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  1. #1341
    Quote Originally Posted by Donimic View Post
    Does anyone have an answer for this beyond the rng factor? I have been really curious as to why there is so much discrepancy from different guides as well.
    I'm going to give a different answer than the previous two. Not so much as to disagree; but coming from a bit of a different angle.

    And it's also just a partial answer here. I think the problem is that a straight up guide for Affliction is pretty messy. There's no really simple answer to the questions often being asked because some suggestions of talents/gear depends on the fight and gear you have. SC is great to take for example if you have the class ring. But without the ring and on a fight like Goroth or DI I personally wouldn't take SC unless you happen to love RNG style play. And I just hate the possible swings in dps. Now when I finally get my hands on the class ring...that's a different story. I'll likely take SC on most (maybe even every) fight. As of now, and this might be different for different gear, SC sims (and in game) is decently lower dps unless RNG is quite good. I favour consistency.

    Then again, DE is also a strong possibility if your raid tends to have a few deaths and the last phase of the fights are longer. Really, it's one of the things right now that is quite frankly amazing about Affliction: we are SO versatile and have so many great builds for any number of raid comps/skill/targets/mechanics/content.

    I wouldn't worry toooo much about figuring out a cookie cutter build/talent (or "which legendary is best" type questions). There isn't one for TOS. Aff locks respec from fight to fight.

    Some of the old questions like "what's best" are simply outdated, left over from previous patches that simply need to go away. What's best is highly contextual now. I think we've been in this sorta shift for so long now people are getting tired of answering these outdated questions tbh. So when someone asks SC or SL, people just skip it because the answer is too contextual (my opinion: unless you have the class ring, SL is usually the safer bet, but you really can't go wrong in that tier anyway; no talent will break you); or if one prefers, the question needs to go away/be asked differently. I know I know, guides seem to be worded in different ways so the question seems rather legit. Guides don't know what your gear looks like: they are necessarily rough. You can sim yourself or test it out in a real raid environment (LFR even if you must).

    I guess another reason some people won't post replies to these sorts of questions is because there is always someone who comes along and just wants to split hairs or quibble about something rather irrelevant. And for those of us who don't live on these forums, it's time consuming to explain why it is they are wrong or misleading or that they've misunderstood aspects of the post/guides/suggestions and so on.

    By all means check to see what others are using in logs, as long as you understand that just because the top people used SC or DE or whatever talent doesn't mean you should. You have to consider their gear, RNG, fight, comp, who was alive and so on (I'm quite convinced that most people have no clue how to analyze logs even for something like 'what gear should i use on fight x'). I know that's not the kind of answer people are looking for; they just want to be told what to do. But they answer is too contextual for simply: use SC.

    Having wrote all that, LOSS is pretty darn good (and the IV guide for locks this xpac hasn't been updated regularly enough to be a reliable source). But read the AFF guide on LOSS very carefully, every sentence. It's more nuanced than people typically seem to think.

    TLDR: SC or SL is a mistaken question on it's own. We'd need more information about gear/context/legendaries/content.... And even then the answer might be different as soon as you pick up your next legendary or your raid comp/skill changes. Be cautious of answers as well that seem pretty simple: I mean people often just assume you're doing mythic. And the truth is most people aren't doing mythic and still want to optimize, which is completely fair; but difficulty level is relevant to answering these sorts of questions.Those who simply suggest one or the other aren't doing you any favours. The answer is that it's highly contextual.
    Last edited by Liarparadox; 2017-08-31 at 09:24 PM.

  2. #1342
    Quote Originally Posted by Liarparadox View Post
    Then again, DE is also a strong possibility if your raid tends to have a few deaths and the last phase of the fights are longer. Really, it's one of the things right now that is quite frankly amazing about Affliction: we are SO versatile and have so many great builds for any number of raid comps/skill/targets/mechanics/content.
    Yeah we do have more options at the moment which is a nice place to be in. I have to say I forgot to touch much on DE which thankfully you did. I have the class ring and wear it on nearly every farm fight so the question, assuming no Netherlord, is actually should we use DE, SL or SC?

