So...what's the deal with arcane magic?

[Psychotrip]

Probably to cause chaos and meddle with the lives of mortals, or because they've been mobilized into action by the Legion. Regardless, they're still apparently drawn to arcane magic (unless that's been retconned as well).

As late as 2014, according to Dave Kosak, arcane magic has been described as an expression of pure, applied mana, like steam pressure in relation to water (https://twitter.com/DaveKosak/status/460606565767081984). The mana-forges in netherstorm are harvesting mana from the twisting nether. That, along with all previous lore claiming arcane magic is associated with the nether, makes it seem like this new stuff is a retcon.

[zaxrem]

Not an expert on warcraft lore,but I've spend...some time reading books and looking stuff up.

First of all,the Twisting Nether isn't exactly a dark place...it's a combination of both light and dark,and all the things that they foster.

Arcane power is drawn from the Twisting nether and is harnessed by mages. It can be destructive if you don't use it properly or don't know how to use it,but the power itself was supposedly created (?) or first used to "install" order into the chaos the whole universe was. Like others mentioned,nuclear power is a good metaphor to link it. It's catastrophic,but the architecture of atoms is based on nuclear power.

[Mace]

I can't explain how Arcane magic represents Order, but I think a lot of your other confusion is a result of information from different sources that contradict.

The Chronicle is the newest lore on this topic, and retcons those other sources. The main thing is that the Legion was not lured to Azeroth due to the use of arcane magic. It was simply everyone's best guess as to why they were drawn there, because we didn't know anything about world-souls yet (and I'm not sure whether we actually know that in Legion either, at least not right away).

Arcane magic is just magic now, without any innate problems.

yes, this is pretty much more like it.

until chronicle, what we knew about arcane magic was pretty much the point of view of the mages we met, then some of the skewed views of the night elves whose experience is characterized by their horrible catastrophe. One of the things i and many others found hard to pin point was if arcane was actually truly bad in and of itself or alluring in the way a lot of power might tempt a person, including light power as we see happen several times.

It was the latter, that's part of the big reveal, and it actually makes a lot of sense, the emphasis shifts from arcane itself being bad to how you use it. Some people used it really badly, others did not. Night elves thought it was the reason the Legion came, they were wrong, didn't believe Illidan because they thought he was a traitor and restarted the well to draw the legion back, didn't believe Darth'remar that it could be used without alerting the demons because they couldn't trust him - afterall, his highborne group,, the zin'azshari highborne had been the ones afterall that had worked on the portal bringing the demons and though they did right in the end, they seemed like the sort who would say anything to keep using magic - and the stakes were too high.

Notice how the night elves continued taking advantage of the power of the arcane source - all the moonwells, the world tree - all flourished immensely because of the well of eternity they remained connected too. tehy took it's waters all over and venerated it even thoguh they didn't trust the use of the power for spells. This earns them the scorn of the highborne groups, who feel them silly and superstitious to not make use of such an amazing source.

Sometimes we thought that corruption was their main hesitation, but it's clear that it was a minor concern, the major concern was using the well for spells would bring the legion back, and they had no trusting experts, no experts in magic they could trust to tell them otherwise - Illidan who'd just killed some soldiers and was marked as he was by Sargeras in ways they didn't understsand and ofc the Zin'Azshari highborne - they had no knowledge the Eldre'thalas highborne had survived or that their home city of Suramar had survived and saved by magic too, wielded by highborne who not only survived but used their magic responsibly, rebelling against Queen and fighting demon succesfully - if they had had the Suramar magic users with them, it may have been a different story, but they didnt', and the Blue flight, who could have shown them otherwise, was also in isolation, and so, they dropped arcane usage for spells but still were surrounded by it.


Confirming that the arcane source in itself has always been good. Corruption is subjective, while it can corrupt a person, it's only in the sense of how power corrupts if you let it. Azshara being so amazing to them could get corrupted by such an amazing thing they thought could do no wrong? this meant to them it was volatile. But the arcane was what had made them night elves, and until she went bonkers it was the heart of everything that had been amazing for them.

it's through the arcane they built wonderful cities and shaped forests and landscapes with incredible beauty, with the arcane they worked in concert with nature and the Ancients (druid trees) and the divine (Elune) was intertwined and directly linked with the Well and usage - combining holy with the arcane. This all worked beautiful until Azshara went off - and for 10k years, the night elves will blame the arcane for that.

it's only in coming out of isolation they would discover several things. Especially when they meet with high elves, humans, draenei and the other highborne groups like the Shen'drelar, the moonguard and the nightborne that not everyone is corrupted by arcane usage, it can certainly be masked from the demons and is not the reason why they are here - this and the revelation about Illidan that is coming, will potentially change much of their prejudice on arcane usage.

