Disc Priest and Mythic+

[Uberkafros]

Make shadow covenant baseline, remove the direct heal effect and apply attonement.
PW: Radiance should be a true aoe heal/shield spell. without the need to apply attonement by itself, at least without a trait.
Masterey should focus on both absorbing bonus % and attonement heal transfer. We don't need to do a lot of dps in order to heal if the ratio transferred is high.
We just need to actively dps , no matter how low, to heal.

[Kasoy]

I kinda wish they kept PW:R to hit 5 targets but instead limited the max number of Atonements you could have out (like say 10 or 15). It would really help 5-mans I feel since you can blanket the whole group in a cast. and have more time DPSing.

[Supliftz]

I kinda wish they kept PW:R to hit 5 targets but instead limited the max number of Atonements you could have out (like say 10 or 15). It would really help 5-mans I feel since you can blanket the whole group in a cast. and have more time DPSing.

This is implying you aren't pressing PW:S on CD, which means 1 cast can actually blanket the whole group in atonement.

[Pearl1717]

So realistically disc does less dps than other healers as they can freely dps when there is a low damage time or just let HoT's tick around. They can easily swap from DPS to maximal healing in a nanosecond - disc can't.

Okay, if we're talking realistically, then please point me to any log where any healer does more dps than a disc, I'd love to see that.

If a tank is taking lots of damage, which they obviously are in mythic+, then you can only spamheal that tank and have effectively zero spread healing. You also can't dps as Atonement healing won't keep the tank up. In those situations you have three effective spells (pws, shadow mend, penance) in your toolkit - everything else is completely moot.

Well then you can make that argument for every healer. If the tank is getting slammed and you're just pouring in chain heals into him hes not gunna live very long. If a tank is truly taking that much damage than every healer will have to spamheal them, not just disc.

Blizzard really needs to fix Power Word: Radiance. It's 1. too slow 2. too expensive 3. heals way too little. Biggest problem is 1. , if it were faster you could apply Atonements quicker and do that DPS, which is supposed to be the niche and bread+butter of the spec.

PWR is incredibly powerful. Okay sure its a slow heal, literally the same as PoH. Its not too expensive when you take into account how much atonement healing you get out of it. It actually has a very high HPM. And you're right it does heal for little upfront, but that's not the point of it. The point of PWR is to apply atonement, and the true power of PWR comes from the atonement healing, not the upfront heal.

[Puupi]

Okay, if we're talking realistically, then please point me to any log where any healer does more dps than a disc, I'd love to see that.

Well people aren't dpsing so it's pretty hard to find logs of such. Disc doesn't do more dps than any other healer. The spells are doing the same damage and you need setup Atonement for like 50% of time and the other 50% is dpsing. If other healers heal 50% of time and dps the other 50%, the end dps would be exactly the same - not much difference in hps is either (disc is lagging behind so many tens of percents with current tuning).

Well then you can make that argument for every healer. If the tank is getting slammed and you're just pouring in chain heals into him hes not gunna live very long. If a tank is truly taking that much damage than every healer will have to spamheal them, not just disc.

Nope, the only AoE healing disc has is through Atonement - and if you can't use Atonement, you can't heal others at all, except single targeting the guys one by one with Shadow Mend and Penance. Other healers can quickly do fire-and-forget heals on the party. Shadow Covenant is the tool that helps the issue for disc, but the price of taking that instead of Grace might be a bit too much considering Shadow Covenant has its negative effects, too.

PWR is incredibly powerful. Okay sure its a slow heal, literally the same as PoH. Its not too expensive when you take into account how much atonement healing you get out of it. It actually has a very high HPM. And you're right it does heal for little upfront, but that's not the point of it. The point of PWR is to apply atonement, and the true power of PWR comes from the atonement healing, not the upfront heal.

For the HPM you need to take into account the mana used for DPS - not only what PWR costs itself.


Also, you should note that if you are playing disc with like 740ilvl right now - your Atonement application and Atonement uptime is absurdly high compared to what it will be when you are lvl 110. I've been playing with shitgeared boosted disc priest - from 640ilvl to 675ish, the stats I had at 640 will be what you shall have at 110 with full heroic dungeon gear. And the stats at 675 will be better than T19 raid gear. I have 10% haste, that's pretty much the maximum you will see at lvl 110 for a really long time.

[Kasoy]

This is implying you aren't pressing PW:S on CD, which means 1 cast can actually blanket the whole group in atonement.

PW:R can hit the tank too causing Radiance to not apply Atonement only to two extra targets. Increasing it to five targets also increases it's healing for 5mans which matters a lot more than in a raid. As it stands, Radiance is a very poor spell choice for Mythic+ especially when you get to the 7+ ranges. Increasing the targets increases its viability in 5mans where every GCD matters. The cap to the number of Atonements out is there to prevent it being too strong in raids (where you could potentially blanket 20 players).

