[Legion] Terryn's guide to Affliction Warlock

[Deleted]

update please

[Deleted]

I liked Soul Effigy when it was usable as it shold always have been.

It was fine in a fight when positioning wasn;t an issue, when phasing didn;t make it despawn

For a high-movement fight it was great. For multidotting it was fun.

All of Effigy's issues were it's implementation, not the concept. It was too much of a pain in the arse to use for too many fights and not rewarding enough for the effort.

If they'd made it follow the caster and had it doing say a 50%+ instead of 35% there'd be hugely less hate for it

[Kirroth]

All of Effigy's issues were it's implementation, not the concept. It was too much of a pain in the arse to use for too many fights and not rewarding enough for the effort.

And that's the rub, isn't it. Concepts are well and good but you need to be able to effectively implement them or else they're useless. It's like the difference between theory and practice. In theory there's no difference, in practice there is.

Soul Effigy would be fine if it weren't for the issues with range and phasing and targeting and wasting trinket procs and ...well, you get the idea. The game engine just doesn't have the tools to make it work. So, cool concept that it is, it's really for the best that it gets scrapped.

Hell, if they overhaul Phantom Singularity while they're at it and that talent tier suddenly has more than once choice, I'd be overjoyed.

[Extremities]

Damn, I'm really annoyed they're removing Effigy. It was good having an option to use DoTs as filler instead of MG. And without MG being compulsory other DoTs could have been used on the Effigy maybe.

They took the easy way out, I enjoyed Effigy where it was usable.

We have conduit for people that don't like to mess with multiple targets in single target, and it's as nice as it gets for that (extra shards, no effort).

Wait, what do you mean they're removing Effigy? Where do you see that?

[JJShadoe]

All of Effigy's issues were it's implementation, not the concept.

I disagree. I have no interest in attacking a little glowy ball that sits there. I think that is a terrible concept.

[Jellospally]

Wait, what do you mean they're removing Effigy? Where do you see that?

Read the latest blue post in that aff thread? They clearing say its being removed with a new talent coming soon.

Walking into a 1-target fight with Soul Effigy just doesn't feel nearly the same. Mechanically, the gameplay of the two situations is very similar, but in the end Soul Effigy doesn't play out well. Could be any of a number of actors - the reduced damage transfer, feeling like the effigy is just there for increased soul shard generation, the usability issues, or the unnaturalness of it as a concept.

Anyways, it’s gone. Replacement talent to come.

That is what he said.

[Lucrece]

More importantly, effigy created further ramp up on an already high ramp up spec.

Ramp up sucks when there are so many classes with immense burst.

[Apero]

I have a question regarding the correct whispers usage. Is it more beneficial just to drain like all the 12s of the procc , granted you dont cap on shards or is it more beneficial to continue normal drain cycles? UA does gain nothing from haste (shardcost for dmg wise) thats why i always wondered.

[Deleted]

More importantly, effigy created further ramp up on an already high ramp up spec.

Ramp up sucks when there are so many classes with immense burst.

And th enerf to MG with the damage baked into dots increases our ramp again. We won;t even be able to do our relatively feeble burst that we've got now, which is to pop reapand dump a couple of UA's with MG and hope for crits.

Just try doing a M+ with a well-geared demon hunter or warrior to see burst. The short boss fights play right into their hands, they just blow every cooldown and do 3m or more instantly.

With the MG nerf we'll be back to the "good old days"

[Extremities]

Read the latest blue post in that aff thread? They clearing say its being removed with a new talent coming soon.

Walking into a 1-target fight with Soul Effigy just doesn't feel nearly the same. Mechanically, the gameplay of the two situations is very similar, but in the end Soul Effigy doesn't play out well. Could be any of a number of actors - the reduced damage transfer, feeling like the effigy is just there for increased soul shard generation, the usability issues, or the unnaturalness of it as a concept.

Anyways, it’s gone. Replacement talent to come.

That is what he said.

Yeah sorry I read it just after my post. That's interesting. Wondering what they're gonna add in its place.

[severan]

And th enerf to MG with the damage baked into dots increases our ramp again. We won;t even be able to do our relatively feeble burst that we've got now, which is to pop reapand dump a couple of UA's with MG and hope for crits.

Just try doing a M+ with a well-geared demon hunter or warrior to see burst. The short boss fights play right into their hands, they just blow every cooldown and do 3m or more instantly.

With the MG nerf we'll be back to the "good old days"

You should be stronger on M+ trash than you are now.

[drinoff]

hm.. you say 1 % i say less than a half percent... seriously you have to be a Masochist to like a thing like this or schizophrenic to not understand how badly designed it is.....
2 cents

[Lucrece]

You should be stronger on M+ trash than you are now.

Which is still lower than a fury warrior or DH since they're kings of aoe burst too.

[ThePhantombox]

Which is still lower than a fury warrior or DH since they're kings of aoe burst too.

>An overpowered spec is overpowered.

Um, yes?

[Deleted]

Which is still lower than a fury warrior or DH since they're kings of aoe burst too.