WE already know much of it has changed already, since cata and the Shen'drelar , but the hurts from the war of the ancients, the lack of night elves that wield magic responsibly on the large scale is still thin and the view on Illidan was still betrayal, this changes with the nightborne and the 3rd legion invasion. With the nightborne they meet a larger society, their own family and friends who survived, that used magic responsibly for 10k years - the irony is that the corruption in the nightwell that causes the withered state, has nothing to do with magical misuse, abuse or recklessness, furthermore, Elisande who stood so staunchly alongside their family and friends and fellow citizens they left behind, she gave in to the legion, without any magical corruption - previously they blamed Azshara's legion affliation to arcane over usage and recklessness addling her mind, this was true ofc, but to then conclude this was the inevitable end direction of everyone who used magic would now only after 10k years and the events of WoW finally reveal to the night elves this is not the case.

This is part of the reason I feel they have started using arcane magic again, and giving some measure of trust to the highborne, but some reservations would remain until they meet the nightborne under Thalyssra and the Moonguard, Elisande's betrayal and Thalyssra's courage are both a testimony to a person's character being the deciding factor rather than magic twisting your mind , in whether you do what's right or wrong. And after Cordana Felsong's betrayal or Fandral Staghelm to name a couple, the corruption of the druids from the nightmare, no scorn will be poured on magic users.

This heralds a significant shift in attitude. Night elves can finally after 10k years begin to heal from the mis-conceptions of magic and the grief of what happened in the War of the Ancients, the grief of losing their loved ones, which they are about to discover weren't so lost afterall. And ofc Illidan and the Legion, now returning and finally the truth about the whole thing coming out.

It's time for a lot of healing for the night elves, or at least potentially is, the rift on arcane magic healing.

But know this, the rift healing on arcane magic is happening largely because now Fel is the true corrupting magical force. Fel is the one that is like the drugs, highly addictive but with no good benefit to you. Sure any power including light power can corrupt you if you use for selfish gains - Akama and Nexus Prince Hasaad avoid the temptation of the light based Atam'al crystals and hand them over to the player to hand to A'dal - but fel, well Fel, intoxifies and destroys the body - fills the head with promises, but also twists the very nature of your person, horribly mutating you in ways that are not natural.

I wouldn't be surprised if when the microscope is put on Azshara's life, Fel and early legion contact would be shown to play a role in her demise as it would be fair to say that the type of magic would have been unknown to the night elves who became such masters of the arcane, and Azshara could have also stumbled across it and the legion in secret long before it is brought about to the open. Probably standing up well against it, but been subtley changed and manipulated. who knows.


What I do know is that the revelations of Chronicles make the story a lot better and a lot more sense, fills in a lot of gaps, it is very very helpful to know that Arcane is not corrupt, it helped me much understand exactly what the night elves were going through, what they would have thought, and the clues are all their - from the opening narrative and wotA even though details have been altered - i think this was part of the plan - the difference is, whether the arcane was pure or not was still a mystery and area of debate to us until it was finally confirmed, armed with that knowledge we find it possible to much better understand what is going on in their world

[Vynny]

Well a few things first, there is a link between arcane magic and fel magic. Demons are the denizens of the twisting nether and the source of arcane magic is the twisting nether as well. Fel and arcane are essentially two sides of the same coin.

Arcane magic is essentially about creating order from chaos. You take advantage of the innate chaos of the universe and force it into order.

Fel magic is the opposite.

The common thread between them is that they are both used to manipulate the fabric of the universe itself.

In legion, you do a quest where you help a nightfallen (dark elf who was cut off from their source of arcane magic) learn about fel magic as a substitute and he describes it as blunt (in comparison to arcane magic which he was used to). Personally, I think this is to speak at the nature of the magic itself, arcane magic is sharp. It requires the something akin to surgical precision to wield. You need to understand how the forces you're tampering with work and explicitly control each and every detail, essentially it requires the ability to order things for you to use it. Fel magic as was stated is much more blunt. It's the universal monkey wrench of sorts. You use it and just start breaking everything.

