Canada may become the first country to ditch the F-35 fighter jet

[Tennis]

https://news.vice.com/article/canada...35-fighter-jet

If newly-obtained documents are any indication, Canada may become the first country to scrap its order for the American F-35 fighter jet, the most expensive weapons program ever. Letters sent to the big industry players are just further evidence that the government of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is set to pull the trigger on a whole new open competition to pick Canada's next generation of fighter jet.

That competition will likely favour an out-of-the-box jet, over the expensive F-35.

Industry sources confirmed that the government set up meetings with big-name players in the aerospace industry in recent weeks to figure out its next steps in buying a new fighter jet — this, even though it's technically already on the hook to buy 65 of the F-35 Lightning II jets, manufactured by Lockheed Martin.

Those face-to-face meetings took place with representatives from two US companies: Boeing, Lockheed Martin itself; Sweden's Saab; the French Dassault; and the European multinational consortium Eurofighter. All of them make fighters that, while less advanced than the stealthy F-35, are vastly cheaper.

The meetings follow a 38-page questionnaire, provided to VICE News, which was sent to the five industry players, asking them to lay out the pros and cons of their jets.


This inquiry is likely the first step in what promises to be a protracted competition to choose a warplane to replace the current fleet of 79 CF-188 Hornets, a version of the American F-18, that Canada bought in the 1980s. Those jets, the letter notes, "should have been replaced years ago"

"The Government of Canada remains committed to building a more agile, better-equipped military, while ensuring best value for Canadians," reads a letter sent to the companies that accompanied the questionnaire.

Pulling out of the international consortium to build the F-35 program — which dates back to 1998 and includes the United States, United Kingdom, Italy, the Netherlands, Australia, and others — could be costly for the remaining partners, and may force some of the smaller states to reconsider their participation. The total cost of the program for Canada is pegged at some $25 billion, over the life of the jets.

Good stuff. No need for these overpriced jets. I trust PM Trudeau to make the right decision.

https://news.vice.com/article/canada...35-fighter-jet

[Zaydin]

Can't say I blame him, considering the F-35 has turned into a budgetary quagmire and won't be worth the money wasted on it in the end.

[Rennadrel]

No shit, because they are a fucking money pit. Harper was a douchebag for even taking the contract when the fighters out of Europe were cheaper, easier to build and maintain.

[oxymoronic]

yes, make deals then pull out

that will make canada relevant on the world stage.

[Tennis]

yes, make deals then pull out

that will make canada relevant on the world stage.

We have one of the most respected world leaders. We'll be okay.

[Aggrophobic]

yes, make deals then pull out

that will make canada relevant on the world stage.

Then again, what the project has turned into might not be what Canada signed up for.

[Zaydin]

yes, make deals then pull out

that will make canada relevant on the world stage.

Yeah, it makes much more sense to waste billions on an overhyped and under-performing fighter jet that will likely be obsolete when it's finally finished.

The F-35 is a failure, given it was meant to be a cheaper and more versatile 'stealth jet' than the F-22, except now its costs are soaring.

[Alcomo]

Yeah, it makes much more sense to waste billions on an overhyped and under-performing fighter jet that will likely be obsolete when it's finally finished.

The F-35 is a failure, given it was meant to be a cheaper and more versatile 'stealth jet' than the F-22, except now its costs are soaring.

But its the principle behind it! (sarcasm). I think the world stage would lose more respect for Canada from us actually buying the damn things than they would for Canada backing out of the deal lmao.

[Tyrianth]

Good, I'm all for upgrading our military, but the F35's are a huge waste of money. If we're going to waste that much I would rather we invest it in our own aerospace industry to develop our own.

[Polyxo]

Early in it's development, I thought the F-35 was a great idea. I have kind of a moderate interest in military aircraft, because my grandpa was an Aeronautical Engineer who worked on a bunch of military aircraft for McDonnell Douglas and Northrop. Unfortunately, it seems like the F-35's gone the same way of the M-3 Bradley, in which different groups in the pentagon wanted to strap on as many special features as possible.

[Moozart]

We have one of the most respected world leaders. We'll be okay.

Who?

Who?

[Sunseeker]

Until we force them to keep it through a new NATO treaty or something something military industrial complex bullshit.

[Tradewind]

No shit, because they are a fucking money pit. Harper was a douchebag for even taking the contract when the fighters out of Europe were cheaper, easier to build and maintain.