[Totaltotemic]

PW:R can hit the tank too causing Radiance to not apply Atonement only to two extra targets. Increasing it to five targets also increases it's healing for 5mans which matters a lot more than in a raid. As it stands, Radiance is a very poor spell choice for Mythic+ especially when you get to the 7+ ranges. Increasing the targets increases its viability in 5mans where every GCD matters. The cap to the number of Atonements out is there to prevent it being too strong in raids (where you could potentially blanket 20 players).

No it can't, PWR will search for people without Atonement before it goes on someone with Atonement. This is a similar issue to the person above saying Disc doesn't do damage in 5 mans in that if you actually play the game you can quite easily see that this is not the case. These are only concerns if you never play Disc at all and only look at tooltips before you go up in arms about the spec.

[Puupi]

This is a similar issue to the person above saying Disc doesn't do damage in 5 mans in that if you actually play the game you can quite easily see that this is not the case.

Disc doesn't do more damage than other healers in 5 mans. I dps with all healers as much as possible. All free globals are spent for dps. With the current iteration of disc, the uptime on dps is way too low.

You need to take into account that disc doesn't even have AoE damage spells at all, sure you can multidot but it really isn't the same. Compare that to eg. Chain Lightning or Holy Nova....

[Deleted]

Any spec can do up to +10 on mythic dungeons with relative ease if the group is decent enough, that includes disc priests. You can get the maximum ilvl loot by completing +10 even if not within the timer, after that point loot stops improving. Going beyond that threshold is only for e-peen and unlocking an extra skin for your artifact weapon. The class/spec differences start to matter a lot more past that point and disc isn't the best candidate at such high levels of mythic+ dungeons even though it's possible to play one with success.

In short yes it's possible to do high levels of mythic+ dungeons as a disc priest but it's also requires more effort than it would do with another healing spec.

I can confirm this.
Did mythic + on the beta in both specs.
Disc is doable, but requires a bit more synergy between you and the tank, you don't really have an "Oh-shit" heal for him, so the damage has to be somewhat consistent.
Holy has a couple of good spells for those kind of situations, and is also slightly better on the move.

In the end I'd say, holy is safer because it gets the job done, and there is a higher chance of you recovering if something goes wrong.
Disc is best if you can make the group dance for you, it brings damage, the dungeons will end quicker, and you'll get more loot.

[Kasoy]

No it can't, PWR will search for people without Atonement before it goes on someone with Atonement. This is a similar issue to the person above saying Disc doesn't do damage in 5 mans in that if you actually play the game you can quite easily see that this is not the case. These are only concerns if you never play Disc at all and only look at tooltips before you go up in arms about the spec.

Then perhaps it was another issue cause I've seen it ignore two DPS that don't have Atonement (hitting the tank, a DPS, and myself - and the tank had the buff via PW:S). Though to be fair, it's only happened once and recreating the situation would be difficult especially since I rarely cast PW:R in a Mythic Dungeon. Yes, this is in a mythic dungeon in Legion beta (I'm not really sure why you're assuming I don't play the game or the spec). I've already run Disc in Mythic 7 and this is entirely with pugs without any coordination over voice chat.

[Nephthysis]

I can confirm this.
Did mythic + on the beta in both specs.
Disc is doable, but requires a bit more synergy between you and the tank, you don't really have an "Oh-shit" heal for him, so the damage has to be somewhat consistent.
Holy has a couple of good spells for those kind of situations, and is also slightly better on the move.

In the end I'd say, holy is safer because it gets the job done, and there is a higher chance of you recovering if something goes wrong.
Disc is best if you can make the group dance for you, it brings damage, the dungeons will end quicker, and you'll get more loot.

This. The only thing Disc suffers in is making up for other peoples' mistakes that they shouldn't be making in the first place if you're in a +10'ish group.

The one worry I'd have for Disc is that eventually (7.2?) the level of mythic+ loot will have to go up if it is to keep pace with other content. Either the overall ilevel has to be raised (unlikely) or the cap on what continues to give better loot has to be raised. When you have to do +18 or +20 to match Heroic Tier 20 raids then Disc may have an issue, but there are plenty of solutions when/if that time comes.

[Pearl1717]

Well people aren't dpsing so it's pretty hard to find logs of such. Disc doesn't do more dps than any other healer. The spells are doing the same damage and you need setup Atonement for like 50% of time and the other 50% is dpsing. If other healers heal 50% of time and dps the other 50%, the end dps would be exactly the same - not much difference in hps is either (disc is lagging behind so many tens of percents with current tuning).

Exactly because realistically it doesn't happen. And if a healer spent 50/50 they would do significantly less healing in exchange for dps, in which case disc would do the same dps and significantly more healing.

Nope, the only AoE healing disc has is through Atonement - and if you can't use Atonement, you can't heal others at all, except single targeting the guys one by one with Shadow Mend and Penance. Other healers can quickly do fire-and-forget heals on the party. Shadow Covenant is the tool that helps the issue for disc, but the price of taking that instead of Grace might be a bit too much considering Shadow Covenant has its negative effects, too.