As far as the rules of magic. Power is corrupting, and magic is powerful. That's what I get from it at least. I mean how else would you describe the ability to bend or even break the laws of the universe itself besides "powerful"[

magic is addicting, and this is shown with the night elves, blood elves, and nightborne (nightfallen not cut off from their source of arcane power). Magic is not only a source of power, but a form of sustenance. It's responsible for turning dark trolls into night elves and murloc into jinyu. Naturally, when you become biologically dependent on something, you become addicted.

magic attracts evil. The source of magic itself is the home of evil (the burning legion). It's sort of like siphoning power from your neighbor's house when your neighbor is a serial killer. He's gonna notice, and when he does, you had better be prepared.

I hope this helps you understand things about arcane and fel magic a bit better.

[Psychotrip]

- - - Updated - - -

yes, this is pretty much more like it.

until chronicle, what we knew about arcane magic was pretty much the point of view of the mages we met, then some of the skewed views of the night elves whose experience is characterized by their horrible catastrophe. One of the things i and many others found hard to pin point was if arcane was actually truly bad in and of itself or alluring in the way a lot of power might tempt a person, including light power as we see happen several times.

It was the latter, that's part of the big reveal, and it actually makes a lot of sense, the emphasis shifts from arcane itself being bad to how you use it. Some people used it really badly, others did not. Night elves thought it was the reason the Legion came, they were wrong, didn't believe Illidan because they thought he was a traitor and restarted the well to draw the legion back, didn't believe Darth'remar that it could be used without alerting the demons because they couldn't trust him - afterall, his highborne group,, the zin'azshari highborne had been the ones afterall that had worked on the portal bringing the demons and though they did right in the end, they seemed like the sort who would say anything to keep using magic - and the stakes were too high.

Notice how the night elves continued taking advantage of the power of the arcane source - all the moonwells, the world tree - all flourished immensely because of the well of eternity they remained connected too. tehy took it's waters all over and venerated it even thoguh they didn't trust the use of the power for spells. This earns them the scorn of the highborne groups, who feel them silly and superstitious to not make use of such an amazing source.

Sometimes we thought that corruption was their main hesitation, but it's clear that it was a minor concern, the major concern was using the well for spells would bring the legion back, and they had no trusting experts, no experts in magic they could trust to tell them otherwise - Illidan who'd just killed some soldiers and was marked as he was by Sargeras in ways they didn't understsand and ofc the Zin'Azshari highborne - they had no knowledge the Eldre'thalas highborne had survived or that their home city of Suramar had survived and saved by magic too, wielded by highborne who not only survived but used their magic responsibly, rebelling against Queen and fighting demon succesfully - if they had had the Suramar magic users with them, it may have been a different story, but they didnt', and the Blue flight, who could have shown them otherwise, was also in isolation, and so, they dropped arcane usage for spells but still were surrounded by it.


Confirming that the arcane source in itself has always been good. Corruption is subjective, while it can corrupt a person, it's only in the sense of how power corrupts if you let it. Azshara being so amazing to them could get corrupted by such an amazing thing they thought could do no wrong? this meant to them it was volatile. But the arcane was what had made them night elves, and until she went bonkers it was the heart of everything that had been amazing for them.

it's through the arcane they built wonderful cities and shaped forests and landscapes with incredible beauty, with the arcane they worked in concert with nature and the Ancients (druid trees) and the divine (Elune) was intertwined and directly linked with the Well and usage - combining holy with the arcane. This all worked beautiful until Azshara went off - and for 10k years, the night elves will blame the arcane for that.

it's only in coming out of isolation they would discover several things. Especially when they meet with high elves, humans, draenei and the other highborne groups like the Shen'drelar, the moonguard and the nightborne that not everyone is corrupted by arcane usage, it can certainly be masked from the demons and is not the reason why they are here - this and the revelation about Illidan that is coming, will potentially change much of their prejudice on arcane usage.

WE already know much of it has changed already, since cata and the Shen'drelar , but the hurts from the war of the ancients, the lack of night elves that wield magic responsibly on the large scale is still thin and the view on Illidan was still betrayal, this changes with the nightborne and the 3rd legion invasion. With the nightborne they meet a larger society, their own family and friends who survived, that used magic responsibly for 10k years - the irony is that the corruption in the nightwell that causes the withered state, has nothing to do with magical misuse, abuse or recklessness, furthermore, Elisande who stood so staunchly alongside their family and friends and fellow citizens they left behind, she gave in to the legion, without any magical corruption - previously they blamed Azshara's legion affliation to arcane over usage and recklessness addling her mind, this was true ofc, but to then conclude this was the inevitable end direction of everyone who used magic would now only after 10k years and the events of WoW finally reveal to the night elves this is not the case.

