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  1. #21
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Hand him over, and wash our hands of it. It doesn't matter who rules Turkey so long as they do what we want, which Erdogan, despite being a pain in the ass, largely does.
    That would pretty much be sentencing him to death.
    Even if it benefits the US, its a pretty shitty thing to trade somebodies life in return for favours.

    Turkey needs the US & Europa more than we need Turkey.

  2. #22
    Erdogan is completely nuts. Not only he is backstabbing his NATO allies by doing illegal dealings with ISIS but he also threatens the whole World. If he continues like this the day I can see two solutions only. Either the US will assasinate him and put some puppet in his place or simply do another Gulf War on Turkey and put him down like Saddam and Quaddafi.

  3. #23
    Entire Turkey, Erdogan supporters and opposers, is pretty much convinced that this was USA backed coup.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Hand him over, and wash our hands of it. It doesn't matter who rules Turkey so long as they do what we want, which Erdogan, despite being a pain in the ass, largely does.
    There were times in Turkey, which this country didn't do what you asked. Always ended up with a coup . That's pretty much why everyone is convinced.

    --

    I am personally neutral on the claim. Could be a USA-supported coup, or could be Cemaat alone because they had the control of the army. They felt powerful enough, and executed the plan. Either way, USA knew about it, let's not bullshit ourselves.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2016-07-27 at 10:16 PM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    Entire Turkey, Erdogan supporters and opposers, is pretty much convinced that this was USA backed coup.
    Why didn't the rebels shoot down Erdogod when they had the chance then? Because they were his minions all along.

    First thing he does when back is to initiate the well planned purges. Some coincidence right? They just "happened" to have all those names ready in some hours?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrak View Post
    That would pretty much be sentencing him to death.
    Even if it benefits the US, its a pretty shitty thing to trade somebodies life in return for favours.

    Turkey needs the US & Europa more than we need Turkey.
    He's an old man. He'll be dead in a few years anyway.

    We lose nothing.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Linadra View Post
    Why didn't the rebels shoot down Erdogod when they had the chance then? Because they were his minions all along.
    Maybe they didn't know where his plane was, or maybe because he was accompanied by two fighter jets. Maybe they didn't even plan to kill him, which happens to be my personal opinion. This whole "they were going to kill Erdogan" is a propaganda material. They weren't planning to kill him, the plan was to capture him all along.

  7. #27
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creamy Flames View Post
    The US does covert stuff like everyone else, but these allegations are fucking insane. Turkish military attacked by the US? Openly? This is beyond absurd. It's completely fucking insane. Not even Fox News would have the balls to make this stuff up.
    They'd need an angle to pin it on Hillary Clinton first.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  8. #28
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linadra View Post
    Why didn't the rebels shoot down Erdogod when they had the chance then? Because they were his minions all along.

    First thing he does when back is to initiate the well planned purges. Some coincidence right? They just "happened" to have all those names ready in some hours?
    The CIA has too much experience with coups to commit one with these kind of amateurs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    He's an old man. He'll be dead in a few years anyway.

    We lose nothing.
    Does not really change my argument.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrak View Post
    Does not really change my argument.
    It's not an argument, it's an opinion. An opinion you raise quite often, without any rationale to back it up. The only reason Turkey needed USA was Soviet Union. USSR and their aggression no more. Now, USA needs Turkey. No one (save USA) needs Europe by the way.

  10. #30
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Oh brother this doesn't even make sense.

    Obama sided with Erdogan before anyone else in the world. I even called him out on it in the Turkey thread. He did it hours before it was even clear Erdogan was going to win. Maybe if Obama was slow condemning it, but he wasn't. He was way faster than he should have been.

    And now we organized it? And now we attacked our Turkish ally in Afghanistan?! What?

    The United States screws up from time time... but come on... that's really next level. That's fanciful to the extreme. This isn't even works of fiction. It's works of a nasty acid trip.

    This comes down to the Turkish government wanting Gulen, and the US Government not doing the right and proper thing and handing him over wrapped in a big red bow. He's no democrat. He's no dissident. He's another islamist, just one that Erdogan no longer gets along with. And even Turkey won't treat badly a frail old man.


    Hand him over, and wash our hands of it. It doesn't matter who rules Turkey so long as they do what we want, which Erdogan, despite being a pain in the ass, largely does.
    Maybe the cancer has spread too far? What do you think?

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    Maybe they didn't know where his plane was, or maybe because he was accompanied by two fighter jets. Maybe they didn't even plan to kill him, which happens to be my personal opinion. This whole "they were going to kill Erdogan" is a propaganda material. They weren't planning to kill him, the plan was to capture him all along.
    Was it? Was he captured? Or was he let back in to purge his political "enemies" that were already planned for long time, and increase his own power? Who had the biggest possible motive and gain from that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  12. #32
    The only one that gained power from this fail coup was Erdogan, and it was a weak one so that it can be suppressed quick ... Ask yourself who would gain from a coup there ... Turkey is a Nato country and a big one, why would any of the western counties want to make a mess near them and in there alliance ... it's dumb ... look to the east may be you can find someone with a lot (a lot) more to gain from this.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Linadra View Post
    Was it? Was he captured? Or was he let back in to purge his political "enemies" that were already planned for long time, and increase his own power? Who had the biggest possible motive and gain from that?
    The plan was to either capture him, or kill him. This isn't a staged coup. So far, what is being purged looks like Cemaat, which is officially recognized as a terrorist organization by the state. Today, they purged some media outlets and arrested some journalists. I haven't checked them personally, will check later when I have some time.

