Why does no one read the Quran before defending it?

[Bryntrollian]

But no, can't compare christianity to islam since they have totally different core values and teachings. One is for peace and love the other is for conquer and rule.

Your statement makes you seem like the type of person people have mentioned in this very thread.

[Deleted]

Your statement makes you seem like the type of person people have mentioned in this very thread.

You mean rational non-appologetic that knows I'm way better off interacting IRL with a practicing christian than an islamist? Yep sounds like me.

While set practicing christian might not LIKE gay people for example, he won't murder them because that's prohibited in christian teachings and even in the easy to follow rules called "The 10 Commandments". An islamist doesn't have that teaching, in fact imans right now in US still preach that death is a fitting punishment for gay people.

If anything people should judge the Old Testament vs Quaran.

[Aucald]

You are totally missing the point. Most Christian reject that Muslim God is their God, and most Jews reject that the Christian God is their God. You are basically saying that Christians and Jews are wrong - and you don't care about their beliefs.

Well, to be perfectly honest I don't care about their beliefs, as I'm sure they in general don't care about my own - but that's besides the point. Every adherent of a given religion is well within their rights to say "X religion's god isn't *my* god" even if, historically speaking, that's not actually true. Since religion and spirituality don't really deal in objective facts, you kind of have to take the scripture at face value. The Qur'an and most Muslim religious authorities say that they're god is the god of Abraham, the same as the Jews and Christians claim. Most Jewish and Christian religious authorities agree that, scripturally speaking, their god is also the same as the god of Islam. Methods of worship and minutiae of practice differ wildly, but the god itself remains the same. Historically only the Jews would have a legitimate claim to the god of Abraham, as they created the belief structure in the first place. But they accept the Christian position that the Christian god is the same, except for the whole Christ as messiah and/or part of the divine thing. So why not accept the Islamic view of god as well, if you're going to accept the Christian one?

[Holas]

As far as I know there is no complete version of the bible, the version most people read and that I grew up with was heavily edited by the catholic church, kings and powers that be at the time not to mention what was lost in translation. On my path to becoming agnostic it was one of the things I found out quite early on, you should do some research if you are curious the missing texts change the narrative quite a bit.

Again - what you call the "bible" is not what I call the bible. The Jewish bible has one version. I have absolute zero knowledge on the "christian bible" and as I understand it has few versions.

[Machismo]

You mean rational non-appologetic that knows I'm way better off interacting IRL with a practicing christian than an islamist? Yep sounds like me.

While set practicing christian might not LIKE gay people for example, he won't murder them because that's prohibited in christian teachings and even in the easy to follow rules called "The 10 Commandments". An islamist doesn't have that teaching, in fact imans right now in US still preach that death is a fitting punishment for gay people.

If anything people should judge the Old Testament vs Quaran.

Your religion is based off the Old Testament. It's part of the Bible. If you didn't base it off of it, then it wouldn't be included.

Christians have no problem oppressing gay people, they just don't tend to murder them. Congratulations, you aren't as bad as ISIS. Then again, most Muslims also aren't going to murder gay people. There were imams in this country supporting the killing of gay people, just as there are priests in this country supporting the killing of gay people. Of course, there are some Christian groups in Africa who don't seem to have a problem killing gay people. They are following through on what others preach.

[Bryntrollian]

You mean rational non-appologetic that knows I'm way better off interacting IRL with a practicing christian than an islamist? Yep sounds like me.

Not rational enough to know that Christianity has also had a strong history of conquer and rule.

[Deleted]

Not rational enough to know that Christianity has also had a strong history of conquer and rule.

It had about 500-800 years ago. We are now past that. Yet islam isn't.

[Holas]

Have you ever read the Bible?

I am not sure to who this question was directed but in Israel, there are mandatory religion classes from second grade (age ~7) till graduation (1-2 weekly hours for 11 years). Then we are required to take exam in it in order to get our high school diploma. So at least every Israeli have read almost all of it.

[Lucifer Morningstar]

Not fully accurate but close enough.

Christians largely fit into two categories. Trinitarians and Unitarians.

Trinitarians believe that God, Son and Holy Spirit are manifestations of different characteristics of the same entity. Consider it like... personality traits. This is specifically important because in this creed Jesus is God himself made manifest.

Unitarians don't accept this, and while they believe in God, they see Jesus as a completely separate entity which is not a deity, thus see him to be human, albeit the literal son of God. (Think of it like all the different demi-gods in Greeco-Roman mythology, who never attained full godhood.)

This sort of means that Muslims are to some extent mostly in agreement with Unitarians in the sense that they don't think Jesus was a deity, but they also don't believe him being the literal son of God, in which they largely agree with Judaism, which rejects the idea of God going around making human babies with superpowers.

Thank you for the accurate descriptions. I wish I could have put it the way you did.
Furthermore to note, I did meet people who did not believe that Jesus was the literal son of god and is just a prophet like many before him.

I remember seeing a video where a guy was walking around the street interviewing random people on their belief and I heard it a lot there as well, so it must be a common thing, but not as majorly common as I thought.

[Machismo]

It had about 500-800 years ago. We are now past that. Yet islam isn't.

Christians are murdering people in the world right now because of religion.

[Lucifer Morningstar]

If we have any experts here, I would like their scientific opinion: does Islam offer redemption other than martyrdom?

My scientific opinion about Christianity is redemption is very easy, you just ask Jesus and if you're sincere, you're redeemed.

The reason I'm asking is that if martyrdom is the only path to redemption after you've sinned a bunch, we're going to have martyrs.

Redemption in Islam if you are a non Muslim is: Believe in your heart that there is ONE god whom you worship and Mohammed is the Final Messenger of Islam.

Redemption to a Muslim is: Repent of your sins and ask God to forgive you. If you go back to your sins, you never truly repent, and if you do good deeds, your good deeds will erase your past.

However there are things that are non-forgivable such as First degree murder, Fighting against Islam after being a Muslim, cheating on your wife...etc
Scholars have said that God "might" forgive you, but that is not our call to make, and you should do good deeds in hope that you are forgiven.

[Bryntrollian]

It had about 500-800 years ago. We are now past that. Yet islam isn't.

Islam is in it's early stages just as Christianity once was. 400 years ago and you would probably be burned at the stake for such outlandish claims.

[dextersmith]

Why does no one read the Quran before defending it?

This sounds like religious promotion.

[Darsithis]

We don't allow religious discussion here.