This is part of the reason I feel they have started using arcane magic again, and giving some measure of trust to the highborne, but some reservations would remain until they meet the nightborne under Thalyssra and the Moonguard, Elisande's betrayal and Thalyssra's courage are both a testimony to a person's character being the deciding factor rather than magic twisting your mind , in whether you do what's right or wrong. And after Cordana Felsong's betrayal or Fandral Staghelm to name a couple, the corruption of the druids from the nightmare, no scorn will be poured on magic users.

This heralds a significant shift in attitude. Night elves can finally after 10k years begin to heal from the mis-conceptions of magic and the grief of what happened in the War of the Ancients, the grief of losing their loved ones, which they are about to discover weren't so lost afterall. And ofc Illidan and the Legion, now returning and finally the truth about the whole thing coming out.

It's time for a lot of healing for the night elves, or at least potentially is, the rift on arcane magic healing.

But know this, the rift healing on arcane magic is happening largely because now Fel is the true corrupting magical force. Fel is the one that is like the drugs, highly addictive but with no good benefit to you. Sure any power including light power can corrupt you if you use for selfish gains - Akama and Nexus Prince Hasaad avoid the temptation of the light based Atam'al crystals and hand them over to the player to hand to A'dal - but fel, well Fel, intoxifies and destroys the body - fills the head with promises, but also twists the very nature of your person, horribly mutating you in ways that are not natural.

I wouldn't be surprised if when the microscope is put on Azshara's life, Fel and early legion contact would be shown to play a role in her demise as it would be fair to say that the type of magic would have been unknown to the night elves who became such masters of the arcane, and Azshara could have also stumbled across it and the legion in secret long before it is brought about to the open. Probably standing up well against it, but been subtley changed and manipulated. who knows.


What I do know is that the revelations of Chronicles make the story a lot better and a lot more sense, fills in a lot of gaps, it is very very helpful to know that Arcane is not corrupt, it helped me much understand exactly what the night elves were going through, what they would have thought, and the clues are all their - from the opening narrative and wotA even though details have been altered - i think this was part of the plan - the difference is, whether the arcane was pure or not was still a mystery and area of debate to us until it was finally confirmed, armed with that knowledge we find it possible to much better understand what is going on in their world

While I can't say I like this new interpretation of the canon, this is the first explanation that's actually made sense. I still much prefer the idea of arcane magic as a neutral but corrupting / volatile chaotic force, with fel magic being its more pure or more corrupt cousin depending on who you ask, but I at least can better understand this now. I also hate the idea that everyone on Azeroth was just "wrong" about arcane's corrupting influence up until now, but I guess that's just how it is now.

One thing I still don't get though is why arcane magic is so addictive. Clearly the blood elves had a serious issue with that.

[Mace]

One can hardly talk about the arcane without talking about the night elves, as the entire being of the elf is as a result of the arcane. WotA hints at the secret that they inextricably linked to the Well, it is part of them and they of it - almost like they are from magic.

We find out ofc, while the Well is from where all life on Azeroth emerges, whether it was the flora and fauna Freya seeds or the wild gods that emerge followed by the sentient species, the well takes already sentient trolls with a unique attitude, temperament and spirit that is described as noble and further develops them.

The arcane source is the reason for their being. Their curiosity leads them to establish an arcane society that grows to an unparalleled level. As they explore the Well, and their heightened intelligence discerns titan words and terms, they also discern elune too and sicover her deity and thus she becomes their God. Very perceptive. Along the way, their peaceful yet bright and curious nature endears them to Cenarius, he teaches them about the natural world, nature and here they develop an affinity for it, an area they are also quite talented at in addition to the arcane they ar emastering and the divine they are being led by. I reckon this is the point they learn to wake up the trees, discover ancients etc. Although in time as the y progress furhter into the arcane under Azshara's leadership, towards the end, they'd veer of in a direction that doesn't revere nature. We find out Azshara becomes cold and callous about everyone even the priesthood is found at odds with her and relocates to Suramar - this is around the time of the Legion's arrival. Maybe the priesthood's presnece is what alters Suramar society or inspires it to reject Azshara and her pact with the demons , who knows, but a pattern is emerging.

