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  1. #1321
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janka View Post
    Me again, guys.
    Today we had a discussion. The guys from a mythic raid guild say that I should swap my 895 Whispers in the Dark with socket for a 915 Tarnished Sentinel Medallion. My second trinket is an 880 Unstable Arcanocrystal.
    But when I simulate myself with Simulationcraft I get 1.024.459 dps with Whispers and Arcanocrystal and 1.016.549 dps with Medallion and Arcanocrystal. It would be a loss of 7,9 k dps if I swap them.

    Any ideas?
    As soon as the fight becomes more than a single target, whispers and arcano gain much more value (and surpass the medallion even at that item level).

    I would stick with the Whispers + Arcano given the majority of TOS (only Goroth and Maiden are "ST"). Go ahead and test out the medallion in lieu of one of the them on either and/or both fights to get some sample data - in general they are both very close whereas a 930+ tarnished would certainly overtake on pure ST).

    I personally use a 910 whispers and an 880 socketed arcano with ZERO plans of swapping either until I get a 930 medallion but I'll gladly pass it to boomkins/mages first. Even then, it would only be for 2 bosses...

  2. #1322
    Quote Originally Posted by pappaslop View Post
    As soon as the fight becomes more than a single target, whispers and arcano gain much more value (and surpass the medallion even at that item level).
    Which brings us to Know Your Raid Fights. Swapping trinkets and/or talents depending on fight type means you have to know what types of fight they are.

    Goroth, Sisters, Maiden, and Kil'jaden are (almost) pure single target fights. They're good choices to swap in TSM for. Inquisition is a council fight, while Harjatan, Sassz'ine, and Host all have frequent heavy add presence. TSM loses a lot of value for those, and if you're using Simcraft to pick trinkets you want to re-run sims with a Fight Style besides Patchwerk.

    Fallen Avatar is a bit of an odd duck. It's mostly single target, but being able to cleave during the first phase is still useful. I'm honestly not sure which profile does better there.

  3. #1323
    Is there a guide for affliction that includes 7.2.5 talent rework? THis one appears to still use effigy.

  4. #1324

  5. #1325
    What exactly does reap souls double? both the damage and the % chance of traits?

  6. #1326
    it doubles the effect of all traits, so a 3% increase becomes a 6% increase, etc. Also, you get a 10% damage boost.

  7. #1327
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    What exactly does reap souls double? both the damage and the % chance of traits?
    It doubles the effect of most artifact traits. For example: you have four points in Hideous Corruption, which increases the damage of Corruption by 16%. Under Reap, this becomes 32%.

    Note that there have previously been lonstanding bugs which meant a few traits were not (I think Sweet Souls was one). Also, the Concordance of the Legionfall trait is specifically excepted.

  8. #1328
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebiroth99 View Post
    It doubles the effect of most artifact traits. For example: you have four points in Hideous Corruption, which increases the damage of Corruption by 16%. Under Reap, this becomes 32%.

    Note that there have previously been lonstanding bugs which meant a few traits were not (I think Sweet Souls was one). Also, the Concordance of the Legionfall trait is specifically excepted.
    I see. Does it also double the chance then? like harvester of souls and compounding horror, do they go from 10% and 15% to 20% and 30% respectively in addition to doubling their proc damage?

  9. #1329
    I'm a bit confused by talent choices. I've read through various guides in various places, like IV and LOSS, and I can't see a clear consensus on a few things.

    One is the choice between Soul Conduit and Siphon Life. I've seen either recommended for multiple resp. single target, and now I don't know if it's typos, bad advice from someone, or just too close too call. My guess would be that SC is better for multiple targets because you tend to spend more shards there (more Agony ticks)? I don't trust SimCraft results at my low gear level, as it's so unoptimized there could be any number of distortion effects at play.

    Another question concerns a legendary, Lethtendris' Power Cord when using Contagion - should I time UA re-applications so that they don't overlap, to give it a chance to proc? Or is it not worth the risk of increased downtime on Contagion?

  10. #1330
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    I see. Does it also double the chance then? like harvester of souls and compounding horror, do they go from 10% and 15% to 20% and 30% respectively in addition to doubling their proc damage?
    iirc it does. I'm pretty sure it doubles evetything not explicitly excluded. I'm sure it doubles the Fatal Echoes trait from 6% to 12%

    Compounding Horror can mostly be ignored

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    I'm a bit confused by talent choices. I've read through various guides in various places, like IV and LOSS, and I can't see a clear consensus on a few things.