    You should note that some of these media outlets deliberately lied to put Cemaat oppositions to jail.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post


    Question to the Turkish friends here:

    How legit is this news agency? Did the USA actually tried to pull another Ukraine to Turkey?
    Are there any other media claiming the same thing?
    What is your government stance on this?
    Not Turkish...but European here.

    question 1 ( legit): Current news out of turkey is that everyone who does not report truthfully ( aka does not praise the supreme leader) Putin...sorry erdogan is getting banned, shot down or office's being closed down. So answer that question yourself.
    Question 2 (Ukraine) : What the f*ck??? usa had nothing to do with ukraine. That is about a country witch for a part wants to join EU and for a part wants to join russia. And i can on about both sides being wrong and done some shit. But that is for a other post.
    Question 3 ( media): Yes. The media in turkey ( see question 1)
    Question 4 ( government): She question 1

    Lets get something straight. No one knows what really happened. There are many question marks about how it went down in turkey. ( i can talk about that if you want). But in short: It went down in a weird way, some weird things happened ( if it was a "real" coup it would have gone down a other way). Why it happened ( depends on who really did it). And some other stuff.

    Right now the situation is as followed ( as European ) : Everyone else did it. Everyone who is not for erdogan is the enemy. All foreigners are liars and want to bring the nation down.

  15. #35
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by edw View Post
    The only one that gained power from this fail coup was Erdogan, and it was a weak one...
    The cancer has spread too far. The coup was too late.

    The U.S. should learn from this.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    Entire Turkey, Erdogan supporters and opposers, is pretty much convinced that this was USA backed coup.

    - - - Updated - - -



    There were times in Turkey, which this country didn't do what you asked. Always ended up with a coup . That's pretty much why everyone is convinced.

    --

    I am personally neutral on the claim. Could be a USA-supported coup, or could be Cemaat alone because they had the control of the army. They felt powerful enough, and executed the plan. Either way, USA knew about it, let's not bullshit ourselves.
    THe accusation makes no sense. Here's why. What does the US want most out of Turkey? At this moment? (1) Military access and (2) Military assistance in fighting ISIS.

    The former, it already has, and has had, for many months. No matter what, the US wanted Turkish approval to launch strikes into Syria from Turkish territory because it is much cheaper than doing that from an Aircraft carrier or from Qatar/Kuwait. It means less refueling tankers, not needed to tie up an aircraft carrier strike group. It's just wholly better for us. Nothing we would ever do would endanger that.

    The latter, while desirable, makes no sense to peruse from the coup angle. Consider what we're asking - that Turkey send it's military into Syria to fight on the ground. How many soldiers is that? Tens of thousands at a time? Now consider what would have happened if the coup had been successful. The Turkish military would have needed to assert and solidfy its hold on power - a process that could take upwards of two years give or take - mostly by deploying it's military forces to Turkish population centers en-masse. So where exactly would, under this alternate set of events, the troops have come from to persue out objectives in Syria? Turkey post-successful coup would have been so tied up with itself it wouldn't have had the manpower or political unity to launch a major ground strike into Syria. Because make no mistake about it - had the Turkish Army rolled into Ramadi, it would be a meatgrinder, for Turkey and for ISIS.

    The "how do we benefit" angle is non-existnt for the US, especially when Erdogan was largely doing what we wanted him to do already. SUre not quickly. Sure he fought us tooth and nail. But he came around.

    And besides if the US was going to support a coup, it wouldn't have failed. It could have sent American F-15s to shoot down loyalist F-16s and pretended it was coup-F-16s. But it didn't. Instead loyalists F-16s made short work of the coup's air power. And it certainly would have moved significant defenses to the region to protect against a loyalist counter-attack itself. But US Aircraft were out bombing ISIS in Syria as the coup was happening. In fact when Turkey shut down their airspace and the the US-Turkish-NATO base, they made one exception to their "nothing in the air" rule... any NATO/US aircraft currently in Syrian air space were allowed to return to base safely.

    The entire scenario just makes no sense. It would require the US Military - not the CIA, not politicians, but the uniformed military - to be criminally negligent in force protection. And the US military is many things, but that that is one thing they do not fool around with.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    Maybe the cancer has spread too far? What do you think?
    What? What cancer? Be clear.

  17. #37

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    The plan was to either capture him, or kill him. This isn't a staged coup. So far, what is being purged looks like Cemaat, which is officially recognized as a terrorist organization by the state. Today, they purged some media outlets and arrested some journalists. I haven't checked them personally, will check later when I have some time.

    You should note that some of these media outlets deliberately lied to put Cemaat oppositions to jail.
    Locking in on his plane, and the two escorts gave them that opportunity. Why wasn't it taken? Not much of a plan to increase the dictators power if you kill him, is it.

    It was bad enough that it might aswell have been staged.

    Reminds me of what Stalin did to "justify" their war on Finland. He ordered some of his troops to shell other part of his troops near the border, and claimed it was all Finland attacking them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  19. #39
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    What? What cancer? Be clear.
    You know exactly what I mean.

    But have it your way.

  20. #40
    What is being serviced to Western media? That this coup was Turkey's latest chance before the liberation or that democracy prevailed?


    @Skroe
    It is indeed hard to claim USA supported the coup, given Erdogan is doing pretty much everything USA asks for, or at least that's what we observe on the surface. But there have been some rumors of clashes between Washington and Ankara lately. My personal neutral stance on these claims is based on history. USA wanted a government change in Turkey before, and achieved it by convincing (or helping self-convinced) soldiers to make a coup. Two times this happened; in 1960 and 1980.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2016-07-27 at 10:45 PM.

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