sim seeing as im pretty sure it uses moonglaives on CD isntead of togheter with fully stacked crusade so if someone else can check my testing or point out anything i did wrong i would be thankful.

[Dugna]

and another hotfix with a "buff" why couldn't they just do a damn overhaul already....that or atleast do a flat like 20-30 increase they're doing currently for feral and frost.

[Jester Joe]

Retribution
Blade of Justice damage increased by 10% (unchanged in PvP).
Crusader Strike damage increased by 10%.

For those who didn't see the upcoming hotfix.
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/1...s-for-june-25/

Didn't think BoJ would be the part to get buffed, I guess that just makes all the damage traits for it even more stronger.

[Wutangrza]

so not sure if my math is correct ehre since it is almost 4 am and i only checked with a quick loook at a calculator was comparing mythic versions of vial of ceaseless toxins and umbral moonglaives and found both that for ST umbral will do more damage if you wait for fulls tacks of crusade isntead of using it on CD and that it slightly edges out vial of ceaseless toxins if you do it like that.

this is sjut purely the damage from the trinkets active effects though so not taking any of their abse stats into account but i still find it weird that an aoe effect would win out over ST effect my methods might b faulty though sicne well 4 am and using a shitty phone calculator.

dont ahve the numbers saved but the method i used to get my numbers was comparing umbrals damage over 90 seconds sicne that is the CD and for the otehr multiplying the damage with the damage increase from a fully stacked crusade and comparing it over 120 seconds.

for vial i took its base damage+ another applications of its basedamage multiplied with crusade to compare it against using umbral with crusade and this ended up being a slight dps increase.

as i said this is only from the active effects of the trinkets and the moonglaives have problems in fights were bosses move around which the vial doesnt.

but the numbers i got comparing mythic ilevel of both of them was around 19k dps from teh active on monglaives and 16k from vial.

vial does ahve 2k strength compared to 1.3k versa on glaives so it propably still wins out but im not good enough at simcraft to set up a proepr comparision sim seeing as im pretty sure it uses moonglaives on CD isntead of togheter with fully stacked crusade so if someone else can check my testing or point out anything i did wrong i would be thankful.

The strength makes the vial clearly better for ST. The sims on silverhand are pretty accurate, should just check them out: http://thesilverhand.net/retribution...dvanced-guide/

[Deleted]

The strength makes the vial clearly better for ST. The sims on silverhand are pretty accurate, should just check them out: http://thesilverhand.net/retribution...dvanced-guide/

simming them myself leaves a very small difference betwent he two trinkets for St and that is wit using the glaives on CD insteaf of togheter with crusade which was more powerfull.

If i knew how to setup simcraft properly I could set it up to sim the glaives used only with fulls tacks of crusade isntead of on CD and check ebtter but from waht i see the difference betwen them at least with my gear is very close sice versatility gives quite a bit more than strength for me atm.

the liekly scenario is the vial being mre pwoerful for ST but it is propably closer than previously thought.

[Deleted]

Crusader Strike hotfix affects Zeal as well ?
And 1 quick question :
After getting t20 2 set do you prio BoW over judge or wait a couple of secs till judge is off cd to get the buffed BoW hit ?

[Deleted]

Crusader Strike hotfix affects Zeal as well ?
And 1 quick question :
After getting t20 2 set do you prio BoW over judge or wait a couple of secs till judge is off cd to get the buffed BoW hit ?

Tier set doesn't the rotation at all. Just keep doing what you were doing minus the RNG from t19 x4.

As for Zeal... i bloody hope so, or it would be useless. I heard it doesnt buff DH though. It's supposed to be a ST buff to help us poor people (spoilers: we will still suck!).

[Temna]

I suppose a valid question to be asked is why buff BoJ instead of pushing the mastery buff that they added on the ptr

[Dugna]

I suppose a valid question to be asked is why buff BoJ instead of pushing the mastery buff that they added on the ptr

Because they can hotifx in nerfs with the speed of sound ( crusade nerfs beginning of NH for no reason what so ever) but when its a reasonable and right buff to ret its something they have to "test".

[Ianus]

Because they can hotifx in nerfs with the speed of sound ( crusade nerfs beginning of NH for no reason what so ever) but when its a reasonable and right buff to ret its something they have to "test".

they should "test" their heads if they actually know how to balance specs

[Deleted]

y cause a generator doing same damage with finisher makes sense.