Enough Is Enough (Retr)

[Cempa]

I'm sorry but it needs to be said: Retr is a joke .. I play Ele and I'm calling Retr rubbish!

Either I'm going up against the worst Retr players in the history of WoW or this spec can't do damage at all ... It's not because the spec can't do damage per say rather others simply take a step or two in any direction and negate the ENTIRE FREAKIN' SPEC!

Edit: For the sake of this being a productive spec I'll add suggestions:

1) Horse in combat talent needs to be CC immune plain and simple ..
2) Horse in combat talent needs to be base line plain and simple ..
3) Retr needs a snare built in like Enh and Feral plain and simple ..

[unstableone]

Ret is that bad. PVP templates were over-nerfed and then ret was nerfed in pve when they were already low dps.

Extremely easy to counter. Only way they are a threat is if someone else is slowing and stunning a target for them.

Official feedback thread for the beta is up to 123 pages with no interaction from devs. Seems like they gave up and have moved on

[Deleted]

Don't worry. Knowing how people get mad over Ret being actually good over the years it's working as intended.

[Charge me Doctor]

If you want this to happen ret damage will be tuned down in half at least. Rets damage and survivability is great in its current state, the only downside is mobility, which is fine. You have short windows of opportunity to do fuckton of damage and short windows of opportunity to get to the target. Yes, it's infuriating to be kited by unholy DK and worn out to death, but that's how things simply are and it's more fun this way. I'll take this over the old "i can sit on a target 24/7 but deal pisspoor damage that can be outhealed by an enhance shaman"

[Snegovik]

If you want this to happen ret damage will be tuned down in half at least. Rets damage and survivability is great in its current state, the only downside is mobility, which is fine. You have short windows of opportunity to do fuckton of damage and short windows of opportunity to get to the target. Yes, it's infuriating to be kited by unholy DK and worn out to death, but that's how things simply are and it's more fun this way. I'll take this over the old "i can sit on a target 24/7 but deal pisspoor damage that can be outhealed by an enhance shaman"

With all due respect =))), i must strongly disagree on the survival part, in Rated PvP Ret has no meaningful D-cds, all of our D-CDs can be SS, Dispelled or Mimicked. I rather take the WOD Ret over this shit Ret. Yes WOD Ret would hit weaker but i had 90%+ dmg uptime on ANY dps class or healer, now when i face lets say Arcane or BM hunter who can kite, u get 10% uptime at best. Even u said urself, UH DKs who suppose to have 0 mobility can kite Ret very well, so logically Ret has a negative mobility at this point lol if a 0-Mobility Melee can kite us :P. Ret needs Mobility and Perma slow, or we will be even a bigger joke in Arena, than we were in WOD

[Deleted]

Well, uh do doesn't have the best stun in the game ������

[Charge me Doctor]

With all due respect =))), i must strongly disagree on the survival part, in Rated PvP Ret has no meaningful D-cds, all of our D-CDs can be SS, Dispelled or Mimicked. I rather take the WOD Ret over this shit Ret. Yes WOD Ret would hit weaker but i had 90%+ dmg uptime on ANY dps class or healer, now when i face lets say Arcane or BM hunter who can kite, u get 10% uptime at best. Even u said urself, UH DKs who suppose to have 0 mobility can kite Ret very well, so logically Ret has a negative mobility at this point lol if a 0-Mobility Melee can kite us :P. Ret needs Mobility and Perma slow, or we will be even a bigger joke in Arena, than we were in WOD

Unholy DK has a lot of CC, which negates mobility of almost anyone. Grab, hook, almost permanent 70% slow, weak ranged attacks, a pet and dots. Yes, he will take his opportunity to be out of your reach and deal at least some damage while stacking festering wounds, then get up close when you are at 50% and pop them, that's kinda what he does, it's his advantage, he will 100% lose in close combat with other melee without kiting them.

