The motivation behind these attacks were unclear.

[Sama-81]

Well look at the last two incidents.

Stole money and stabbed a guy.

Sexual harassment.

Were those specifically related to religion? Are they things that only people of a certain religion do? Or are they pretty damn common crimes across all racial, religious, etc backgrounds?

I'm not going to dispute you there, even though the church-trashing was obviously done with religion as a direct motivator. I merely pointed out that trying to equate christianity and islam in regards to crimes committed in it's name, in the present day (and in particular Europe), is entirely a fool's errand. The two are nothing alike in that sense. What particular crimes that actually belong in that group, however, is obviously another matter entirely. One I can't say I'm particularly interested in, myself.

[Zoibert the Bear]

So how does, "Robbed someone and stabbed them" relate to this?

Or sexual harassment?

Because people from a country where this kind of shit is not regarded as a serious crime, or even a crime at all, are prone to keep doing it.

How can you be so dense? We are not saying that they are monsters, I bet 99% of them are seriously GOOD people.

But it only takes a few. You should read up on fatwa.

[Narwal]

So how does, "Robbed someone and stabbed them" relate to this?

Or sexual harassment?

In this case, we are associating the crime of sexual harassment by islamic refugees with their association to sharia law, see political islam. The accusation here is that they will commit sexual harassment because it's not frowned upon in their islamic up-bringing. That it is a right of their men, to harass women. That the crime is not done by bad people who want to break the law, but by people who have been taught by a political system that women have no right to deny your advancement. This is why political islam is a target for scrutiny by the West.

What many/some of the West do not like about the refugees coming in, is their upbringing in a political system that doesn't have some basic human decency laws. This means logically, that there will be an increase in crimes by those people who have never had a law against those actions in the past.

What the PC side does in this, is try to handwave away the crime and say "there's criminals in every group of people". What the otherside is trying to say is that their crime rate is higher than the general population, and if that participation rate in crime is too high, that maybe it's a bad idea to let them in, at least without some sort of rehabilitation program for these people to condition them better to "right and wrong".

[Zoibert the Bear]

Well, those two incidents are part of the issue that bothers me, though. We take ANY crime from an immigrant/muslim and start painting with the biggest brush we can find, even if it wasn't religiously motivated. Even if it's a common crime with common motives.

Then if you question that broad painting, people start acting like you're some kind of crazy person. (See: Primalmatter)

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So how much sexual harassment takes place in the US? Does it only take a few of us? Or are we immune to the broad-strokes treatment?

The difference id that sexual harassment is both badly regarded and a crime there.

Big fucking difference too.

[Dezerte]

Well, those two incidents are part of the issue that bothers me, though. We take ANY crime from an immigrant/muslim and start painting with the biggest brush we can find, even if it wasn't religiously motivated. Even if it's a common crime with common motives.

This is a common trend that I also see. There's nothing reasonable nor logical about generalizations (and other fallacies).

[primalmatter]

So why are you telling me all about this "one side"? Am I automatically a member of this "one side" if I don't just agree that every crime by an immigrant is indicative of some huge cultural rift and that I should be opposed to all immigrants and muslims?

Depends. Do you make more exceptions for them then just as a example a neo nazi?

Not every immigrant crime is a part of a trend but when you defend them every single time... well then you could be who I am talking about.

[Narwal]

Sure, and there are certainly issues with this in middle eastern nations, almost all (or just all all?) of which have issues with womens rights.

Still, an incident of sexual harassment isn't a reason to break out the broad brushes and start talking about "immigrants" or "muslims" in the general sense. Especially when it's a hugely common crime in the US as well, and one that many of our citizens tend to not take seriously, or otherwise diminish.

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I'm not "defending" the perpetrators of these crimes, if that's on your radar at all.

If a Christian with a gun shoots a doctor in an abortion clinic, a broad brush will be painted as to their reasoning. The reason a broad brush is applied, is because it's usually the most "logical" reason for something. It doesn't mean it's the actual reason, but it is typically a likely reason. If a man comes from a country with no sexual harassment laws, and proceeds to sexually harass a woman, it is entirely logical to assume the prior is a motivation for the act.

This kind of assessment is done all the time, even by the President of the US. He's made statements on specific incidents of a white cops killing a black man relating them to a broader issue of systemic racism, before knowing the details of the specific case he's using to catapult the discussion into that broader issue. If it fits the narrative, it will be used.

[Sama-81]

Well, those two incidents are part of the issue that bothers me, though. We take ANY crime from an immigrant/muslim and start painting with the biggest brush we can find, even if it wasn't religiously motivated. Even if it's a common crime with common motives.

Then if you question that broad painting, people start acting like you're some kind of crazy person. (See: Primalmatter)

Well, I can understand your concern about that part, and I do agree with you. Well, at least as long as crime rates are similar to those of the natives, once the difference there is too steep, the situation changes somewhat. But that is another matter entirely, and in general I certainly do agree.

[Felya]

The real question for you is do you bring up Islam's really absurd treatment of women and homosexuals when people talk about the opposition to abortions and gay marriage by political Christians an Christian groups? I've always wondered if people who do that do it for every religion.

Because in US we spent 8 years arguing if the president is Muslim. Just a couple of weeks ago, Trump went on a tirade claiming neither Obama or Clinton's were actually Christian, to embolden an evangelical crowd. The GOP platform includes swaying laws to respect religion and they are not talking Muslims.

In US abortion rights, gay rights and biblical education is not driven by Muslims. Muslims have no judicial power in US, where even an unfounded idea of a president being Muslim, was all that is needed to suspect him of wrong doing. The nonsense of why Muslims are not targeted in demanding gay marriage and keeping Row v Wade, is because they are not the ones in US that have the power and the will to over turn them.

GOP... "We will appoint judges to over turn Row v Wade and ban gay marriage"... You... "Why don't you tell Muslims to support gay marriage and the right to abortion?"... I think the answer is so obvious, the fact that the question is asked, just shows how absurd attacks on Muslims can get.

[Dextroden]

Because in US we spent 8 years arguing if the president is Muslim. Just a couple of weeks ago, Trump went on a tirade claiming neither Obama or Clinton's were actually Christian, to embolden an evangelical crowd. The GOP platform includes swaying laws to respect religion and they are not talking Muslims.

In US abortion rights, gay rights and biblical education is not driven by Muslims. Muslims have no judicial power in US, where even an unfounded idea of a president being Muslim, was all that is needed to suspect him of wrong doing. The nonsense of why Muslims are not targeted in demanding gay marriage and keeping Row v Wade, is because they are not the ones in US that have the power and the will to over turn them.

GOP... "We will appoint judges to over turn Row v Wade and ban gay marriage"... You... "Why don't you tell Muslims to support gay marriage and the right to abortion?"... I think the answer is so obvious, the fact that the question is asked, just shows how absurd attacks on Muslims can get.

I'm sorry. I can't hear you over the point whooshing right over your head.