University Software Engineering Year 2 Subject Choice

[A dot Ham]

Web developers are a dime a dozen, so there's that. Everyone and their brother can write some HTML/Javascript anymore.

(In before the inevitable, "But not GOOD web developers!!!" nonsense from people scared of losing their jobs.)

Yes and Graphic Design is about as useful as a Fine Art degree. The degree won't matter... your portfolio will.

I started college pre-med and burnt out on all the science (mostly the labs) real quick. For 1 quarter I dove head first into Graphic design... super fun but I was mediocre at best when compared to other students in my class, and this was some backwater private college in the hills of Napa valley. Meaning, it wasn't an art school. While I had a ton of fun, I knew I wasn't going to make a career out of it.

On a related note... every person I know personally that went into graphic design, now does wedding photography...

[Deleted]

Neither webdev nor graphics design is software engineering if you ask me. You don't even need to study that at Uni. So choose neither, unless those are the only choices - then choose whatever and suffer thru it.

only choices for year 2 :/ its to give an idea for specializations later on..

[callipygoustp]

Always looked at graphics design as a social science of the computer science genre.

I know A LOT of people with graphic design chops/experience including myself. I know very VERY few people who actually make a living at it.

With regards to web development, yep, definitely a lot of people out there with the skills but definitely still not enough people to fill all the job openings.

[Tyrianth]

What worries me is the fact that you said that i should focus on being a problem solver and not a programmer? I love programming more than problem solving which might cause some trouble?

A good programmer is a good problem solver. If you don't want to be a problem solver then you'll most likely end up as a code monkey, and as xcureanddisease said, code monkeys don't typically make a lot of money.

[Rad1um]

Yes and Graphic Design is about as useful as a Fine Art degree. The degree won't matter... your portfolio will.

This is 100% true.

@OP Yes problem solving. Again we farm our mindless programming tasks to India. If you just want to sit down and churn out code all day, im sure SOMEONE, somewhere will hire you... eventually...

Or you can make yourself a viable candidate that will make a great living for himself by being a problem solver.

The secret to a successful problem solver is: Google and ask the people around you. break down the problem, solve the easy portions, then work on the hard part with a couple people. Reach out to people and after they've helped you, make sure you pay them in kind.

[Draeth]

Really? Because it's probably the most crowded field I've ever seen and probably over 90% of the work can be done by interns or farmed out cheap because it's so basic.

Some of the more specialized elements of putting content on the web are in-demand, but just plain front-end or basic back-end stuff? Heh, yeah, show me an open job for that and I'll show you a job with 12,000 applicants.

Like I said, someone who doesn't know what they're talking about. The "90%" work you're talking about is website design, not web development. Web developers are software engineers who build web-based software (the "specialized elements"), IE, the people who develop Facebook, Twitter, Google, etc.

Web developers don't use HTML or Javascript. Those are the UX/Front-end developers.

Web development is mostly server side work which a very high paying job and requires knowledgeable understanding of multiple different programming languages, scripting languages, understanding of database schema/development.

OP: Go for Web Development, web designers are a dime a dozen.

This is good and accurate advice.

3) You need to start learning how to solve problems in low level languages like C/C++

4) Read #3. YOU NEED TO LEARN HOW TO >SOLVE PROBLEMS< in a low level language.

5) "I know how to code" != problem solver.

This is great advice. A strong grasp of logic, math, and data structures are the foundations of good engineering.

Learning C++ was the best thing I ever did, educationally.

I know!! and i have heard it before sadly :/ But i feel like making games would be a nice hobby for me! But what i want to master is pure software engineering

If you want to make games as a hobby, you're not going to be doing any graphic design anyway. Hobbyist game development is done in established game engines (Unreal, Unity, etc). You aren't going to be writing your own game engine as a hobby and you're never going to touch the rendering process in a published one.

For reference, I'm a web developer with an education in software engineering specialized in game and sim engineering (and I couldn't tell you the last time I wrote an html document, by the way).

