1. #4261
    Quote Originally Posted by killwithpwr View Post
    4piece... Wanna throw up. how much longer will we get sets that affect HP generation/spending...
    cant they come up with something just a little more interesting?

    2piece, would the damage be applied to the buff of Judgement to HP spenders as well?

    Ds nerf... Great... Just what we need, aoe nerf....

    And finally - i really, REALLY hope that the netherlight crucible does not stack us more wota.

    Unless they do more Sisters style fights in antorus, having to stick to bosses balls at all times is not going to be fun in high movement bosses
    2 piece probably is only judgment. Greater Judgment being good with 2 set might be their plan? I could actually see them swapping sets again. Crusade won't last quite as long in general now with the AW trait nerfed to 2 seconds each rank. Mine would be 32 seconds instead of 35 having two AW relics.

  2. #4262
    Deleted
    Was wondering : with 2t19-4t20 u boyz keep the same opener or changed it: tried to woa/j/crusade/tv/bw/tv using bow/zeal talents 2 aw relics and belt/highlord seemed pretty decent but could not find a way to sim it properly

  3. #4263
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Stroggylos View Post
    Was wondering : with 2t19-4t20 u boyz keep the same opener or changed it: tried to woa/j/crusade/tv/bw/tv using bow/zeal talents 2 aw relics and belt/highlord seemed pretty decent but could not find a way to sim it properly
    Ok, keep in mind i'm using highlord and 3 AW relics.

    ST i start with Boj>Judgment>Crusade> TV>Wake of ashes> (etc)

    This is so i can fit another Wake of ashes in there before the crusade is over. Dunno if its the best thing ever, but its what i'm running with. If i start with 5 HP i run into problems because BoW will probably reset and theres no way not to waste HP or delay WoA.
    Last edited by mmoc80be7224cc; 2017-07-26 at 11:50 PM.

  4. #4264
    Why people are keep saying DS is getting nerfed. Its not. Our hidden aura buffs it too so its buffed for ~3%. Copied my live character on ptr and tooltip says 314,120 while live says 307,041 + mastery gives 4% more dmg to spenders for me on ptr, so overall DS is buffed, they just trimmed it down to not be to strong.

  5. #4265
    Quote Originally Posted by Stroggylos View Post
    Was wondering : with 2t19-4t20 u boyz keep the same opener or changed it: tried to woa/j/crusade/tv/bw/tv using bow/zeal talents 2 aw relics and belt/highlord seemed pretty decent but could not find a way to sim it properly
    The way I've been using it, I've been using it as a filler for when BoJ isn't proccing or waiting for multiple targets to come up. Since I use Liadrin's atm, that first HP would be clearly wasted if I started with Wake of Ashes, but I'd rather be using Soul...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shavier View Post
    Why people are keep saying DS is getting nerfed. Its not. Our hidden aura buffs it too so its buffed for ~3%. Copied my live character on ptr and tooltip says 314,120 while live says 307,041 + mastery gives 4% more dmg to spenders for me on ptr, so overall DS is buffed, they just trimmed it down to not be to strong.
    Oh yeah, the base ranks affect it too, that makes sense now then.

  6. #4266
    For opener on ST i usually go:
    Judge, boj, crusade and tv, woa, tv and either zeal or boj if it procs.
    On ST i usually pass my competator ret in my guild, although he has way better optimised gear.
    And i recently got my Cinders finally, so hoping that will help me pass him even more often...

    Btw, i dont feel any difference with the boj, cs and zeal buffs...


    Madness will consume you!!!

  7. #4267
    Quote Originally Posted by killwithpwr View Post
    For opener on ST i usually go:
    Judge, boj, crusade and tv, woa, tv and either zeal or boj if it procs.
    On ST i usually pass my competator ret in my guild, although he has way better optimised gear.
    And i recently got my Cinders finally, so hoping that will help me pass him even more often...