I wasn;t even talking about trash. With damage baked into dots affliction will be great only on lower level M+...and then only on trash. The bosses will die so fast that they willbe two-thirds dead to demon hunters and warriors blowing their cooldowns and doing at least 2-3m dps (and more in TOS gear) by the time our Agony has ramped up to full power.

On the higher level keystones and particularly with certain afflixes stuns, interrupts and focussed single target burst are more highly valued. Affliction won;t even truly shine on the bosses until you reach very high keys because witht he change to MG we willsimply not have that opening burst window where we can dump a couple of UA's with Reap and MG and hope we will get some of those big crits.

The devs specifically stated that ramp and dot specs have big issues in dungeons because everything just dies before you can get your resources and everything up and running.

[Deleted]

I wasn;t even talking about trash. With damage baked into dots affliction will be great only on lower level M+...and then only on trash. The bosses will die so fast that they willbe two-thirds dead to demon hunters and warriors blowing their cooldowns and doing at least 2-3m dps (and more in TOS gear) by the time our Agony has ramped up to full power.

On the higher level keystones and particularly with certain afflixes stuns, interrupts and focussed single target burst are more highly valued. Affliction won;t even truly shine on the bosses until you reach very high keys because witht he change to MG we willsimply not have that opening burst window where we can dump a couple of UA's with Reap and MG and hope we will get some of those big crits.

The devs specifically stated that ramp and dot specs have big issues in dungeons because everything just dies before you can get your resources and everything up and running.

The change on trash will be absolutely minimal: Most of the affli trash damage comes from Seeds & Soul Flame anyway, and they remain unchanged (even the insane Seeds cast time).

On Bosses, ramp will be a problem again after they finally fixed it with MG in 7.1.5.

Yes, I agree, it was really too strong and needed a slight nerf, but this change now basically makes us worse in m+ than shadows...

EDIT: On the plus side, we probably will be able to play destro again

[Deleted]

I hate effigy with a passion

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[severan]

The change on trash will be absolutely minimal: Most of the affli trash damage comes from Seeds & Soul Flame anyway, and they remain unchanged (even the insane Seeds cast time).

On Bosses, ramp will be a problem again after they finally fixed it with MG in 7.1.5.

Yes, I agree, it was really too strong and needed a slight nerf, but this change now basically makes us worse in m+ than shadows...

EDIT: On the plus side, we probably will be able to play destro again

From blue "All Affliction damage done increased by 15%" which should include seeds and soul flame. Based on those sims posted the opening dps is the same between 7.2 and 7.2.5 so I think we'll be just fine on m+ bosses. Who knows what the new talent will bring.

[Lucrece]

The change on trash will be absolutely minimal: Most of the affli trash damage comes from Seeds & Soul Flame anyway, and they remain unchanged (even the insane Seeds cast time).

On Bosses, ramp will be a problem again after they finally fixed it with MG in 7.1.5.

Yes, I agree, it was really too strong and needed a slight nerf, but this change now basically makes us worse in m+ than shadows...

EDIT: On the plus side, we probably will be able to play destro again

Affliction will never be worse in m+ than shadow. It still has more boss damage and better 4+ target aoe.

[Deleted]

The change on trash will be absolutely minimal: Most of the affli trash damage comes from Seeds & Soul Flame anyway, and they remain unchanged (even the insane Seeds cast time).

Like I said, spamming aoe is only useful on normal dungeons and lower keystones. In higher ones it is all about focussed single target damage - burst invariably wins.
Likewise, on normal dungeons and lower keystones the bosses will die so fast to burst classes that affliction locks will feellike a third wheel. But as you say, trash packs now die to quickly to everyone else's instant AOE spam that by the time you've watch Seed of Corruption cast bar crawl across the screen it feels pointless too.


That's bad enough now, by the time you've got your dots out the things are halfway dead. In fact it's better to just dump a couple of UA's and pop reap + MG and hope for some crits, corruption and agony feel pointless

And yet with this change, affliction will be back where it was - I remember the devs themselves repeatedly commenting that affliction was becoming very problematic in dungeons although it was Ok in raids because raid boss fights are much longer.

On Bosses, ramp will be a problem again after they finally fixed it with MG in 7.1.5.

Yes, I agree, it was really too strong and needed a slight nerf, but this change now basically makes us worse in m+ than shadows...

EDIT: On the plus side, we probably will be able to play destro again

I won;t play destruction.I just won't. I hate it.

I can see where they are comign from with these changes but it recreates the problems that Malefic Grasp was designed to alleviate.

In fact the devs recognise this in their comments about Haunt. IMHO Haunt should have it;s initial damage increased. A lot.

- - - Updated - - -

From blue "All Affliction damage done increased by 15%" which should include seeds and soul flame. Based on those sims posted the opening dps is the same between 7.2 and 7.2.5 so I think we'll be just fine on m+ bosses. Who knows what the new talent will bring.

I seriously doubt that they are actually going to buff Seed and soul Flame. It's already really strong - the only limiters on them are Seed's absurdly long cast times.