I repeat, UH doesn't have mobility, UH has CC which allows him to kite you. You simply are slowed by 70% permanently while being killed by an abomination, gargoyle and face eating flesh bacteria. Frankly, Divin'ing or BoF'ing is valid option to ruin UHs day.

---

Ret has shield of vengeance, LoH, divine, BoP (yes they all apply forbearance but 30 seconds "CD" on such strong spells is quite balanced), correct me if i'm wrong but paladins also get an instant heal CD. You can also spec into eye for an eye. Compare that to arms? Commanding shout and retaliation. You can spec into def stance for an amazing defensive CD, but you have to give up a lot of mobility.

Let us move to CC part?
Ret paladin has:
HoJ (5 second stun, 60 seconds cooldown), Hand of Hindrance (10 seconds 70% slow, 30 seconds CD, ranged), and at level 45 you either get extra CC ability or reduce CD of HoJ while spending HP. I also must add that Ret has an option to get a PvP talent that reduces CD on HoH when its dispelled and applies it automatically when you smack someone with your 10 second CD melee attack, good luck getting away from that. But i'm not focusing on legion right now.

Arms warrior has:
Charge(1,5 root, 20 seconds cooldown), hamstring(spammable melee 50% slow that costs rage), an option to get a stun (4 seconds, 10yrds cone AoE, 40 seconds CD or 4 seconds, 20yrds single target 30 seconds CD), AoE fear (8 seconds, 8yrds, 90 seconds CD).

I would call that pretty equal, but there is also mobility:
Ret:
It's really just divine stead or seal of light, first one is a 100% speed boost on long CD, second is spammable 20-60% speed boost without CD (requires you to spend HP tho), and also blessing of freedom, yay.
Arms:
Oh wow that's a fucking lot, charge on 20 seconds CD, and heroic leap (which often simply doesn't work). Well, maybe bladestorm can be counted as mobility tool.

By combining your mobility and CC tools you can have huge uptime on different range of enemies by both specs, but
Problem with arms - is staying on your enemy
Problem with ret - is getting to your enemy
If any of them for some reason has 100% uptime on target - they'll ravage them to pieces, but that's where balance come from, they can't have 100% uptime on target, and they shouldn't. If you want to have great mobility and lots of CC - your class is rogue or druid, not a two-hander bearing bulk of muscles equipped with plate armour.

Yes, your concern about dispels and others peeling you off target are valid, but that's they game for you. Yes, Ret has worst mobility out of 5 two-handers specs (Ret, Arms, Fury, UH, SV), but they are almost top ones for dealing burst damage, and at least second at sitting on top of an opponent (first one being UH DK, because it's literally impossible to get away from him). Combination of 70% slow, BoF, Divine, and spammable sprint is very hard to get away from.

And before you asked, i get it from simply my own experience of playing ret and arms in prepatch, and i'm seriously thinking about making ret my PvP character, so yeah, that's just my opinion, i'm not here to say that you all wrong, i'm here to say that all melee got stripped off their mobility so ranged classes has at least a chance against them

[Cempa]

Every Retr is going to spec into Divine Steed
Once people realize you can CC Divine Steed it will be negated
Yes Retr will adapt by combining Freedom+Steed
Ans yes people will adapt and have a Stun ready for that ..

You see its quite simple, Retr can have huge up time on your healer with HoH+Steed UNLESS you CC steed .. other wise your healer is dead .. Also against a Resto Druid Retr can't do sh*t because HoH is negated with shift and the rDrood can pretty much tank like a boss ..

From below video we learn:

1) Retr is in trouble if ever tunneled
2) Counter Steed and you pretty much negated the Retr

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

Ret has always been a low tier pvp spec, i thought people would be used to this by now.

[Deleted]

Why the fuck are people STILL complaining about anything pre-110? jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez

[Charge me Doctor]

Every Retr is going to spec into Divine Steed
Once people realize you can CC Divine Steed it will be negated
Yes Retr will adapt by combining Freedom+Steed
Ans yes people will adapt and have a Stun ready for that ..