    Again like I said before people should experiment and see what fits them.

  3. #1343
    Quote Originally Posted by Spikeyshadow View Post

    Again like I said before people should experiment and see what fits them.
    Yeah absolutely. That's very much what people need to do.

  4. #1344
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheze View Post
    even on mythic inquisition most people are using death's embrace rather than SL, though if you have the ring maybe it'd be worth running
    It's still not worth it. You're busy dotting both the bosses and the adds leaving little to no time for SL. Don your Corruption ring, spec into DE and you're all set...and your raid will thank you for making sure adds are slowed to boot. Think the only fight you might consider SL is M Avatar but even that's iffy.
    Last edited by Moggie; 2017-09-02 at 04:37 AM.

  5. #1345
    Quote Originally Posted by Moggie View Post
    It's still not worth it. You're busy dotting both the bosses and the adds leaving little to no time for SL. Don your Corruption ring, spec into DE and you're all set...and your raid will thank you for making sure adds are slowed to boot. Think the only fight you might consider SL is M Avatar but even that's iffy.
    SL on Avatar seems very much padding for most of the fight, while DE would help in one of the most critical phases of the fight (downstairs). I suppose it's TECHNICALLY a damage increase on Maiden during shield? Is that worth it, though?

    I have to agree that SL is just not very useful in the fights we have right now. The only fight I ever use it on is heroic DI, so if heroic is your jam by all means. Though to be fair, SL and SC are probably decently close in performance on most straight ST fights.

  6. #1346
    Anyone have any idea how strong a 910 obelisk of the void is? Just got one while trying to go for an arcanocrystal - looks like it'd still math out as worse on average than a 900 mastery stat stick unless you had burst windows it lining up with it, wondered if anyone had any experience making it work with periodic UA dumps within the proc window, otherwise I'll just stick with my stick.

  7. #1347
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    Anyone have any idea how strong a 910 obelisk of the void is? Just got one while trying to go for an arcanocrystal - looks like it'd still math out as worse on average than a 900 mastery stat stick unless you had burst windows it lining up with it, wondered if anyone had any experience making it work with periodic UA dumps within the proc window, otherwise I'll just stick with my stick.
    As always, the answer is to sim it. It's the best approximation to relative performance values we have.

  8. #1348
    Guys, what is the ideal mastery value for affliction warlock?
    I have 151% flat and both Simulationcraft and Raidbots are telling me to put crit and versatility, but if I swap some mastery items for some with versatility and crit my dps decreases in raids.
    My stats atm:
    151% mastery
    20% haste
    23% crit
    4% versatility
    Last edited by Biruta; 2017-09-17 at 11:52 PM.
    Ghostcrawler is gone, time to celebrate!

  9. #1349
    Quote Originally Posted by Biruta View Post
    Guys, what is the ideal mastery value for affliction warlock?
    I have 151% flat and both Simulationcraft and Raidbots are telling me to put crit and versatility, but if I swap some mastery items for some with versatility and crit my dps decreases in raids.
    My stats atm:
    151% mastery
    20% haste
    23% crit
    4% versatility
    There is no "ideal value". Stats are on a curve, and the value of one stat is contingent on how you have of the others, and vice versa. While there may be preferences in certain stat ranges, never take that as gospel. Individual setups can change things drastically, as does the fight in question. In particular, mastery is the top stat pretty much only on multi-target encounters; on pure single-target fights, haste and crit can often overtake it quite easily.