[Elim Garak]

only choices for year 2 :/ its to give an idea for specializations later on..

Then if I were you, I would choose webdev - as it is at least somewhat useful and you won't need to learn it in spare time if you choose to learn it in Uni.
I don't know what they teach in graphics design but from the name of it it has nothing to do with software engineering. I could be wrong.

[Nakotsu]

Hi everyone, i am currently studying software engineering in Edinburgh and im about to start year 2. We have the choice between graphics design or web developement for this year.

I am more leaning on graphics design because then i can do more by myself (game programming with GUI etc) but i think maybe web developement ( HTML , PHP & Javascript) could be much more useful. If any of you have experience with those fields could you tell me what do you think of them and if you have any suggestions?

I am thinking that i could easily learn html,php and javascript on my spare time since it doesnt seem that hard and I already know html.

Thank you!

Edit: Here is the module descriptions

Web development:
1. Overview of technologies involved in the development of web sites.
2. Basic networking protocols for the Internet
3. Web page design and development.
4. Client & server side programming using PHP & Javascript

Graphics Design:

This module will cover the fundamental concepts required for interactive graphics programming. Basic mathematical concepts for computer graphics shall be covered throughout the module. Introducing graphical systems and the rendering pipeline, the module will go through creating 3D graphical objects and the use of virtual cameras to interact with the applications made. Particular concepts covered will include terrain rendering, lighting, texturing and the use of 3D models. High level concepts such as programming of the graphical pipeline via shaders and procedural generation of content shall also be covered.

Edit2: Life goals:

I am planning on going into machine learning and AI for my masters and future job applications because its what i am very interested in, not games programming but i still think graphics design could prove more useful at some point of my life? or even as a hobby to make some fun games

id drop that course completely if thats what they are going to teach you and the only choices you get.
Then Id talor make a course and pick only programming languages such as C C++ and Java and Javascript. These are used in making games. Check out unity3d.com for more information about how to make a game. Also maybe throw in a modeling course. Graphic design and rendering and all that is useful but its not at the same time and web develpment yea thats the most useless course of them all for game design.

It seems like you are trying to learn a lot of programming languages but not being too specific which might end up hurting you in the future. Its great to know the concepts but when you hit that brick wall trying to code and its not working for you well then your SOL.

[Polyxo]

It really depends on what they entail. If web development is designing and integrating a complex product to include or use some form of web support, and something web designers can't half do themselves, then webdev is pretty good. Graphics is probably not going to be something as a software engineer you'll use directly, but it's pretty complicated, and shows you have the linear algebra skills to do stuff like natural language processing.

[Deleted]

It is very simple. If you are doing a technical/STEM degree, do whatever is most mathematical, unless you literally cannot stomach it.

1. Math knowledge, awareness and qualifications makes the biggest impact on your working life, re-use of skills, employability and pay/compensation in the long run, by far. It is also much harder to obtain anywhere else at a later date outside of academia. Finally, there are far less people with strong mathematical skills, even among technical people - which is why they get paid much higher.

2. By contrast, literally anyone with a modicum of problem solving ability and computer skill, can become a web developer. ANYONE at all, even with a completely non-technical background. It is not wise to invest in a field that your mom could do right now, when on the global stage you are competing with millions of Chinese and Indian students with STEM degrees and PhDs.

3. On top of that, your aspirations are in highly mathematical fields, i.e. Machine Learning.

So, in this case, "Graphics Design" is the obvious choice.

[Ryme]

Far more job prospects with web development, but if you're doing a masters it'll likely trump both on your CV callback potential.

[Deleted]

First of all thank you for all the responses, i need to clarify a few things:

1) I do NOT want to persue games development in any form or kind, only as a hobby on my spare time because i like the idea of making games for fun.

2) My course so far has been : C++, C, Advanced Maths & Logic, Computer Systems, UI & UX, Java. Year 2 i will be learning SQL, C#, Linux (not really sure what there), Server handling and one of these choices.