Suramar is who produces Malfurion, Illidan, Tyrande, Jarond, Maiev, in fact the bulk of the forces that march to Zin'Azshari fighting the demons, they come from Suramar, those that are left behidn are shown or rather revealed now in Legion to be no less formidable than those who marched out and they become the first real success story of night elven arcane magic being used positively by a large society against the demons and not complicit with them. This may hold significance later in relation between the post vigil north western kalimdor group of night elves, and their kin on the broken isles, esp the nightborne under Thalyssra.

I also find it interesting, and notice this is missed by nearly all the wow playing population, that blizzard never divorced the arcane from the night elves, they introduced them with a nature focus - but the way they introduced them, the arcane was always an integral part - whether as loathed or venerated ( and we saw both) it was integral to their history and their present - all the moonwells are arcane sources, this has been the case from day one. the hints of night elves coming from trolls and the well playing a role is the work of an arcane source, the glowy eyes, and hidden power, the fabled pre-sundering civilization - even in not using it for spells, they make full use of the waters' properties - and half of us expected some sort of re-connection to the arcane and that finally came in Cata.

But as long as night elves were not the focus, it was always going to be largely ignored or not explored much. I for one never felt that the story of the night elves could be generalized and lumped into - "the nature Elves" or "the forest Elves" -- it was from the beginning far too diverse for that, far too arcane and priestly influenced for such a simplistic generalization. Sure the drudic played a large role, but it was only part of it, and they had this under pining side, to me, I viewed it as only part of their story that was to be further developed. But I can forgive those who after 12 years of little to no advancement, thought this was all their was ever meant to be of them.

Blizzard has a way of doing it's own unique thing. You can't peg night elves like other fantasy groups - they may be the dark elves, but they were more than that, they may be or seem forest elves but they were more than that. In fact it is only the half-nigh elf Cenarians that can be pegged as the proper forest elves. the main group seems to embody more than just nature, it is born in arcane, has strong priestly and nature ties to it. And thus is most WoW races, they don't just have one thing to them. Orcs may have started out just as monsters, but they are certainly a lot more than that, not just good as warriors but also warlocks and shaman - and this is the case for every group, having strong aspects to them, with the lore opening up or revealing or returning certain aspects to the m.

[bloodmoth13]

I suppose when you consider order, you could think of it as a hammer, you give a hammer to a builder and he builds something, give it to a monkey and he breaks stuff.

Arcane creates things within the world as a magic of creation, but its difficult to understand, and the results are chaotic when those who misunderstand it break the rules and fuck up. In this case, the magic itself is stable if used correctly, but users interpretations are chaotic as imperfect entities cant work with arcane the same way the titans did.

Also, in the case or necromancy, arcane literally means "understood by few; mysterious or secret.", which applies to necromancy as it is understood by few, in which case we take arcane as an adjective and not the literal school of magic.

as for fel being the most pure form of arcane energy, im at a loss.

To be quite frank, i have never understood what they were trying to do with arcane, and even now i have no idea what it would feel like to be hit by arcane blast. Its use in game is confusing, and even now i have no idea how druids star magic relates to mages arcane magic. Arcane shot has been my most hated ability in the game since ever, i have no idea why a hunter would be enchanting an arrow with magic understood by few, would make more sense for it to be searing shot or something

[Mace]

- - - Updated - - -



While I can't say I like this new interpretation of the canon, this is the first explanation that's actually made sense. I still much prefer the idea of arcane magic as a neutral but corrupting / volatile chaotic force, with fel magic being its more pure or more corrupt cousin depending on who you ask, but I at least can better understand this now. I also hate the idea that everyone on Azeroth was just "wrong" about arcane's corrupting influence up until now, but I guess that's just how it is now.

One thing I still don't get though is why arcane magic is so addictive. Clearly the blood elves had a serious issue with that.

I don't think they are saying everyone is wrong about arcane's corrupting influence, it's more like it's not intrinsically because of the nature of the stuff. it's because it's very powerful and feels good - it's easier to morally compromise yourself because of the power surge you get. Now that can make a person more susceptible to becoming corrupt if his/her heart is not pure and/or highly disciplined.