    The general consensus is to try and gear for mastery + haste, as those tend to give the best increase overall, on average. However, that doesn't mean that it's ALWAYS optimal. Your own particular setup may very well favor something else, based on what level your gear is at, what trinkets you are using, and so on. Simcraft is a very useful tool for just that: not giving you a definitive guideline for what stat to stack, but for comparing concrete examples of gear you have or are considering to get. Do a comparison sim with the gear pieces available to you, and see what comes out best. In the end, that's probably a lot more useful than "mastery is worth X, haste is worth Y" because you need to work with what you actually HAVE. And there are no magical 955 pure Mastery pieces in every slot, or anything like that.

    For most classes, there are certain diminishing returns at work when it comes to stats. Stacking one single stack is rarely optimal, due to the synergistic effects at work; the more you have of one stat, the more the value of other stats tends to increase, and so on. Where and when and how that happens, of course, can be tricky to determine. Simcraft is the best approximation.

  10. #1350

    Stat distribution

    Quote Originally Posted by Biruta View Post
    Guys, what is the ideal mastery value for affliction warlock?
    I have 151% flat and both Simulationcraft and Raidbots are telling me to put crit and versatility, but if I swap some mastery items for some with versatility and crit my dps decreases in raids.
    My stats atm:
    151% mastery
    20% haste
    23% crit
    4% versatility
    I did a quick Raidbots for you and this is the report it generated

    https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/repo...ZmLZvwY5ARj74M

    Haste
    28.09
    Crit
    24.13
    Mastery
    21.15
    Vers
    20.79
    Int
    18.34

    You need haste, i would swap mastery gems to haste gems and enchant haste on rings.

  11. #1351
    Is there a bug on Argus, all the relics available on the map are SoC damage, every single 1. Destruction there are various traits available for the wq?

  12. #1352
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulreaper9 View Post
    Is there a bug on Argus, all the relics available on the map are SoC damage, every single 1. Destruction there are various traits available for the wq?
    Not a bug. The way relics work is that they're simply assigned a number, which is the number of the trait they're buffing on each class that can use it. That number is a different trait on each class, of course, but that unfortunately means that for some classes it's garbage, and for others it's amazing.

  13. #1353
    Guys i don't see the Master Harvester mentioned in the guide, but i've been using it and i feel like it's much better than the legendary belt. Both are proc based, but the chest procs much often for me + it gives a great buff right as you are about to drain. Does anyone else agree that it's a very good leggo ? As someone who doesn't have the head, wrist and the new ring, i am using the chest + sacrolash and i love it. I also have the cloak, but i got a sick 950 cloak with bis stats so i decided to switch them.

    One more question - if i have Sacrolash, should i switch from Contagion to Absolute Corruption for all intents and purposes ? Or contagion still gives higher dps ?

  14. #1354
    Quote Originally Posted by gothicmaster View Post
    Guys i don't see the Master Harvester mentioned in the guide, but i've been using it and i feel like it's much better than the legendary belt. Both are proc based, but the chest procs much often for me + it gives a great buff right as you are about to drain. Does anyone else agree that it's a very good leggo ? As someone who doesn't have the head, wrist and the new ring, i am using the chest + sacrolash and i love it. I also have the cloak, but i got a sick 950 cloak with bis stats so i decided to switch them.

    One more question - if i have Sacrolash, should i switch from Contagion to Absolute Corruption for all intents and purposes ? Or contagion still gives higher dps ?
    Master Harvester is great on certain fights, as is the Belt (usually on different fights). Affliction has a number of legendaries that are worth using, and ideally you switch gear and spec around very frequently in ToS. Belt is mainly used on single-target fights, not only because of its effect but also because it allows you to use 2p t19, further increasing UA damage. Check Warcraftlogs to get a rough idea of what legendary combo is good on which fight.

    As for your second question, whether or not you're using the ring shouldn't influence your talent choice - fight mechanics should. The ring doesn't exactly change your playstyle, it just makes something you do anyway do more damage (and slow).

    All that is for raiding, of course. In M+ or open world, things can look very different. But because they're so vastly different, it's hard to give useful advice without more parameters to go by.

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