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  1. #141
    I think you ignore Middle Class and Working Class concerns at your own peril and mock their situation at yours, and Clinton's own peril.
    Hillary definitely is NOT ignoring the middle and working classes, as per her speech. And she most definitely did not mock them. I think there is a very high probability that we will be calling her President Hillary on Jan 20.

  2. #142
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post
    Hillary definitely is NOT ignoring the middle and working classes, as per her speech. And she most definitely did not mock them. I think there is a very high probability that we will be calling her President Hillary on Jan 20.
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  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post
    Hillary definitely is NOT ignoring the middle and working classes, as per her speech. And she most definitely did not mock them. I think there is a very high probability that we will be calling her President Hillary on Jan 20.
    I think there is a very high probability that she's getting paid by the oil industry, the military-industrial complex, and major banks and corporations. As a result, anything she says about the middle or working class is simply a lie to get elected, just like every other politician ever (Including Trump). Especially Hillary though as her entire political career is basically one instance of her lying leading to another instance of her lying.
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  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post
    Hillary definitely is NOT ignoring the middle and working classes, as per her speech. And she most definitely did not mock them. I think there is a very high probability that we will be calling her President Hillary on Jan 20.
    With her track record I'm sure she'll find a way to be reckless even during her acceptance speech as president.

  5. #145
    Seems like Clinton doesn't agree with the 'No More War' slogan.
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  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by akris15 View Post
    What I am pointing out is completely different than what you posted. First off that the "polls only" forecast of "right now" which "right now" is a terrible time to judge because we are going to convention season and the polls won't stabilize for a week or two. Also Nate generally stands by his "poll's plus" forecast which is 60/40 right now but again this is a TERRIBLE time to say "well X is winning".

    The joke was Rasmussen is a notoriously biased Polling service which this election season while every other poll showed that Clinton was up +10 points Rasmussen was always saying she was losing. Now Rasmussen is saying she has a small lead and all the other polls are having her losing. Its like Rasmussen wants to be a special snowflake every polling session.
    Fair. Note that Nate Silver has always said his method gets more accurate as the election comes up.

    Let's all ride the Gish gallop.

  7. #147
    I'll take polls seriously in about 2 weeks. There will be large swings back and forth until all the dust from the two conventions settles down. At that point we will have a better idea of how the horse race will shape up.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post
    I'll take polls seriously in about 2 weeks. There will be large swings back and forth until all the dust from the two conventions settles down. At that point we will have a better idea of how the horse race will shape up.
    There's too many factors that can change an individuals perception of either candidate from now until election day that I don't understand why people care about what a poll says

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Hobotripin View Post
    There's too many factors that can change an individuals perception of either candidate from now until election day that I don't understand why people care about what a poll says
    Because polls dictate the narrative.

    - - - Updated - - -

    That video of Bill falling asleep during his wife's nomination speech.. pretty much sums up the entire speech.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Caramuru View Post
    Because polls dictate the narrative.

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    That video of Bill falling asleep during his wife's nomination speech.. pretty much sums up the entire speech.
    Its pretty sad and do you have a link?

  11. #151
    My general impression of her speech was too much Trump. Granted, I was watching it from a tv in a diner and it was all close captioned. But I think it kind of changes the perspective a lot. Without sound, you see the camera, when it pans to adoring tearful fans (or whatever you want to call them) and it's kind of funny.

    But you read the prompter and you see her going after Trump. Really, I think for her to be legit and to make herself legit, she needs to tell people about herself, what she wants to do, not trying to rip Trump. That's what everyone else is doing and everyone knows who he is by now and what kind of person he is. And if this is Hillary's statement about who she is as a candidate, I think she failed. Basically, at least IMO, all she said was, "I am not Trump!" Pretty sad.

  12. #152
    My general impression of her speech was too much Trump. Granted, I was watching it from a tv in a diner and it was all close captioned. But I think it kind of changes the perspective a lot. Without sound, you see the camera, when it pans to adoring tearful fans (or whatever you want to call them) and it's kind of funny.

    But you read the prompter and you see her going after Trump. Really, I think for her to be legit and to make herself legit, she needs to tell people about herself, what she wants to do, not trying to rip Trump. That's what everyone else is doing and everyone knows who he is by now and what kind of person he is. And if this is Hillary's statement about who she is as a candidate, I think she failed. Basically, at least IMO, all she said was, "I am not Trump!" Pretty sad.
    If you only saw her speech, I guess you could chide her on too much anti-Trump and not enough pro-Hillary. If you started from her daughter's speech through the video and onto her speech, with the first two being completely pro-Hillary, then the amount of time in her own speech that was pro-Hillary compared to the anti-Trump part was about right.

    My take on the campaign strategies going forward: the Republican convention struck a very harsh anti-Hillary tone and made it clear that they want the election to be all about Hillary. Hillary threw down the gauntlet and talked quite a bit about herself, while making clear that she would throw some of Trump's words right back at him. This seems like a sound campaign strategy from both sides. We'll see how it plays out in the next couple of weeks.

  13. #153

  14. #154
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Yes, from what I gather you are arguing a bit more "Well Hillary just can't appeal to these rubes." and trying very hard to psychoanalyze why people vote as they do without simply letting them tell you their own narratives of why they are discontent. It reminds me a bit about how today we no longer even bother to ask people why they are unhappy in their own words but assume its a medical issue or they need some Mindfulness class or something.