Afterall you don't want to put the enormous amount of power - whether civil, physical, electrical or magical in the hands of a person whose character is not suitable or strong enough to wield it well. And you have to understand that though sometimes you take every precaution you can, sometimes people do give in to temptation or seduction and go bad - we find out that the Legion has been the great source of this, Fel by nature does this, with the arcane the person needs some encouragement. The elves learnt long ago that you must also wield power responsibly, they didn't err their, they just found out that despite being of impeccable character you can still fall, and the night elves may have initially wrongly attributed that soley to arcane usage for spells. Notice that we now understand they attribute it not to the arcane source, but to the usage of the source for spells - and they do this based on the experience of their Queen, and the horrors that ensued with the Legion's invasion, a view that they have only been able to correct recently because they were in isolation for 10k years with no one else to tell them otherwise - thanks to an absent blue flight and cutting off contact with everyone (it's not called isolation for no reason)

[Zenny]

A lot of the more ridiculous notions of Arcane Magic has been changed, like the nonsense of the four laws. Arcane magic is neither inherently corrupting or addicting.

[Mace]

I suppose when you consider order, you could think of it as a hammer, you give a hammer to a builder and he builds something, give it to a monkey and he breaks stuff.

Arcane creates things within the world as a magic of creation, but its difficult to understand, and the results are chaotic when those who misunderstand it break the rules and fuck up. In this case, the magic itself is stable if used correctly, but users interpretations are chaotic as imperfect entities cant work with arcane the same way the titans did.

Also, in the case or necromancy, arcane literally means "understood by few; mysterious or secret.", which applies to necromancy as it is understood by few, in which case we take arcane as an adjective and not the literal school of magic.

as for fel being the most pure form of arcane energy, im at a loss.

To be quite frank, i have never understood what they were trying to do with arcane, and even now i have no idea what it would feel like to be hit by arcane blast. Its use in game is confusing, and even now i have no idea how druids star magic relates to mages arcane magic. Arcane shot has been my most hated ability in the game since ever, i have no idea why a hunter would be enchanting an arrow with magic understood by few, would make more sense for it to be searing shot or something

Your assertion is correct. Being a video game with fighting, it is natural you may assume or think only in terms of combat, but from a lore perspective, you're building a world, not just a combat focused game and have to go well beyond just fighting.

The arcane is order, you can think of it as the way they order things according to a pattern, quite conducive to building and creating. Sure you can use what you build or create destructively, but the essence is still bringing things to order - which is what exists in the Azeroth universe. It's converse the twisting nether is far more chaotic, and unordered.

You can see in the night elven civilization, like when they built Suramar or Zin Azshari, you have to order a lot of things, much of it is building and creating all manner of things, this is why the greatness of the civilizaiton can make a night elf arcane user far more knowledgeable about so much but still be matched by a much younger mage in terms of combat. Because the arcane is more than about combat, and combat is just a part - or using it to fight - this is what the Moonguard specialized in for e.g. and Battle mages too, but the study of magic goes far beyond that. Partly I think the reason the blood elves defeat the highborne shen'drelar night elves so easily is not necessarily because all their magical knowledge is superior, but likely just their combat knowledge - afterall Shen'drelar society unlike nightborne or moonguard had been in decline for probably a few thousand years anyway, and despite all that ancient knoweldge, youc an celarly see by the state of their city, combat and magic for fighting was not their concern or highest priority - but almost immediately after the sundering you see them able to not only trap an immensely powerful demon, but siphon it's power without being distorted by Fel - now that takes a degree of magical expertise and knowledge we certainly don't see amongst the blood elves even 10k years later, as they need Illidan for fel magic and are unable to use it relatively safely, whiles these guys solved that conundrum 10k years ago. Except the demon did get to the pricne and did corrupt him eventually over time - meaning that despite their obvious mastery, they bit off more than they could chew, and their hubris or arrogance in their capability probably landed them in that trouble to start with.

So yes, that's another thing about power, you can get over confident. too over confident. Need to know when it's too much for you, and part of the "recklessness" of Azshara and her posey was they didn't know when to stop or slow down or control - or rather they did, but they ignored it. Usually a priesthood is really good for helping in that balance.. but she expels the priesthood from Zin'Azshari which is why they return to Suramar, before Tyrande gets elevated to High Preistess there. You notice how the high elves have their priesthood a very strong part of their society, it probably helped keep them in balance and a certain level of humility, is it co-incidence that after abandoning the light for a short period in TFT-TBC that the blood elves go all reckless, fuelled by anger, grief, hatred and obviously being disgraced by a a mere human, they throw to wind the caution and balance that characterised their high elven ideals, and went on a power grab to ensure no one would ever humiliate them , went all reckless and it led them straight to the Legion.

Altruis in Nagrand in describing Vareidis mentions that with the objective of only gaining power as your purpose, the great power a demon hunter has to wield will eventually corrupt you. You must be pure of heart to be able to do this and remain sane or it will consume you. Later he is tempted by the Book of Fel Names you bring him , but resists it as he hands it to you to take on Varedis at the Black Temple Terrace.