    Btw, i dont feel any difference with the boj, cs and zeal buffs...
    TV should be your priority not boj or zeal

  8. #4268
    Quote Originally Posted by zTrikky View Post
    TV should be your priority not boj or zeal
    Cant cast TV with only 2 HP though... At least without TFoJ


    Madness will consume you!!!

  9. #4269
    Quote Originally Posted by killwithpwr View Post
    Cant cast TV with only 2 HP though... At least without TFoJ
    what i meant was you always go for 5hopo before popping wings because the goal is to get to 15 stacks of crusade asap. you will never have a big gap getting to 15 stacks from 5hopo(boj+boj/boj+2zeal), but you will have smaall gaps getting to 15 stacks from 3hopo(boj)

  10. #4270
    Well, my thought process is that,
    1. BoJ allways hits, Woa doesnt allways hit for aome reason, even within a 12 yard range, so its safer.

    2. Casting Judge and the BoJ allways gives me the opening to cast 4 TVs within one judge debuff without the danger of it falling off, casting Woa first and then judge gives me the same 4 TVs but with the danger of WoA not hitting.

    3. If BoW procs immidietly after the first one, ill cast it aswell (buffed with TV) and still have room to cast Woa twice during crusade (granted the second Woa dot will not benefit from Crusade, but fitting in an extra BoJ goes much better for me than the dot does)

    Since BoJ generates 3 HP with the set, its essentially the thing if you open with BoJ or Woa, with the benefit of having a potential BoW proc...


    Madness will consume you!!!

  11. #4271
    Deleted
    y well it is difficult for me to understand since having highlord leggo, bow talent and using darkmoon trinket (y am that pathetic) there are so many rng factors around. Trying to figure when i get 15 stacks but results are quite inconsistent as u understand ...however was wondering with the buff to boj and maybe a relic as well if it would be beneficial to hit the first one after it gets buffed by judge,tv and 4 crusade stacks instead of using it outside them...

  12. #4272
    Quote Originally Posted by zTrikky View Post
    what i meant was you always go for 5hopo before popping wings
    No, you don't.

  13. #4273
    High Overlord Kuriyama's Avatar
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    So to the dismay of my fellow raiders, I took my Ret into HC ToS this week. And in return I got loot banned....yep. Every guild member is a RL friend and they loot banned me because I decided to swap toons for one night to see how Ret was doing. Pretty much made the run pointless because I wanted to try and get 4set and see how it was for Ret. Only one Conq dropped and they gave it to our Holy Pala who would get 4set, and also our Warlock has NO tier....so it would take me forever to get 4set.

    I did get 2 legendary parses and 2 high epic parses on bosses, though. On my Moonkin I struggled to get epic. Ret still doesn't feel any good, meters are pretty depressing outside of Crusade windows. It's hard to tell the future but I may go Rogue or Warrior by next expansion, even if Ret gets buffed. I'm not taking the chance of getting treated like dirt again...

  14. #4274
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePants999 View Post
    No, you don't.
    lol then you probably dont play ret well enough. with crusade you NEVER want to just boj>judg>wings. it will cost you at least two seconds during the buildup of crusade (which amounts to quite a bit of damage considering how important burst is). there are other rets i notice who pop wings with only 3 hopo and i wind up bursting anywhere between 75k and 125k higher than them. you ask any high end ret and they will tell you to always pop wings on pull only when you have 5hopo and judgment on the target(s). why do you think precasting divine hammer is a good thing to do before a pull.

  15. #4275
    Quote Originally Posted by zTrikky View Post
    lol then you probably dont play ret well enough. with crusade you NEVER want to just boj>judg>wings. it will cost you at least two seconds during the buildup of crusade (which amounts to quite a bit of damage considering how important burst is). there are other rets i notice who pop wings with only 3 hopo and i wind up bursting anywhere between 75k and 125k higher than them. you ask any high end ret and they will tell you to always pop wings on pull only when you have 5hopo and judgment on the target(s).
    So I just went and looked at the top ret logs on Goroth.

