Shapeshifting Nerf

[Deleted]

Feral Druid artifact will give you 100% dodge and armor when you shift out of cat form for 5 seconds or until you go back to cat form with a 30 seconds CD, you can shape to any other form and will get the buff.

[Saverem]

No offense, but this was a much needed nerf.

[Unholyground]

Lappe, I have nothing but the most respect for you as a career long Druid main; that being said, I have to agree with him. As a multi-glad druid, I can't possibly see how we will be 'okay' without being able to get any ground on melee.

Honestly, after shifting into another form you should get a short snare immunity buff, like 2 seconds.

[Juvencus]

Couldn't have said it better myself. Now take away their ridiculous OP instant flightform.

How do you measure power on an exclusively non-combat ability?

Is Teleport: Dalaran OP?

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There's also absolutely nothing "clunky" about this change and you're just throwing around Blizzard's favorite feedback term. If anything, powershifting was truly "clunky" because of its mechanics - after all, you had to make a specific macro just for it to work at all, there was no spellbook ability you could just drag to your bars to accomplish it. How does that seem natural?

It sure was "natural" enough when they added it on purpose (TBC or WotLK?) because Druids were getting caught outside of form during the transition and stabbed to death.

[Auberdeen]

It was OP in bear form though. You instantly got 20 rage on every shift. So you could spend all your rage, powershift and get 20 rage back instantly. About the feral mobility thing, they want mobility overall to go down. The passives anyways. A lot of people have lost the ability to passively reduce movement speed by 50% now. Which means people need to use active buttons to slow you. This'll probably make a difference.

by overall do you mean for Feral or all classes? because it really seems that they are trying to... INCREASE mobility, i.e. wraith walk, arcane blink fest, HavocDH toolkit, Prot/Ret mount while in combat for 3 secs, warrior/vengeance triple leap just to name some. idk, maybe they are trying to increase the ABILITY to add mobility? because not all those things i just mentioned are baseline talents.... or maybe just increasing the escapability?

[jackofwind]

Wait really it was intentional then?

Uh, yeah. Completely and well documented.

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I didn't know other classes had to spend an unreducible 1.5sec gcd every time they want to access their spec's abilities. Or every time they want to use offspec abilities.

The benefits of shapeshifting are paid by the shapeshift gcd and the spell restriction of forms. The Legion's added cd lock is unwarranted punishment.

LOL other classes don't even get "offspec abilities". If you're sad about a 1.5s gcd to access offspec abilities try playing with the rest of us where to access them we have to actually, you know, change specs.

ITT: Druids are blind to how good they've had it for years.

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How do you measure power on an exclusively non-combat ability?

If it's not powerful then make all flying mounts instant cast. If you don't want that to happen then you might be able to see why its incredibly powerful to have it instant cast.

Castable while moving/jumping/falling, non interruptible, instant escape once out of combat. If you can't see the power vs. normal flying mounts then you're potato-ing hard.

[Tellof]

If it's not powerful then make all flying mounts instant cast. If you don't want that to happen then you might be able to see why its incredibly powerful to have it instant cast.

Castable while moving/jumping/falling, non interruptible, instant escape once out of combat. If you can't see the power vs. normal flying mounts then you're potato-ing hard.

It's only really powerful in open-world PVP, which is much more free-form to begin with considering there aren't PVP stat templates applied via an instance, and legendaries work. Seeing as that's the case, who cares? Any true competitive PVP will not have to deal with this issue. You seem to want to just take quality of life away from Druid because you don't want them running away from your ganks. How about Aquatic form? Can't keep up with that or out-breath it. Should we take away Vanish from Rogue? How about Paladin Bubble? Warrior can fear and heroic leap away long enough to get out of combat. Mage has freeze + blink. Monks can spin super far away. Again, who cares?

[Ickz]

No, not since "forever."

Also, they nerfed or removed plenty of movement in Legion, which means Druids also need to lack some. Even after this ferals are probably one of the most mobile classes in PvP and it needs to stop.

Fairly certain I remember making /cast !Cat Form, etc macros in vanilla or at the very least TBC. So yes, since "forever".