Okay, but in your example, the tank is taking heavy damage and then you all of a sudden need to raid heal the rest of the party. It doesn't matter what spec you're playing, every healer will have difficulty with that. If a shaman just CH's then the party lives and the tank dies. If a disc all of a sudden just heals with atonement and not just spamming SM on tank, tank still dies and party lives. Its the same situation.

For the HPM you need to take into account the mana used for DPS - not only what PWR costs itself.

And even with that factored in it still makes PWR very efficient, and makes it more efficient the more atonements you apply with it.

[Totaltotemic]

Then perhaps it was another issue cause I've seen it ignore two DPS that don't have Atonement (hitting the tank, a DPS, and myself - and the tank had the buff via PW:S). Though to be fair, it's only happened once and recreating the situation would be difficult especially since I rarely cast PW:R in a Mythic Dungeon. Yes, this is in a mythic dungeon in Legion beta (I'm not really sure why you're assuming I don't play the game or the spec). I've already run Disc in Mythic 7 and this is entirely with pugs without any coordination over voice chat.

Uh, did you cast it at the tank? It's a pretty basic spell functionality: it always hits your target and the next 2 closest people without Atonement, and if none are found it will do the next closest with Atonement. It's been like this for a few months.

I find it hilarious that you think a spell is a "poor choice" at that point when you never even used it enough to figure out how the spell works. I just kind of assumed you hadn't actually played because it's a bit weird to play a character to the point of doing Mythic level 7 and not even know how your own spells work.

[Kasoy]

No, I did not cast it on the tank. I cast it on myself. The tank already had the buff. I cast Radiance on myself and was preparing to quickly Plea the last target before initiating my AOE heal but two DPS did not receive the buff. This is what I've been doing in lower difficulty content until it's reached the point when Mend would already have buffs up on several people. and using Radiance rather than Plea was unnecessary to get the additional one or two people without debuffs.

And why are you so aggressive? You're making it sound like anyone who doesn't agree with your opinion is ignorant or worse, stupid. I thought discussing ideas was part of what this forum was about. Belittling people or assuming they're so and so because they think a certain way contrary to you is not helping the discussion.

[Pearl1717]

No, I did not cast it on the tank. I cast it on myself. The tank already had the buff. I cast Radiance on myself and was preparing to quickly Plea the last target before initiating my AOE heal but two DPS did not receive the buff. This is what I've been doing in lower difficulty content until it's reached the point when Mend would already have buffs up on several people. and using Radiance rather than Plea was unnecessary to get the additional one or two people without debuffs.

Are you just a million yards away from everyone else?

[Kasoy]

Are you just a million yards away from everyone else?

Quite possibly!

But I don't know. It was a "WTF Moment" for me because the spell did not give the expected outcome which it had been doing properly before that instance. Perhaps it was Line of Sight (it was inside the ship in MoS and I don't know if Radiance ignores the corners of the corridors there or not). Either way, I just quickly cast Plea on the other two DPS and moved on. But the incident stuck because something that shouldn't have happened happened.

[Pearl1717]

Quite possibly!

But I don't know. It was a "WTF Moment" for me because the spell did not give the expected outcome which it had been doing properly before that instance. Perhaps it was Line of Sight (it was inside the ship in MoS and I don't know if Radiance ignores the corners of the corridors there or not). Either way, I just quickly cast Plea on the other two DPS and moved on. But the incident stuck because something that shouldn't have happened happened.

That's most likely the issue then cause it will always apply atonement to the two closest targets of your pwr target within 20 yards.

[Kainslife]

Any spec can do up to +10 on mythic dungeons with relative ease if the group is decent enough, that includes disc priests. You can get the maximum ilvl loot by completing +10 even if not within the timer, after that point loot stops improving. Going beyond that threshold is only for e-peen and unlocking an extra skin for your artifact weapon. The class/spec differences start to matter a lot more past that point and disc isn't the best candidate at such high levels of mythic+ dungeons even though it's possible to play one with success.

In short yes it's possible to do high levels of mythic+ dungeons as a disc priest but it's also requires more effort than it would do with another healing spec.

I assume shadow is fine up to Mythic+10 as well?

[Isheria]

Yes that includes shadow priests, there are plenty of them doing +10 and above in beta even post mind control nerf.

[Saiyoran]

Also, you should note that if you are playing disc with like 740ilvl right now - your Atonement application and Atonement uptime is absurdly high compared to what it will be when you are lvl 110. I've been playing with shitgeared boosted disc priest - from 640ilvl to 675ish, the stats I had at 640 will be what you shall have at 110 with full heroic dungeon gear. And the stats at 675 will be better than T19 raid gear. I have 10% haste, that's pretty much the maximum you will see at lvl 110 for a really long time.

No.
My priest at 110 on beta in Mythic dungeon gear has over 30% haste. Secondaries scale very differently in Legion. My 735 priest on live actually has similar secondary percentages (only a bit higher) to my 860 priest on beta. That's first tier heroic raid ilvl too.