    #1 log - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...=9&view=events - BoJ, Crusade, TV, Wake.

    #2 log - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...=2&view=events - Crusade, BoJ, TV, Wake. (Even I'll admit this is wrong, but he clearly had no intention of building to 5.)

    #3 log - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...21&view=events - same as #2 except he didn't even Judge before casting Crusade.

    #4 log - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...05&view=events - same as #3.

    #5 log - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...13&view=events - same as #1.

    I don't know how far down the list you want me to go before you'll consider the point proven, but top rets are not building to 5 first - they're all building to 3, casting Crusade, TV then WoA. The reason for this is because it really makes very little difference to how fast you stack Crusade, but if you go in with 5 then you delay WoA by two globals AND either waste HoPo (because you go Crusade -> TV -> WoA), or delay it by two MORE globals (because you go Crusade -> TV -> CS -> TV -> WoA), which also means you don't fit the second WoA entirely within Crusade.

    Quote Originally Posted by zTrikky View Post
    why do you think precasting divine hammer is a good thing to do before a pull.
    Is this a trick question? It's because (a) it saves you a GCD in combat, and (b) ensures it's off CD again by the time you're ready to cast it a second time. Nothing to do with building to 5.

    - - - Updated - - -

    FWIW, I was bored and looked at #6 through #10 as well. None of them built to 5 either, unless you count the weirdo who used WoA before Crusade. The only one who came close was #7 who built to 4 before Crusade, and let Arcane Torrent and Liadrin's give him 5 and 6 for the second TV. But if I were a Blood Elf in T20, I'd do that too - those of us who are making do with lesser races don't have that luxury :-)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Still bored, so instead of looking at the top Goroth logs, I looked at the top ret All-Stars (https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...ec=Retribution).

    #1 - Vachebringer - stacks to 3.
    #2 - Makeitstack - is a belf, does the belf trick.
    #3 - 柚木萌 - stacks to 3.
    #4 - 白陌 - stacks to 3.
    #5 - 엘타락 - stacks to 3.

    So unless you can provide a better source of "high end rets" than the people who are actually performing best, I'm going to have to stick with "no, top rets don't build to 5", sorry.

  16. #4276
    Quote Originally Posted by zTrikky View Post
    lol then you probably dont play ret well enough. with crusade you NEVER want to just boj>judg>wings. it will cost you at least two seconds during the buildup of crusade (which amounts to quite a bit of damage considering how important burst is). there are other rets i notice who pop wings with only 3 hopo and i wind up bursting anywhere between 75k and 125k higher than them. you ask any high end ret and they will tell you to always pop wings on pull only when you have 5hopo and judgment on the target(s). why do you think precasting divine hammer is a good thing to do before a pull.
    Lol because no other situations can occur besides your own? With Liadrin's Fury, if you build to 5 before Crusade, you're wasting HP. You at most want to start at 4 with that, but it's not even bad to start at 3 because you want to take advantage of the prepot as well. I typically go Judge > BoJ > Crusade/TV because I use Liadrin's. If I were using Soul, I'd probably build to 5, but I don't even have that yet, and many others don't, either.

  17. #4277
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    If I were using Soul, I'd probably build to 5, but I don't even have that yet, and many others don't, either.
    Nahh not worth, still BoJ -> Judge -> Crusade -> TV -> Wake -> TV and then it's all up to if you got a DP proc or BoJ proc, if neither you Zeal for 3HP and TV again.

  18. #4278
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePants999 View Post
    So I just went and looked at the top ret logs on Goroth.

    #1 log - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...=9&view=events - BoJ, Crusade, TV, Wake.

    #2 log - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...=2&view=events - Crusade, BoJ, TV, Wake. (Even I'll admit this is wrong, but he clearly had no intention of building to 5.)

    #3 log - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...21&view=events - same as #2 except he didn't even Judge before casting Crusade.

    #4 log - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...05&view=events - same as #3.

    #5 log - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...13&view=events - same as #1.