    One is the choice between Soul Conduit and Siphon Life. I've seen either recommended for multiple resp. single target, and now I don't know if it's typos, bad advice from someone, or just too close too call. My guess would be that SC is better for multiple targets because you tend to spend more shards there (more Agony ticks)? I don't trust SimCraft results at my low gear level, as it's so unoptimized there could be any number of distortion effects at play.

    Another question concerns a legendary, Lethtendris' Power Cord when using Contagion - should I time UA re-applications so that they don't overlap, to give it a chance to proc? Or is it not worth the risk of increased downtime on Contagion?
    Siphon Life is reliable damage. Soul Conduit can be higher - or lower. Depends on the procs you get. Conduit tends to dominate the highest parses on WOL for this reason, peopel got lucky.

    also depends on what legendaries you've got or decide to use.

  11. #1331
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    I see. Does it also double the chance then? like harvester of souls and compounding horror, do they go from 10% and 15% to 20% and 30% respectively in addition to doubling their proc damage?
    For what its worth harvester of Souls doesn't get double proc rate under reap, pretty sure its meant to but it hasn't all expansion.

  12. #1332
    Just got a 930 Oakhearts, is it really as bad as LOSS suggests? I remember it being the bees knees for an awful lot of specs on launch and now it seems to be valued more poorly than stat sticks ever were and is allegedly worse than a far lower ilvl plaguehive.

  13. #1333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    Just got a 930 Oakhearts, is it really as bad as LOSS suggests? I remember it being the bees knees for an awful lot of specs on launch and now it seems to be valued more poorly than stat sticks ever were and is allegedly worse than a far lower ilvl plaguehive.
    I too remember at launch how sought after Oakheart's and Naraxas' were... Sadly, there are just far better trinkets at this point in the expansion. At launch, it was pretty much those trinkets or if you got a lucky stat stick proc (and then Plaguehive off Nyth).

    I got a Spiked Tongue not too long ago, maybe a couple weeks ago in a weekly cache and DE'ed it ><

  14. #1334
    Quote Originally Posted by pappaslop View Post
    I too remember at launch how sought after Oakheart's and Naraxas' were... Sadly, there are just far better trinkets at this point in the expansion. At launch, it was pretty much those trinkets or if you got a lucky stat stick proc (and then Plaguehive off Nyth).

    I got a Spiked Tongue not too long ago, maybe a couple weeks ago in a weekly cache and DE'ed it ><
    I'm aware there are better trinkets at this point and can see how stat sticks would start to out scale a proc thinket like this, what baffles me is why it's ranked lower than other proc trinkets that were notably weaker on launch, that makes me question how accurate the sims are, just wondered if anyone had any hands on experience to support or devalue them.

  15. #1335
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    I'm aware there are better trinkets at this point and can see how stat sticks would start to out scale a proc thinket like this, what baffles me is why it's ranked lower than other proc trinkets that were notably weaker on launch, that makes me question how accurate the sims are, just wondered if anyone had any hands on experience to support or devalue them.
    I wasn't trying to insinuate your awareness level - my apologies if I did.

    I haven't personally compared launch trinkets but based on the sims via LOSS it would seem it's primarily because of scalability. I see Oakheart's being lower than Naraxas', Infernal Writ, Horn of Valor and Fulmination Charge? I cannot recall any launch affliction sims tbh because it wasn't as viable as it is today and I was focused on destruction/demonology far more at launch...

    I will say that from my recollection, the majority of people at launch played destruction/demo and we all know the value of haste for demo. Therefore, comparing the state of a trinket at launch into affliction's current iteration is far different than comparing the same trinket (perceptively) to destruction's launch state. As in, I'd imagine its just a matter of perception - insert fruit comparison analogy.
    Last edited by pappaslop; 2017-08-02 at 07:09 PM.

  16. #1336
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    Just got a 930 Oakhearts, is it really as bad as LOSS suggests? I remember it being the bees knees for an awful lot of specs on launch and now it seems to be valued more poorly than stat sticks ever were and is allegedly worse than a far lower ilvl plaguehive.
    At launch, there weren’t a lot of options for good trinkets for affliction. The trinkets in Emerald Nightmare were mostly terrible.

    The only good one for affliction was Plaguehive from first boss (one of our BIS at the time). After that (assuming you weren’t lucky enough to get an Arcano trinket), we went after Naraxas’s Spiked Tongue or a good stat stick. Oakheart was always below those, however Oakheart was just super easy to get. Plus we could proc it often. That’s why it became a default trinket by a lot of affliction locks.