This is ofc not unique to the arcane, or fel, but all forms of power, magical, civil, political, anything that potentiallly can make you so much more. it is even more imperative to be pure and highly disciplind with innately seductive and intoxifying forces like fel, but you must be mindful with any degree of power. And we have seen examples from all magical areas go bad, even those wielding the light. druids in nature, shaman in elements - and you can say nature magic is quite pure as is the elements but we know how destructive they can be turned to when the wielder goes bad. But that goes the same for person wielding an axe or just a knife.

It's usually the person not the tool, but in the case of Fel, the power itself is corrupting, so the fight is much harder. IT's interesting that night elves were concerned bout corruption of the arcane, and yet a night elf like Illidan or Altruis manage to wield a far more corrupting power than the arcane and resist, this surely shows the night elves they are much more capable than they think... or, do they already know that, and the real reason for their abstinence was not fear of corruption primarily, that was a smaller aspect, it was fear that usage would return the legion. It's easy when you hear it repeatedly because you play a video game over and over again, to think just one statement domiantes the view of an entire people, so I think we may have been a bit overly biased via repition and made something that was rather minor, a lot more major. But the narrative nicely provides a good context and perspective to view in, and helps correct such errors if we have the mind to let it.

[Florena]

I have a question about arcane. Is it just the Titans who are weak to fel magic, or is arcane weak to fel magic in general? I know the former is true from the chronicle, but a guild mate was telling me that arcane magic in general is weak to fel, so was wondering if that was true or not.

[Mace]

A lot of the more ridiculous notions of Arcane Magic has been changed, like the nonsense of the four laws. Arcane magic is neither inherently corrupting or addicting.

yes, the beauty about it is that they can just chalk it down to in-game characters got it wrong.. afterall most of them are still learning, and you don't really get to talk to blue dragons directly about it nor ancient night elven high/nightborne who would have been able to set you straight about it.

you either hear from the much younger less experienced humans or high/blood elves (500 years old lifespan)? and we ofc have heard the rather biased vigil night elf view too, who's context has now been focused properly and turned out to have more depth than we originally thoguht but still biased. it's not like we have been able to ask the Draenei mages too, who would probably know as well.

Funny none of the big magic groups have commented on it - the blue dragonflight, the night elven high/nightborne or the draenei - and yet we've seen them largely actaully use magic corruption free (shend'relar may have messed up, but remember Estulan and Evenshade are regarded as uncorrupted highborne, and all indications so far of the nightborne civilization are as well - at least so much for their part in magical usage)

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I have a question about arcane. Is it just the Titans who are weak to fel magic, or is arcane weak to fel magic in general? I know the former is true from the chronicle, but a guild mate was telling me that arcane magic in general is weak to fel, so was wondering if that was true or not.

i've never thought it was, but we had that arcane v fel thread a while ago remember. Fel is destructive by nature, arcane is order (as in building ) by nature.. so when it comes to combat, Fel would be at first much easier and better suited to destroying than arcane, --- but anything that can be used to build can be turned to destructive purposes, you just have to get creative about it - and in that way, the arcane can be used very effectively to fight too, you just have to learn how to counteract it.

Part of the titan's issue at least we know is that they were completely un-prepared for Fel, and Sargeras already a master of it and of order, they were ill suited to fight, but I think it would be a mistake to think Fel is greater than the arcane.. i'ts like saying destruction is greater than creation, how can it be, when the latter would not exist without the former, so ofc arcane can be used such. That's my opinion.

We know Fel is particularly potent -- why? because it SUCKS the life out of you and use that to empower it's spells - so it is simultaenously weakening you and strengthening the wielder. It costs him too, but it's a dark exchange. It makes it very potent as it's using life destructively and in a horrible way - hence why all the major magical societies and races ban it - the DHs only use it to fight the wielders of it with their own power - that motive actually has pure hearted centre to it - despite the awful ocnsequence - and the incredible risk you take for going down that path as you could become the very thing you are trying to destroy. Most won't dare, but Mr Illidan was quite resolute in his determination to end the evil and we see that despite his incarceration and injustice done to him as he never betrayed his people, he does not veer from that objective, nor focuses on revenge against them - teaches his recruits that they too will be shunned for doing this, and the process might consume them, in fact likely will, but such is the urgency, the great need for this that they must. The arcane experience is pretty much the opposite of that. Using it enhances and improves life, extends lifespan, health, increases wisdom, strength it benefits you in everyway and it feels good, - it won't stop you from being arrogant though or full of yourself if you don't take steps to remain humble , and it is in this way wielding such an amazingly good power, you can be corrupted.