You see its quite simple, Retr can have huge up time on your healer with HoH+Steed UNLESS you CC steed .. other wise your healer is dead .. Also against a Resto Druid Retr can't do sh*t because HoH is negated with shift and the rDrood can pretty much tank like a boss ..

From below video we learn:

1) Retr is in trouble if ever tunneled
2) Counter Steed and you pretty much negated the Retr

Not every ret will take steed. IMO 60% almost-100%-uptime-sprint is way better, unless dispelled 24/7. Even when dispelled 24/7 - you draw enemy dispels to yourself, away from your allies and from more important buffs.
CC is very limited now, if you eat a stun into your 45 cooldown - it's OK, but people will hold their stuns for rogues evasion and warriors retaliation and finishing off important targets, than waste it on a ret riding a horse into a battle (yes, i used the word "waste" here, because if a simple press of a 45 seconds cooldown makes your opponent think "i either use my only stun on him right now, or i get hurt a lot" - it was a freaking good use of 45 seconds cooldown)
I'm not a fan of stacking all of your movement enhancing abilities in one go, it's too easy to counter.

Ret will have even higher uptime on a healer if you throw here, say, DK or a frost mage. Just saying.
Literally no melee can handle resto druids right now. They are too slippery. You literally have to spam hamstring on him to keep up (basically wasting all of your rage doing no damage while druids is healing up thanks to hots). IMO there should be 3-4 seconds lockout from shapeshifting.
But if there is someone who can keep him in place (like, UH DK), his ability to participate in a fight is very limited (basically, like me being limited to spam hamstring, he is limited to shapeshift until DK is out of runes. And he is never out of runes i must add. And he gets runic power while doing that to feed it to his Valkire

[Shauren]

Uh, you guys got the Ashbringer, wtf do you want more?

[Rothg]

Not every ret will take steed. IMO 60% almost-100%-uptime-sprint is way better, unless dispelled 24/7. Even when dispelled 24/7 - you draw enemy dispels to yourself, away from your allies and from more important buffs.
CC is very limited now, if you eat a stun into your 45 cooldown - it's OK, but people will hold their stuns for rogues evasion and warriors retaliation and finishing off important targets, than waste it on a ret riding a horse into a battle (yes, i used the word "waste" here, because if a simple press of a 45 seconds cooldown makes your opponent think "i either use my only stun on him right now, or i get hurt a lot" - it was a freaking good use of 45 seconds cooldown)
I'm not a fan of stacking all of your movement enhancing abilities in one go, it's too easy to counter.

Ret will have even higher uptime on a healer if you throw here, say, DK or a frost mage. Just saying.
Literally no melee can handle resto druids right now. They are too slippery. You literally have to spam hamstring on him to keep up (basically wasting all of your rage doing no damage while druids is healing up thanks to hots). IMO there should be 3-4 seconds lockout from shapeshifting.
But if there is someone who can keep him in place (like, UH DK), his ability to participate in a fight is very limited (basically, like me being limited to spam hamstring, he is limited to shapeshift until DK is out of runes. And he is never out of runes i must add. And he gets runic power while doing that to feed it to his Valkire

Seal of Light is always and only a 20% movement increase. The more holy power used only increases the duration, not the speed.

[Charge me Doctor]

Seal of Light is always and only a 20% movement increase. The more holy power used only increases the duration, not the speed.

Well i guess i'll still try it out because i really want some alternative to steed

[Otimus]

We're being eternally punished for that one time we were pretty good in WOTLK. The funny thing is, is people who don't know the game very well will still assume that Rets are juggernauts. It's happened since WOTLK, every expansion, when we've basically always been relegated to a PVP joke to anyone who knows better.

The life of a ret is a struggle. Still, I'd rather play it than any other spec/class. (That being said, I do have like 6 or 7 100's!)

[Regalbeast]

It's pre-patch. If Ret is still terrible after 110 and artifact/pvp talents then you can complain.