There was an intention to buy 65 of them for about $19B (obviously this number is much higher today). There is no contract to purchase any at all, never was. This isn't just a conservative thing either, the JSF program goes back the 90s. The Liberal party in 97 pledged $10MM to become an informed partner in the JSF program, and an additional $150MM (100 of which is over 10 years) in 2002 to become a level 3 partner in the JSF program. In 2006 there was the signing of the memorandum of understanding which committed ~$550 Million to cover development and maintenance from 2007 to 2051. To date this is the only money put forward by Canada towards the JSF Program, total of around $310MM. The memorandum makes no guarantees that Canada would buy the F35, however it maintains our level 3 partnership and thus continued development contracts for our industry.

Contrasted with what it has benefited Canadian Aerospace firms with contracts, worth around $700MM by the time of last year's election, with estimates of over $9B in total contracts a few years ago by the time it's in the air. Contracts that despite the current government's insistence won't disappear, Lockheed Martin has made it clear that they will if we back out now or purchase anything other than the F-35. To date this has been a pretty good deal for our aerospace firms, long term would be as well though the inflated costs of the F-35 due to the shitty development phase probably won't look as nice on paper if we do buy them, unless we scale back the purchase quite a bit.

I hope this helps with understanding how we got where we are...

[Dadwen]

Who?

Who?

I think he's the one that manhandles parliament members if he thinks they are moving too slow and elbows the females ones in the chest.... sounds like he has a temper.

[Tyrianth]

There was an intention to buy 65 of them for about $19B (obviously this number is much higher today). There is no contract to purchase any at all, never was. This isn't just a conservative thing either, the JSF program goes back the 90s. The Liberal party in 97 pledged $10MM to become an informed partner in the JSF program, and an additional $150MM (100 of which is over 10 years) in 2002 to become a level 3 partner in the JSF program. In 2006 there was the signing of the memorandum of understanding which committed ~$550 Million to cover development and maintenance from 2007 to 2051. To date this is the only money put forward by Canada towards the JSF Program, total of around $310MM. The memorandum makes no guarantees that Canada would buy the F35, however it maintains our level 3 partnership and thus continued development contracts for our industry.

Contrasted with what it has benefited Canadian Aerospace firms with contracts, worth around $700MM by the time of last year's election, with estimates of over $9B in total contracts a few years ago by the time it's in the air. Contracts that despite the current government's insistence won't disappear, Lockheed Martin has made it clear that they will if we back out now or purchase anything other than the F-35. To date this has been a pretty good deal for our aerospace firms, long term would be as well though the inflated costs of the F-35 due to the shitty development phase probably won't look as nice on paper if we do buy them, unless we scale back the purchase quite a bit.

I hope this helps with understanding how we got where we are...

You seem pretty knowledgeable on the subject. If the F-35's are going to cost us ~25 billion wouldn't that money be better invested directly into our own aerospace industry? We need to upgrade our CF-188's but we don't need top of the line fighter jets, I'm sure Bombardier our some of our other defense/aerospace contractors could do quite a bit of R&D with $25 billion. It would boost the industry, create high paying STEM jobs, and even possibly end up selling our own fighters to other countries to recoup some of the cost.

[minteK917]

About fucking time. Scared to invest in the C series that actually have a real shot, but willing to put money for a fighter jet thats already obsolete before its out.... and that nobody is gona fucking use anyway.

[Bigbamboozal]

I think he's the one that manhandles parliament members if he thinks they are moving too slow and elbows the females ones in the chest.... sounds like he has a temper.

Get real... buddy... She titted his elbow. lol
Compared to billary and the dump, he's a fucking jedi master of tranquility and class, like a prime minister swami of inner peace. Don't make him ride his moose over and kick your ass for talkin shit
Maybe you can quietly take notes instead of being triggered because some woman couldn't stand not rubbing her titters against the man-pretty awesomesauce that is our prime minister

OT: product talks bullshit walks, sort of narrows it down.

[Dadwen]

Get real buddy, she titted his elbow.
Compared to billary and the dump, he's a fucking jedi master of tranquility and class.
Maybe you can quietly take notes

Hmm how many people have they directly manhandled?

*I rather have a Rabid dog as Prez over Trump or Hillary but would till pick either of them over Trudeau.

[Putin-Chan]

Who?

Who?

Who?

Who?



I don't respect canada.

[oxymoronic]

We have one of the most respected world leaders. We'll be okay.

respected by whom? certainly not many