Even with it you cannot be lured to over do it, over reach and i think for the elves, bot the night elves and the high elves, the priesthood played/plays a large role in that. having the faith of an even higher or great power like the Goddess or the Light helps keep you humbled no matter how powerful you get, and also doesn't lead you to panic defense decisions or reckless decisioins in the face of great powerful darkness like the legion, void lords or whatever is out there , cos again you are buffeted by the knowledge and reality that as great as that evil is, something greater, like the Goddess is - so you don't fear panic into excessively using your power and skill to defend yourself therefore throwing aside balance and restrain because you feel you have to match the great power to save yourself. This is what the priesthood does. It's not the only source of humility ofc, but it's a great source. Y ou can be comforted by teachings in the absence of the priesthood and help keep you centred and sane, failure coudl be costly as you would be prone to make reckless choices beyond your ability and measure to cope.

WE can see how Azshara might have lost her way, got way too overconfident, not helped by banishing her priesthood either.

[Cheapnecrolyte]

Why are some arcane mage mobs referred to as "nethermancers"?

Because they are magical practitioners who study and manipulate wield nether energy.

Why are demons drawn to arcane magic?

Because arcane energies are the lifeblood of a titan and demons feed upon life because they are undead.

[Traveler Voltin]

Demons are not undead

[Cheapnecrolyte]

Demons are not undead

Demons aren't undead only to a crackhead who doesn't seem to understand that demons can't be living in any sense of the term if they come from an astral coalition of unstable light and void energies separate from the physical universe or contain highly destructive fel magic that lashes out at all life.

[Wildmoon]

Arcane and Fel are the forces that govern the cosmic system of the universe. They are just opposite of each other. Nature and Death magic govern life and death.

[Cheapnecrolyte]

Arcane and Fel are the forces that govern the cosmic system of the universe. They are just opposite of each other. Nature and Death magic govern life and death.

Fel magic is necromantic in every sense of the term.

[Wildmoon]

Fel magic is necromantic in every sense of the term.

The chronicle lists them as separate.

[Tenjen]

Demons aren't undead only to a crackhead who doesn't seem to understand that demons can't be living in any sense of the term if they come from an astral coalition of unstable light and void energies separate from the physical universe or contain highly destructive fel magic that lashes out at all life.

which doesnt make them undead in any sense of the word. They're something else. Hell most of them are just regular organic beings corrupted by the legion, some are ex-titan races whose purpose was currupted while others were straight out evil and joined the legion for their own benefit.

[Cheapnecrolyte]

The chronicle lists them as separate.

Blizzard's employees like pretending that fel magic isn't necromantic, but no matter what they claim, they will never convince me that warlocks aren't necromancers.

The Chronicle establishes that the highly destructive fel magic is fueled by drawing life from living beings. If life needs to be drawn from living beings to fuel fel magic, life must have something integral to (or a part of) fel magic. If life doesn't have something integral to (or a part of) fel magic, life wouldn't need to be drawn because it (life) doesn't have something fel magic needs.

And not only does life have something a part of fel magic, it seems that fel magic itself comes from life: But an insignificant sacrifice is required to fuel fel magic and sacrificial magic was considered the greatest violation of life. The energies of life, most commonly known as nature magic, are stated to promote growth and renewal in all things. However, energies can be so chaotic that they manifest as entropic horrors, pure fel magic given form to lash out at all life: According to how Dave Kosak describes fel: Fel is chaotic energy. Warlocks convert life into fel, draining the victim as a source power.

If life can be converted (or transformed) into another state, the state that life can be transformed into would not be living despite being a form of life, hence necromancy, the study of magic involving the dead. Fel magic is obviously necromantic if it's an entropic form of life magic that causes death/destruction and comes from the Twisting Nether, an astral dimension composed of spiritual energies.

The Chronicle treating fel magic as if it's not death is just Blizzard's piss poor attempt to fool the gullible into believing warlocks are pigeonholed to using a force that is stated to govern the cosmic systems of the physical universe along with arcane magic.

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which doesnt make them undead in any sense of the word.

Yes it does. Demons are from an astral coalition of spiritual energies that is separate from the physical universe. Do even understand the meaning of the terms astral and spiritual? Seems like you don't.