    I don't know how far down the list you want me to go before you'll consider the point proven, but top rets are not building to 5 first - they're all building to 3, casting Crusade, TV then WoA. The reason for this is because it really makes very little difference to how fast you stack Crusade, but if you go in with 5 then you delay WoA by two globals AND either waste HoPo (because you go Crusade -> TV -> WoA), or delay it by two MORE globals (because you go Crusade -> TV -> CS -> TV -> WoA), which also means you don't fit the second WoA entirely within Crusade.


    Is this a trick question? It's because (a) it saves you a GCD in combat, and (b) ensures it's off CD again by the time you're ready to cast it a second time. Nothing to do with building to 5.

    - - - Updated - - -

    FWIW, I was bored and looked at #6 through #10 as well. None of them built to 5 either, unless you count the weirdo who used WoA before Crusade. The only one who came close was #7 who built to 4 before Crusade, and let Arcane Torrent and Liadrin's give him 5 and 6 for the second TV. But if I were a Blood Elf in T20, I'd do that too - those of us who are making do with lesser races don't have that luxury :-)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Still bored, so instead of looking at the top Goroth logs, I looked at the top ret All-Stars (https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...ec=Retribution).

    #1 - Vachebringer - stacks to 3.
    #2 - Makeitstack - is a belf, does the belf trick.
    #3 - 柚木萌 - stacks to 3.
    #4 - 白陌 - stacks to 3.
    #5 - 엘타락 - stacks to 3.

    So unless you can provide a better source of "high end rets" than the people who are actually performing best, I'm going to have to stick with "no, top rets don't build to 5", sorry.
    lol obviously if you are using liadrin's (which every one of them is except one) you lose one hopo if you get to 5 hopo. the people with soul aren't getting to 3 hopo but they have ~50% more DP procs than others, so they have less 1s gaps than others. not to mention the majority of the fights you linked last for 4:30 which is about 2 and a half crusades. so yes the exception is if you use liadrin's. if you build to 5hopo with liadrin's you will miss a couple of tv's. i should have been clear about that.

    and before you report back to class with another essay, you should know that every single one of the rets with soul (which is definitely worse than liadrin's if you don't get enough procs with it) get either decent DP procs and insane BoW procs or decent BoW procs and decent DP procs. or both. there are other factors that go into parses like those but getting 30+ bow/dp procs in a single fight that lasts for 4:30 or less all comes down to rng.

  19. #4279
    Quote Originally Posted by zTrikky View Post
    lol obviously if you are using liadrin's (which every one of them is except one) you lose one hopo if you get to 5 hopo. the people with soul aren't getting to 3 hopo but they have ~50% more DP procs than others, so they have less 1s gaps than others. not to mention the majority of the fights you linked last for 4:30 which is about 2 and a half crusades. so yes the exception is if you use liadrin's. if you build to 5hopo with liadrin's you will miss a couple of tv's. i should have been clear about that.

    and before you report back to class with another essay, you should know that every single one of the rets with soul (which is definitely worse than liadrin's if you don't get enough procs with it) get either decent DP procs and insane BoW procs or decent BoW procs and decent DP procs. or both. there are other factors that go into parses like those but getting 30+ bow/dp procs in a single fight that lasts for 4:30 or less all comes down to rng.
    Erm...

    You: stack to 5 before Crusade
    Me: no, stack to 3
    You: top rets all stack to 5
    Me: here's the top rets, they stack to 3, and here's the logic for why
    You: lol obviously if you have liadrin's you stack to 4, and the top parses are rng
    Me: ???

    http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-conten...iana_jones.gif

  20. #4280
    You don't build 5 hopo under normal circumstances, meaning if your iq is higher than 12.
    Barring if you don't want to fit second wake into crusade window. Which, in turn, returns us back to 12 iq point.
    Last edited by Morally Grey Storm; 2017-07-29 at 05:05 PM. Reason: Glitch Mob_-_Animus Vox

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