[jackofwind]

It's only really powerful in open-world PVP, which is much more free-form to begin with considering there aren't PVP stat templates applied via an instance, and legendaries work. Seeing as that's the case, who cares? Any true competitive PVP will not have to deal with this issue. You seem to want to just take quality of life away from Druid because you don't want them running away from your ganks. How about Aquatic form? Can't keep up with that or out-breath it. Should we take away Vanish from Rogue? How about Paladin Bubble? Warrior can fear and heroic leap away long enough to get out of combat. Mage has freeze + blink. Monks can spin super far away. Again, who cares?

I don't care, nor do I want it taken away. I was just saying that to pretend its not a powerful tool simply because its an OOC ability is naive.

[Deleted]

It's only really powerful in open-world PVP, which is much more free-form to begin with considering there aren't PVP stat templates applied via an instance, and legendaries work. Seeing as that's the case, who cares? Any true competitive PVP will not have to deal with this issue. You seem to want to just take quality of life away from Druid because you don't want them running away from your ganks. How about Aquatic form? Can't keep up with that or out-breath it. Should we take away Vanish from Rogue? How about Paladin Bubble? Warrior can fear and heroic leap away long enough to get out of combat. Mage has freeze + blink. Monks can spin super far away. Again, who cares?

Stop with the strawmen already, jackofwind is not saying that any class (druid included) should have their stuff removed, but that druid is on the good side of the quality of life map and pretty much always has been.

I believe it's pretty much indeniable that gathering whithout a mount-cast each time, blink, cat slowfall, the virtual immunity to roots and polymorph, the starfall wod situation and other small things contribute to make druids very versatile and efficient at some things like farming, escaping from dire pvp or pve situation and all.

Now it isn't to say that removing any of those qol perks is the direction to go toward design wise, because it could very well be given similar unique perks to other classes. But there might be valid thematic and practical reasons to add some constraints (like a couple of GCD locked to activate this versatility) to the class to balance it out.

I rolled a druid for the first time because I needed a double gatherer and collecting plants while flying was very valuable, and picked up the character at wod when it was pretty much a requirement to play one for farming purposes because of starfall being so efficient.

[CenariusTheForestLord]

by overall do you mean for Feral or all classes? because it really seems that they are trying to... INCREASE mobility, i.e. wraith walk, arcane blink fest, HavocDH toolkit, Prot/Ret mount while in combat for 3 secs, warrior/vengeance triple leap just to name some. idk, maybe they are trying to increase the ABILITY to add mobility? because not all those things i just mentioned are baseline talents.... or maybe just increasing the escapability?

I misworded my statement there. But they've removed a lot of perma snare abilities. Which was the most annoying part in BG's, and also the reason powershift was really good. They're increasing mobility of low mobility classes, DK's and Pallies literally have nothing but that small cd for movement.

[lappee]

If that's the case, then it was just bad timing to strip bare all offspec abilities and gate them behind affinities.
Removing the incentive AND the (part of) ease of shapeshifting just makes me think wtf.

Blizzard seemingly wants you to have main spec and off-spec where you can perform rather than main spec and 3 off-specs that are in 99% cases useless.
They are not removing any part of the "ease" of shapeshifting into other forms, what they are removing is the magical "puff" that removes all snares/slows that are currently active on you.

Honestly, after shifting into another form you should get a short snare immunity buff, like 2 seconds.

Sure, just put 7 second cd into shapeshifting.

Fairly certain I remember making /cast !Cat Form, etc macros in vanilla or at the very least TBC. So yes, since "forever".

I'm pretty sure you dont even know what an exclamation mark in a macro does...

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It sure was "natural" enough when they added it on purpose (TBC or WotLK?) because Druids were getting caught outside of form during the transition and stabbed to death.

They didnt do anything to "powershifting" in TBC or Wotlk itself, however adding exclamation mark as a macro option for toggleable abilities did help those incapable of controlled casting (aka button smashers) but it wasnt (just) because of "powershifters"

[Deleted]

Great change, makes sense considering passive slows are much rarer now

[Deleted]

Powershifting is literally the defining trait of feral mobility and they just ripped it away

No it was allways an oversight
You should allways have to switch cat -> caster -> cat. they finally fixed it.
PS: your like 12 month late with your complain aint u?

[Mystikal]

Great change, makes sense considering passive slows are much rarer now

I've put several more hours into Ashran, and this simply isn't the case. Unless you're a Warrior, it is now stupidly easy to stick to a Druid like glue.

