Henry Kissinger: To settle the Ukraine crisis, start at the end

[Wildtree]

Kissinger started life as a German hence his accent.

That is inaccurate.
He doesn't have an accent because he started his life as German. He has the accent, because he never abandoned his German roots. He happens to be from my neck of the woods. He was born in Fuerth/Bavaria. Neighbor town from my city. They're merged together. Distance from one city to the next, 0 meters.
He's also a lifelong fan of my city's football club, and visits his hometown frequently, and if possible, attends a game too.

Just setting that straight there..
I've a mixed bag of feelings about him. Whether he's been a great politician or a scumbag, I just cannot make up my mind.

[Deleted]

"Coup" is just an interpretation. Was the French revolution a coup?. Sure, so long as we ignore a whole lot of context.
Geopolitics are cynical and hypocritical. I have no reason to give in to partisan interpretations.

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Like I said, it was irregular.
Euromaiden wasn't the ones ousting the president, though.

No. Coup is the name given to a specific action. There's different interpretations of the world itself. Some claim it has to be military led, some claim it can also be led by any state figure and some other just interpret it as "violent regime change".
Having said that, "Coup" is not an interpretation.
Neither have I, why do you think I do? Do you think "Coup" is a partisan interpretation? It's a name. How else would you call what happened?

No, you said the parliament ousted Yanukovich. That actually never happened as the numbers were not reached. So, why would you state something that did not actually happen?

[nextormento]

The ousting did happen. Just like many unconstitutional things happen. Was it irregular? sure. But it did happen; the parliament simply wasn't all too concerned with following every rule. Nor was Yanukovych very concerned about signing the changes to the constitution that he was required to sign. He refused to follow the democratic order, trying to have his position more powerful than what was deemed correct, and has the gall to compare the events to the rise of the Nazi party. It's hilarious, really.
Incidentally, that is the only thing worthy of being labeled a coup, as Yanukovych and Russia do. But that event wasn't violent, rendering the piece of propaganda sparking this claptrap all too laughable.
I'm happy to announce I won't be responding to this nonsense anymore.

[Deleted]

It was a violent coup ofc. Rhetoric was to make country "European" n not "Russian Oligarcich" n now the president is the biggest oligarch of them all who bankrolled overthrow of democracy n bann opposition parties when people protested he met them with tanks.

[Deleted]

The ousting did happen. Just like many unconstitutional things happen. Was it irregular? sure. But it did happen; the parliament simply wasn't all too concerned with following every rule. Nor was Yanukovych very concerned about signing the changes to the constitution that he was required to sign. He refused to follow the democratic order, trying to have his position more powerful than what was deemed correct, and has the gall to compare the events to the rise of the Nazi party. It's hilarious, really.
Incidentally, that is the only thing worthy of being labeled a coup, as Yanukovych and Russia do. But that event wasn't violent, rendering the piece of propaganda sparking this claptrap all too laughable.
I'm happy to announce I won't be responding to this nonsense anymore.

So we have an ousting happening irregolarly, following protests with 100+ deaths that brough government buildings on fire and people on the run, and yet you think calling it a coup is just propaganda.

Basically, yet another pathetic attempt at throwing shit by someone so entrenched in his partisan views to even be able to call a spade a spade.

You have a good vocabulary though, so at first the readers might be confused. Unfortunately though, the contents are the same expressed by the likes of Crispin so well... When you have no content you have to rely on something else I guess.

[Crispin]

So first you tell us that lying in politics sets the context for an undemocratic coup, and then, while obviously embarassed by your outlandish claims, you try a PATHETIC attempt at throwing shit at me?
Ahahah Crispin. The door's that way. Come back when you actually MEAN the stuff you SAY.

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Why do you add a level to the discussion i'm not even beginning to consider?
Was it, or was it not a violent coup?

Not throwing shit tbh, but as usual you prefere to dodge questions and ask rather stupid questions instead.

Here's an easy one, the attempted coup against hitler was alright? Context matters, I hope you'll manage an actual reply instead of dodging because you realise that your stance (context doesnt matter) is flawed.