3) My goal is to end up in a big company (hopefully) not as a programming monkey but as a problem solver as @xcureanddisease said. I, so far, have been very interested in programming & problem solving and i am looking forward for more.

It seems like Web Development would be more helpful, even slightly, for my career. I will give it more thought and hopefully there will be more opinions coming into this thread.

[Deleted]

Given what you've told us, probably. Not by much, it sounds like a very basic class, but likely more helpful than the graphical one.

From what ive heard it is a very basic class. But people also said that i wont be doing much graphical design if i use unity so that also kindof made me change my mind a bit

[Draeth]

Hahah, what? No. A huge percentage of the server-side stuff is farmed out nowadays.

I don't know that I would go so far as to say "a huge percentage," but yes, some simplistic backend modular stuff gets farmed out in big biz. That's generally reserved for projects that are either in top-to-bottom MVC frameworks which are practically plug-and-play, or trivial one-off stuff like WordPress micro-sites.

The company I work for has an internal webdev team, an external webdev team, and four major subsidiaries with their own webdev teams, each managing a backend architecture that, at the smalest, is five separate backline servers and one front-facing load balancer with a dynamic cluster size, and the largest is four load balanced clusters and another dozen task servers behind them. Yes, it's much smaller than the multi-billion dollar tech giants, but it's still a huge in-house environment and there are thousands, probably tens-of-thousands of companies this size in the US.

Sure, if you can actually land a job at Facebook, Twitter or Google you've got yourself set. Generally speaking though, those jobs are very hard to come by and absurdly competitive. Maybe there IS a "high demand" but there's a vastly higher supply. ("Entry-level" doesn't even exist with this stuff, you're either an intern or you're grossly overqualified.)

Like I said the last time this topic came up: Show me one of these companies that's actually "having trouble recruiting" or something, because I'd apply to them in a heartbeat. The reality is that it's not a field I'd recommend anyone go into if they're really looking for a reliable return on any investment they put into it.

Honestly? If that's a sincere request, my best advice would be to make a thorough, professional LinkedIn profile and start looking there. I landed this job from a LinkedIn recruiter with only a bit over a year of experience at a tiny hole in the ground startup, and I get recruitment offers at least twice a month now, usually more.

Again...what? No. Just because you use Unity to make the game doesn't mean that you still don't need to design graphics for the game elements, world, UI, and so on. Sure, you can farm that out too, but it's harder to "farm out" a creative vision. It's always helpful to know the details of the various elements behind the scenes on that stuff, too. Even if you use an extremely "basic" tool like GM or CTF.

(Edit: Meh, the OP got edited, I wrote this before I read it. That design course does sound kinda meh overall, I have to agree. I thought it'd be more about using a tool like Blender or something.)

Yeah, if we were talking about actual graphic design my opinion might be different (though probably not for someone looking to focus on code), but reading between the lines of the OP's course description, I have enough experience to know that it's probably just a crash-course in outdated DirectX and OpenGL rendering, which is bordering on useless even for someone who does want to build game engines, beyond getting a conceptual understanding of how the rendering pipeline flows.

[Draeth]

12 years ago I got a great paying job just swinging around some HTML, now everyone and their brother are experts in every language and framework and have the credentials to back it all up. I'm just always dumbfounded when I hear people talk about there being a "shortage" in these fields. Not to mention the absolutely staggering number of cheap freelancers looking for gigs.

It's entirely because the demand is just so high. Every company needs a website. Big companies need a huge web presence in today's world. With the expectation that practically every brand has at the bare minimum a mobile app and a website with an integrated backend, need for web developers is almost as ubiquitous as accounting and human resources these days. The company I'm at owns something like 30 external mobile apps (most of which also have backand plus separate iOS and Android devs), and our internal team has 2 for each platform.

I would never recommend anyone go into freelance, though. That is a horribly saturated market with poor pay and no benefits, and freelancers get treated like garbage by most companies that use them.