[Snegovik]

-snip-

Yeh if we spec into WoG we get an instant healing, but it has a rather long CD and you have to spend 3 HP per charge (2 charges) and when you are getting kited by MW, Arcane, Hunter, UH, etc it is very hard to build up those 3 HPs. For other melee classes it is 100% easier to build up resources to heal or they do not spend any DPS resources for healing at all (feral, war for example)

Yes, but you forget, our CC get dispelled fully, we are ONLY melee in game, which ALL cc can be dispelled.

LOH, cant use it in rated PvP :P, even though i wish we could.

War has much better mobility than Ret, simply of charges and you can not dispel its slow. And lets say you are dueling an Arcane mage, you wont even touch him with a 30 sec cd slow and 45 sec cd 3 sec charge =) trust me on that one lol. Ret has the worst mobility out of all. Also for War, shock wave if used properly has 20 sec cd and u cant dispell it and its aoe stun AND it deals dmg, compared to our 60 sec base cd stun which can be dispelled with its crappy 10 yards range (means you can not HOJ heals with same ease as you could in past xpacs) while War's storm bolt can not be dispelled and has higher range, which makes it perfect for CCing healers in arena.

Dealing burst well not sure about that, unless target sits in a stun and you pop wings + get 3 JV procs then yeas, but Ret almost always had higher burst than most, yet it did not do us any good. Sustain and AOE pressure is where its at, wars, enh, ferals, UK, DH, rogues have better sustain dmg than Rets (not sure about WW, but from what i hear, WWs are gods of 1v1 on beta, hence should be also good @ sustain/burst). See how Blizzard stated somewhere back, that melee with Low mobility will be compensated by dmg, survival, utility while Ret has crap DMG, low survival, and no REAL utility.

Not all melee got stripped of a major part of their abilities like Rets did, Arms and Fury wars actually feel way way better, Feral is pretty much the same, WW got better, Enh is also in a very good spot, Rogues...well Rogues are always good lol, and DHs have amazing dmg, amazing mobility.

For Ret it is almost impossible to stick to some spec if the latter do not want to lol like MW, WW, arcane, BM, UH, Feral, Rogue, Elem, and list goes on. Further more, ret is still NOT viable in RBGs.

- - - Updated - - -

Uh, you guys got the Ashbringer, wtf do you want more?

Lol exactly, Blizzard thinks the same way =), whats all the fuzz about, clearly a l2play issue on Rets' part =)

- - - Updated - - -

Why the fuck are people STILL complaining about anything pre-110? jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez

Actually 95% of Beta Ret's feedback on blizzard's official forum is all negative, we are not complaining about the numbers here we are talking about the clusterfuk they call Ret's design and talents

[SteveRocks]

I'm sorry but it needs to be said: Retr is a joke .. I play Ele and I'm calling Retr rubbish!

Either I'm going up against the worst Retr players in the history of WoW or this spec can't do damage at all ... It's not because the spec can't do damage per say rather others simply take a step or two in any direction and negate the ENTIRE FREAKIN' SPEC!

Edit: For the sake of this being a productive spec I'll add suggestions:

1) Horse in combat talent needs to be CC immune plain and simple ..
2) Horse in combat talent needs to be base line plain and simple ..
3) Retr needs a snare built in like Enh and Feral plain and simple ..

1. I have NEVER heard the spec referred to as "Retr." It's just Ret.
2. I agree the in-combat mount ability should be CC-immune.

[marinos]

It's pre-patch. If Ret is still terrible after 110 and artifact/pvp talents then you can complain.

Its the same shit at 110, thats the problem. Dont have to wait for legion to go live to see that when we have that thing called beta.

[docterfreeze]

divine steed should be baseline, it should also remove and suppress all movement impairing effects. Everything else is fine.

But what talent should replace divine steed in the tree? I think it would be cool if there was a talent that made divine steed lock onto a target and charge them argent tournament style, when we reach the target it would stun them for a couple seconds.