[Deleted]

Not throwing shit tbh, but as usual you prefere to dodge questions and ask rather stupid questions instead.

Here's an easy one, the attempted coup against hitler was alright? Context matters, I hope you'll manage an actual reply instead of dodging because you realise that your stance (context doesnt matter) is flawed.

that moment when this

ask rather stupid questions instead

turns into this

the attempted coup against hitler was alright?

[Crispin]

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Bit different, I don't foresee Kim holding any (real) elections in the foreseeable future.

Democracy isnt a requirement for a coup.

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that moment when this

turns into this

But you said context does not matter, I assume you're trying to say that it obviously does then, otherwise you might want to try an adult response.

[May90]

Context matters, I hope you'll manage an actual reply instead of dodging because you realise that your stance (context doesnt matter) is flawed.

I wouldn't waste your time with him. Dodging is his last name.

[Crispin]

I wouldn't waste your time with him. Dodging is his last name.

Next step would be to paint a drawing for him, but he's arguing for the sake of arguing. Cba anymore tbh

[Deleted]

But you said context does not matter, I assume you're trying to say that it obviously does then, otherwise you might want to try an adult response.

I never said that?

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I wouldn't waste your time with him. Dodging is his last name.

Not my fault you can't make an analogy or a comparison or pose a question without stepping into ridiculousness. I'm not going to step into ridiculousness because you guys lack arguments.

[caervek]

Democracy isnt a requirement for a coup.

No but it does alter the legitimacy of it. I.E a coup against a dictator like Kim is generally seen as bad but a coup against a democratic government is generally seen as bad (unless they are not pro-EU as we saw in Ukraine).

[Deleted]

So we have an ousting happening irregolarly, following protests with 100+ deaths that brough government buildings on fire and people on the run, and yet you think calling it a coup is just propaganda.

Basically, yet another pathetic attempt at throwing shit by someone so entrenched in his partisan views to even be able to call a spade a spade.

You have a good vocabulary though, so at first the readers might be confused. Unfortunately though, the contents are the same expressed by the likes of Crispin so well... When you have no content you have to rely on something else I guess.

Me I hate muslims, turks n Erdogan like you can't believe YET I'd still call it coup when they recently tried to overthrow that Erdogan. Seems to be Western cultural trait to lie.

[May90]

No but it does alter the legitimacy of it. I.E a coup against a dictator like Kim is generally seen as bad but a coup against a democratic government is generally seen as bad (unless they are not pro-EU as we saw in Ukraine).

This I think is a principal mistake many people make. There is a difference between democratic government and democratically elected government. A government installed after democratic elections is not necessarily democratic, i.e. acting democratically. Syrian government is not democratic, Russian government is not democratic, Ukrainian government (both the previous and the current one) is not democratic - regardless of how they came to power.

A coup against a democratically elected government that is authoritarian is not nearly as big of a deal, as a coup against a democratically elected government that is democratic. It is still more of a deal than a coup against a non-democratically installed government that is not democratic.

---

In this regard, recent Western support of Erdogan is pretty despicable.

[artemishunter1]

Not really. Once again, Maidan was not an unified movement at all. Maidan was a movement lead by a minority of opposition. You can't state "Ukraine" wanted anything as "Ukraine" did not vote on anything. Totally agree here. Unfortunately we will never know what would have happened as the democratic process was interrupted, AND supported. When did that happen? before or after the democratic process was interrupted and a minority of opposition came into power in a non-democratic way?

It happend before. Ukraine gov't decided not to be in Eurocentric, but then people protested in the streets. The protests dragged on for a month. Then, president or whatever the leader was, banned protests. Which led to the CU from the people, the president fled to Russia. Then Russia started the Crimean crisis, since crimean province was already ethnicly Russian and Russian Immigrants. Then, West got involved because such a land grab was inconceible after WWII. Now, West started suction and forifying the Ukraine, in such a way that It does not piss off Russia too much but also allows early warning system if Russia goes full soviet again.