Exsang or Agonizing now?

[MaddyLif3]

So with Exsang nerf, are we still using it or should we go to Agonizing, or even Alacrity? I have dropped a pretty decent amount of dps just with the nerf, just wondering what others are doing? Also, should I just stop freaking out and wait till 110 and artifact?

[Zzaj]

So with Exsang nerf, are we still using it or should we go to Agonizing, or even Alacrity? I have dropped a pretty decent amount of dps just with the nerf, just wondering what others are doing? Also, should I just stop freaking out and wait till 110 and artifact?

Exsang nerf is roughly an 8% dps reduction.

It's still better than agonizing.

[Minka]

Exsang nerf is roughly an 8% dps reduction.

It's still better than agonizing.

The fuuny thing is why do i miss so much dps on fights then?

Much more then 8%. The number has to be wrong

[Sarrus1]

switch to outlaw a more effective spec by far... ST can only carry you so far

[Wow]

The fuuny thing is why do i miss so much dps on fights then?

Much more then 8%. The number has to be wrong

It's probably right under normal circumstances however on fast kills and burst for the ring it's a much larger effect.

[Todesbote]

You just believe someone who says its "8%" without providing information on how he got to this number? Well, there is your problem.

If you account for the currently very short fight times in HFC, the emphasis on burst phases with Potion + Ring + Bloodlust. I don't really buy 8%. Should be a lot more.

[Minka]

You just believe someone who says its "8%" without providing information on how he got to this number? Well, there is your problem.

If you account for the currently very short fight times in HFC, the emphasis on burst phases with Potion + Ring + Bloodlust. I don't really buy 8%. Should be a lot more.

It is a lot more I just seen it yesterday in the raid. The Bust phase with combined cd's is so fucking weak compared to pre nerf.

[Geoffar]

http://imgur.com/a/BvZN0 Last weeks dps

http://imgur.com/a/dbJ29 This weeks dps

Seems like a much more than 8% difference to me.

[therealstegblob]

http://imgur.com/a/BvZN0 Last weeks dps

http://imgur.com/a/dbJ29 This weeks dps

Seems like a much more than 8% difference to me.

Try using a calculator. It's pretty much 8-10% across the board, dude, lol.

[Deleted]

Try using a calculator. It's pretty much 8-10% across the board, dude, lol.

THe best Assassination goes from 122k to 95k. Thats around 28-30%

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I guess if you go for agonizing then you should probably lean entirely to a poison spec instead of a bleed spec but wouldn't that also affect your stat priorities (from versa/crit back to full mastery).

I find the bleeds satisfying in pvp atm and I have no intention to drop exsanguinate but if I went for agonizing I would overhaul the tree and lean to general poisoning.

Indeed it would. Mastery would go from shit to golden basicly.
Also the spec would go from pretty fun to boring.

The exanguinate nerf already made it much slower, but without hemo and exanguinate the specs just.... meh

[Deleted]

Are these figures for pve dps? I don't feel such a disparity in pvp.

This is from archimonde on mythic. The reason its so high is because burst is so incredibly important in HFC because the fights are relatively short. So maybe if we had like a 14 min Encounter it would only be 8-10%.

I'm honestly not sure about pvp.

[Minka]

Are these figures for pve dps? I don't feel such a disparity in pvp.

In pvp exsang was already 100% pre nef so for pvp it changes nothing. Only pve got hit

[akaTheDude]

In pvp exsang was already 100% pre nef so for pvp it changes nothing. Only pve got hit

Wait...is this true?

[Zzaj]

Ah that would explain the no difference lol. Thanks

I guess the asshurt is real....

its 8% at 110 on 4-6 min fight (most of the raid encounters), who cares about 100 and months old content.

Of course its a bigger hit without artifact traits, with ring, etc and 2 min fights.

[Deleted]

I guess the asshurt is real....

its 8% at 110 on 4-6 min fight (most of the raid encounters), who cares about 100 and months old content.

Of course its a bigger hit without artifact traits, with ring, etc and 2 min fights.

Interesting. Where is your source of info for this?

[Zzaj]

400% exsang provided 28*(4/5)=22.4 extra seconds, 100% exsang provides 28*(1/2)=14 seconds.
With .3 (vendetta) modifier that's 29.12 and 18.2 sec.
2nd provides 36*(4/5)=28.8 and 36*(1/2) = 18.0
3rd one provides 36*(4/5)*1.3 = 37.44 and 36*(1/2)*1.3 = 23.4

So, over the course of 6 minute fight you're going to get (6*60)/45+1 = 9 exsangs.

Out of those, 1st = 29.12 and 18.2, 2/4/6/8th = 28.8 and 18.0, and 3/5/7/9th are 37.44 and 23.4 for a total of 29.12 + 28.8*4 + 37.44 *4 = 294.08 or 183.8 seconds worth of rupture.

You're going to get about 294.08 / 183.8 seconds of extra rupture.

Considering that atm with exsang, our rupture dmg was ~50% (which is also how much it is in legion, due to a number of added dmg sources, excluding tier bonuses), we get exsang providing (294.08/(360+294.08)) % of our rupture dps which is 44.96%, which, if rupture is 50% of our dmg is about 22.48% dps (relative, when comparing vs no talent it is 28.99).

Now, we can't say that with weaker rupture we'll have the same % breakdown, but we established that 360+294.08 seconds worth of rupture was 50% of our dps. So we can say that our total dps was (360+294.08)*2 = 1308.16 seconds of our rupture. Therefore without exsang we would have 1014.08.

Now, we already know that the nerfed rupture will only produce 183.8 seconds worth of rupture ticks, therefore, our new total is 1014.08 + 183.8 = 1197.88

This also tells us that new Exsang value is about 18.12%.

If we divide our new dps by our old dps we get 1197.88 / 1308.16 = 0.9156
Which is 91.56% worth of dps, or about 8.44% nerf to our dps.

The extra garrote ticks are the same in both scenarios.

While we do lose some amount of muti/envenoms due to less energy, this is not that big of a change.

[Notter]

Do these calculation keep in mind that 400% exsang synergizes with burst phases?
like heroism/trinkets etc.

while your calculation have made my brain melt and are impressive. I think we need to look at this in a broader way.
doing a lot of damage, in a small time frame, has a lot of benefits in this game.

[Zzaj]

doing a lot of damage, in a small time frame, has a lot of benefits in this game.

Even with the change, a full exsang rupture ticks down in ~14s which should be sufficient for priority targets or other buffs gained.

Some priority targets in HFC died a little faster than that but the ring has really skewed how fast stuff dies.


*on a personal note, I find the spec much less enjoyable with this change

[Notter]

Even with the change, a full exsang rupture ticks down in ~14s which should be sufficient for priority targets or other buffs gained.

Some priority targets in HFC died a little faster than that but the ring has really skewed how fast stuff dies.

but again, it's not just the 14s
it's also the 2nd rupture ticks you're missing because you start them later

[Zzaj]

The analysis accounts for the loss in extra ticks you would have gotten.