[Fubar23]

I've put several more hours into Ashran, and this simply isn't the case. Unless you're a Warrior, it is now stupidly easy to stick to a Druid like glue.

Ashran isn't a great place for this kind of feedback imo. Hostile npc's everywhere along with dozens of players from the enemy faction working together using multiple items and buffs you wouldn't normally see in arena or bg's.

I have played a bit of druid in each expansion starting from BC and while I am no expert when it comes to top tier arena game play, I love PvP and have played the various specs enough to be confident in my paying ability. As long as I'm confident that I'm making minimal mistakes while playing, I get a good idea of when a spec isn't really viable and needs more. This is just my opinion of course, but while power shifting was obviously fantastic and most likely needed for druids over the years, I don't feel like this is the case at the moment. The only spec I struggle with mobility atm is balance and even that usually requires more than 1 person(not including stuns). Feral easily has the tools to stay on their target of choice and along with resto can reliably escape.

The extra global cooldown may actually encourage other classes to spend their global cooldowns on a previously useless ability now. Is it so wrong that druids can't(even more easily then they already do)escape the dozens of slows and roots that other classes rely on? And while many classes and specs have new forms of mobility or even slows and roots, for each new trick, they probably lost 2 others. For example, Hunter was my favorite class for pvp the past 2 expansions but their mobility, CC, utility and all around ability to just survive...all pale in comparison to their former glory now.

[Mystikal]

My feedback from Ashran is based on fights away from enemy NPCs, and in smaller engagements where I can easily track who's attacking me, and what class they are.

I am afraid my feedback still stands. I know that I can kite Warriors more easily now that spamstring is gone, but against other melee, it involves a *lot* of shapeshifting to get to a distance where I can cast again.

I'm not against the shapeshifting change per se; more the concept that melee have had their snares and slows reduced. There's nothing wrong with encouraging the use of other forms - indeed, I prefer it - but when I spend 70% of my time dealing almost no damage and shifting into forms that have no abilities to use thanks to the prune, it feels very unsatisfying. Then, add on top of that, the fact that only Warriors have lost their constant snaring abilities.

[CenariusTheForestLord]

My feedback from Ashran is based on fights away from enemy NPCs, and in smaller engagements where I can easily track who's attacking me, and what class they are.

I am afraid my feedback still stands. I know that I can kite Warriors more easily now that spamstring is gone, but against other melee, it involves a *lot* of shapeshifting to get to a distance where I can cast again.

I'm not against the shapeshifting change per se; more the concept that melee have had their snares and slows reduced. There's nothing wrong with encouraging the use of other forms - indeed, I prefer it - but when I spend 70% of my time dealing almost no damage and shifting into forms that have no abilities to use thanks to the prune, it feels very unsatisfying. Then, add on top of that, the fact that only Warriors have lost their constant snaring abilities.

You should always shift into a form you have abilities for due to affinities. If you have resto, use a rejuv before swapping back or a swiftmend. If you have balance, put a moonfire up, if you have Guardian Mangle them and swap back. If you have feral get a rake up or just use up 100 energy.

[Mystikal]

I've tried using my Feral abilities with Feral Affinity, but I got absolutely destroyed due to the lack of any defences.

The closest I've come to a useful Affinity is Guardian Affinity + Renewal + Frenzied Regen, which is a decent burst of healing, but only available once every 2 minutes, and it requires giving up all mobility as a trade-off.

I tried Resto Affinity, but the healing from the spells is so pitiful, it's not worth it.

It would be nice being able to get some distance and actually cast, rather than just rotating Mangle / Moonfire. On the plus side, I suppose if opponents are tunnelling me, that's 10s or so where my allies are piling damage into them freely.

Reading the above, the assumption is that I'm a Feral Druid. I am actually Balance specced.

Also, there is no point using Rake or Rip with Feral Affinity. As soon as you shift out of Cat Form, you lose Killer Instinct, and the damage of your bleeds almost completely disappears.

[JoshuaNLG]

It was rather stupid, let's be honest.

Is it a shame to lose it? Yes, but It's clear why it was removed. You could only powershift via the use of macros', and using them gave you a clear advantage over a druid that wasn't.