    Afflics always scale well with gear, but the more points we put into our artifact, our scaling went through the roof with mastery/haste. After getting Perdition trait, crit also began to scale really well.

    Remember too, at launch, we didn’t even have Malefic Grasp. MG bumped up our scaling even MORE with those stats (particularly haste).

    Haste/Mastery/Crit each play so well with our artifact and talents. Versa not nearly as much…

    So now you look at your Oakheart, which is essentially a Versa Stat stick. Despite being a high ilvl, it doesn’t offer much more than that. At 930 ilvl, it procs a what? 400k-ish dot? That dmg is easily surpassed by what you’d gain from another stat in place of the Versa + whatever other proc on top of that.

  17. #1337
    Anybody else having issues with the Aff WA from here https://wago.io/EkZU94ADZ ?

    I keep getting spammed this message in chat and can't figure out how to fix it. I'm using Part 2 only in the that link.

    [string "function(p,r1,g1,b1,a1,r2,g2,b2,a2)..."]:1: '<name>' expected near '('

  18. #1338
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    I'm a bit confused by talent choices. I've read through various guides in various places, like IV and LOSS, and I can't see a clear consensus on a few things.

    One is the choice between Soul Conduit and Siphon Life. I've seen either recommended for multiple resp. single target, and now I don't know if it's typos, bad advice from someone, or just too close too call. My guess would be that SC is better for multiple targets because you tend to spend more shards there (more Agony ticks)? I don't trust SimCraft results at my low gear level, as it's so unoptimized there could be any number of distortion effects at play.

    Another question concerns a legendary, Lethtendris' Power Cord when using Contagion - should I time UA re-applications so that they don't overlap, to give it a chance to proc? Or is it not worth the risk of increased downtime on Contagion?
    Does anyone have an answer for this beyond the rng factor? I have been really curious as to why there is so much discrepancy from different guides as well.

  19. #1339
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    I'm a bit confused by talent choices. I've read through various guides in various places, like IV and LOSS, and I can't see a clear consensus on a few things.

    One is the choice between Soul Conduit and Siphon Life. I've seen either recommended for multiple resp. single target, and now I don't know if it's typos, bad advice from someone, or just too close too call. My guess would be that SC is better for multiple targets because you tend to spend more shards there (more Agony ticks)? I don't trust SimCraft results at my low gear level, as it's so unoptimized there could be any number of distortion effects at play.

    Another question concerns a legendary, Lethtendris' Power Cord when using Contagion - should I time UA re-applications so that they don't overlap, to give it a chance to proc? Or is it not worth the risk of increased downtime on Contagion?
    Quote Originally Posted by Donimic View Post
    Does anyone have an answer for this beyond the rng factor? I have been really curious as to why there is so much discrepancy from different guides as well.
    Firstly for simming it doesn't matter what level you are. For me the talents are really close on ST but I have the belt so if RNG is in my favour I should gain more from SC. SL and MG are not a very good mix gameplay wise in my opinion (though naturally you have a bit more mobility) but choose what you prefer. It could also be argued that SL is a better talent when you have less gear due to less shard regen and/or no belt.

    How you use belt depends more on your first talent. If you're MG you continue with your clear defined drain cycles and if the belt procs that's a bonus. If you are using WiA then you will unlikely ever get full Contagion uptime anyhow however you want that as high as possible so let UA drop. Naturally you do want to buff the times you do more damage and dump more UAs (when you have extras) when you have procs up.

    A lot of people usually wear Netherlord with 6 piece tier on the more ST fights which also has no effect on SL.

    Best thing is to check log statistics to see worth of talents and how many people use them. Norm/HC fights like Harj, Mistress, Host (downstairs) have adds that will not fully benefit from SL however when you throw UAs on them you have the SC factor.

    Also more targets=more shards (from both agony and drain/UA sniping)=more UAs making SC more valuable. On some fights as well I can really struggle at times with having enough seconds/globals to spend UAs, UA on death and drain snipe then another DoT to keep up would only add to the issues.

    Ultimately experiment but personally only fight I have found any real value for SL at the moment is DI heroic (not taking into account mythic fights).
    Last edited by Spikeyshadow; 2017-08-31 at 10:50 AM.

  20. #1340
    I'm pretty sure two target sustained cleave (i.e. inquisition) is the only real situation where SL makes sense; vs one target or short lived adds you'd rather have conduit, and vs more than two targets you don't really have time to maintain it.

    even on mythic inquisition most people are using death's embrace rather than SL, though if you have the ring maybe it'd be worth running

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