    What Romney lacked also was they he wasn't running as a populist, hell Obama's first run was partially a populist run, he had all sorts of very populist policies, for example he chided Hillary as if she were going to bring in a bunch of Rubinites to be her economic advisors, and guess what Obama did? Yeah he did just that.

    What you seem to be doing is just that, paving over peoples economic frustrations and their own narratives about their lives in order to ignore the obvious problem, and that is that on a deep philosophical level the Democrats seem to always (IMHO intentionally) betray these types of voters. Republicans now also betray them but at least offer a platform to vent decades of frustration upon, and at the end of the day that is better than nothing. The problem Clinton is going to have is she is selling us a rosy economic vision, that America is great, everything is great and all problems are just "minor hiccups," or something. This won't go over well in a country for whom 70% do not like the direction we are going, were the vast majority of new jobs are poverty wage jobs.

    The Democrats today, for the most part, do not believe in Solidarity, and it shows. Did you watch the Thomas Frank video?
    You sure are doing a great job of taking what someone has said and adding your own little twist to it, so you can knock it down all that much easier. Like a boxer putting up a dummy made of straw.


    I hear it talked about on the radio all the time, and other political talk shows. Trump has a message. A bumper sticker message, but still a message, Hillary does not. And yes, this was talked about during the Obama elections. His message of "change and hope" and "yes we can" were easy for people to throw their own ideas into.

    I don't suppose you've seen the anime Kiznaiver? Well there's a great quote about projection in it, "People don't like you because they can't see themselves in you."

    This is not a "Well ur dum and I know what's best for you plebians," this is...

    "Trump is going to shit out golden eggs and give ten to each person!"
    "Uh, well on top of not being capable of doing such a thing, he never even mentioned that."
    "Shut up, Trump is going to make everything great!"

    And yes, people's ideas about Trump fixing things come from their discontent with whatever their current shitty situation is, despite most Americans being more well off than they were 4 or 8 years ago.

    I personally haven't seen a whole lot of talking about Hillary like she's a goose going to lay a golden egg, like people do Trump. Hell, there was more talk of Bernie doing the impossible than of Hillary, and even without a succinct message, people were projecting what miracles they thought he could work onto him.

    There's much less in the way of delusions about Hillary shitting gold bricks. And before someone replies and says "well that's cause she's a liar and a crook and a murderer and she eats babies!" have a look at Trump's past, even just a little bit of it. I dare you. Just do it.


    Unfortunately, it seems there's little room for solidarity when you're going for practical and pragmatic. Tribalism is for those who are unwilling to critique their own, even with great fault.
    Last edited by Cthulhu 2020; 2016-07-29 at 06:43 AM.
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  15. #155
    Does anyone else find it interesting that there seems to be a whole subplot about getting Hillary elected? This is movie material.

    Debbie Wasserman Schultz was the co-chair of Hillary's 2008 presidential run, where she lost the nomination to Obama. So, in order to lock down the nomination for 2016, Hillary would've had to put Schultz in charge of the DNC and manipulate it from within.

    In order for this corruption scheme to work, the Clintons would have needed first to, not only get the current DNC chair at the time to step down, but also get them to recommend Schultz for the position. A big request. And the Clintons would have likely needed to promise a powerful favor to that DNC chair, something more prestigious than being head of the Democratic party.

    So who was that person and what did they get in return?

    The previous chair of the DNC prior to Debbie Wasserman Schultz was...

    Tim Kaine.
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  16. #156
    Banned Orlong's Avatar
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    Crooked Hillary is so low energy and boring that even her husband fell asleep listening to her speech. I couldnt make it past about the first 10 minutes.



  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    I couldnt make it past about the first 10 minutes.
    Thanks for watching! It's people like you that made the DNC television ratings absolutely crush the RNC ratings.

    Sad!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Symphonic View Post
    Does anyone else find it interesting that there seems to be a whole subplot about getting Hillary elected? This is movie material.
    Hillary Clinton had 20 different co-chairs during her 2008 run. The fact that one of those co-chairs went on to lead the DNC isn't surprising. It's practically expected.
    Eat yo vegetables

  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    Thanks for watching! It's people like you that made the DNC television ratings absolutely crush the RNC ratings.

    Sad!

    - - - Updated - - -



    Hillary Clinton had 20 different co-chairs during her 2008 run. The fact that one of those co-chairs went on to lead the DNC isn't surprising. It's practically expected.
    Perhaps More people watched the DNC because Republicans are more open minded to the opposition party's message and wanted to hear what the Democrats had to say, whereas democrats just say fuck republicans, they are just a bunch of racist scumbags in the pocket of wallstreet. Im not listening to their tripe.
    Last edited by Orlong; 2016-07-29 at 12:23 PM.

  19. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    Republicans are more open minded to the opposition party's message
    Oh definitely. If there's one quality I associate with Republicans, it's being open minded toward Democratic policies.
    Eat yo vegetables

  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    Oh definitely. If there's one quality I associate with Republicans, it's being open minded toward Democratic policies.
    If you promote insanity and debauchery or no rule of law, no republican or sane person can't be open minded about it. Yet that's what DNC and Hillary promoted. They are just 2 steps away from tumblr SJW with their absurd views on reality and on facts. You can't be open minded against an insane person, you are compasionate and try to help him.

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