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  1. #1

    Question DISC vs HOLY for Legion

    Hey guys. I've been delving through these priest forums for a while now. I know theres a lot of mixed information and opinions.
    I'm happy with discipline as it is. I like holy too.

    Curious what people who have played the beta think will be the stronger healing spec at level 110, no matter the dps factor. I will be healing a small raid group and want to heal as best as possible. I know that artifact weapon talents enhance a lot of the class and specifics.

    I'd hate to spend all my time on holy because it feels more solid and then disc ends up getting a sick buff or vice versa. Looking for a basic role call on what spec every healing priest will be playing as a main and why [outside of the typical "I hate disc now"]. Looking for numbers and logic, not inability to adapt or unwillingness.

    If there is a better thread that will answer my question, please link it.

    Thank you for your time!

  2. #2
    Discipline will likely be balanced with it's DPS in mind, so Holy will do more HPS.

    I'm maining Disc in Legion and my plan is for Holy to be my 2nd spec, to cover various situations including when the group needs higher HPS or if Discipline ends up being undertuned.

    I really enjoy the complicated and interesting playstyle of Disc so I'm hoping it's balanced well enough to allow those of us who enjoy it to play it.

  3. #3
    Holy is probably the safest bet for artifact points and maining. That said, Disc is more fun for me personally. If you don't plan on any shadow then you shouldn't have a problem keeping both Disc and Holy artifacts competitive.

    My biggest hurdle is that I will likely be shadow for raids as my guild is full up on healers in that setting but for mythic 5 mans we will likely need more healers and I'm very much on the fence between safe vs fun.

  4. #4
    per conversation between @Totaltotemic and myself, I was curious about which artifact to "main" and which to have as my secondary. I plan on swapping between both as there's a need for it.

    It depends on how far ahead you're looking. Disc needs this http://www.wowhead.com/artifact-calc...N-AzfwM4ADVBAQ to hit the numbers the spec is supposed to while Holy needs

    http://www.wowhead.com/artifact-calc...NPAzUAM1EDVCAQ

    However you are right that Holy can afford to be behind better than Disc can at least up until that point. Beyond there, Holy actually gains a lot more from additional traits than Disc does.

    So my advice would be to get Disc up to Confession + Sins of the Many and then go all out on Holy

  5. #5
    The Lightbringer Ahovv's Avatar
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    The thing is, people are focusing too much on the atonement aspect of disc rather than Power word: Barrier + the associated legendary. As I've said in other threads, if you're running disc, you should be DPSing 95%+ of the time, not bothering to apply atonement except for very specific players getting focused down with dots on encounters (such as Gift of the Man'ari on Socrethar).

    So disc and holy cover different uses within the raid. Holy is a general purpose raid healer, while Disc focuses mostly on DPS with very specific timings for healing.

  6. #6
    I really don't agree with that, Ahovv. It's not logical. A single GCD for one player or 1.67 GCDs for 3 players (Radiance) gives them 15 or 17 seconds of healing. It doesn't make sense to treat a healer spec as if it's main function is DPS - just play Shadow if you consider your role in the raid/group to be DPS.

    The overall output of Disc crashes to the ground when we DPS 95%+ of the time. The additional DPS we get from that approach, even with the wise selection of Schism under those conditions, is far below the HPS that we lose.

    Efficiency-wise, Disc is a healer. It's not a DPS spec with utility spells like Barrier. Just because The Struggle is Real with respect to attaining high HPS doesn't transform the spec into something it's not.

    The big problem with Barrier is the same as it's always been - it requires several people to be in close proximity to each other, which is a rare occurrence in most raid groups. Barrier will certainly be boosted by the Demon Hunter invasion in Legion, so at worst Barrier can at least be cast on top of the boss and mitigate damage to the larger number of melee in Legion compared to WoD, but it's not a cooldown that has certain value in every fight.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Ahovv View Post
    The thing is, people are focusing too much on the atonement aspect of disc rather than Power word: Barrier + the associated legendary. As I've said in other threads, if you're running disc, you should be DPSing 95%+ of the time, not bothering to apply atonement except for very specific players getting focused down with dots on encounters (such as Gift of the Man'ari on Socrethar).

    So disc and holy cover different uses within the raid. Holy is a general purpose raid healer, while Disc focuses mostly on DPS with very specific timings for healing.
    Any player following this logic would do absolutely terrible healing while not managing to do more than a third of actual DPS spec's damage. Do not listen to anything in this post, as it is extremely misinformed. The legendary effect referenced here does less than the healing of a well set up Light's Wrath even if the entire raid is under the Barrier and it is certainly not a major source of healing.

    For reference, it is only possible to have one Penance under Barrier which would do 784% SP healing (after Confession trait) to anyone under the Barrier, while even a Light's Wrath on 12 people will be healing for that much per Atonement (1725% SP damage with Sins of the Many --> 772.8% healing per Atonement) and not only does LW have half of the cooldown of Barrier, but also has no range restriction whatsoever... and Light's Wrath only accounts for 5-10% of total healing done. After Barrier for the Devoted, Light's Wrath itself will do double the ring's healing if it is used under Barrier. That legendary is a minuscule amount of total healing, and even thinking about it when deciding what to do for the rest of the fight is incorrect.

  8. #8
    Since it's pretty relevant to the discussion, here's the blog+math I found that's been floating around about viability to dual spec (Tl;dr, is for awhile) https://felconcentration.wordpress.c...ing-artifacts/

    (And not mine)
    Quote Originally Posted by Unmerciful Conker View Post
    What?! They said soon? Well you dont hear that everyday, I dont know about you guys but that has put my mind at total rest.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Krazzorx View Post
    Since it's pretty relevant to the discussion, here's the blog+math I found that's been floating around about viability to dual spec (Tl;dr, is for awhile) https://felconcentration.wordpress.c...ing-artifacts/

    (And not mine)
    If you want to skip to the good part, https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=689433530

    TL;DR you can reasonably keep 1 artifact within ~3 traits of your main before you start significantly falling behind on your main artifact.

    As for what you should play, where exactly Holy falls among the various healers in terms of raw healing is difficult to assess because there isn't a lot of data on how the specs measure up once everyone has a legendary or two, as well as the fact that things like Symbol of Hope and Divine Hymn's healing amp do provide extra healing to the raid that isn't listed on any chart as being attributed to the Holy Priest.

    For now, Holy seems okay but not great or anything. It is pretty easy to play though once you get a handle on mana management for Legion.

    As for Disc, you should do comparable healing to others as Disc at the highest levels of play, but if you're not doing Mythic raiding it can be a bit more unpredictable as group sizes change and as people are less careful about doing mechanics correctly.

  10. #10
    Mechagnome Pearl1717's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahovv View Post
    The thing is, people are focusing too much on the atonement aspect of disc rather than Power word: Barrier + the associated legendary. As I've said in other threads, if you're running disc, you should be DPSing 95%+ of the time, not bothering to apply atonement except for very specific players getting focused down with dots on encounters (such as Gift of the Man'ari on Socrethar).

    So disc and holy cover different uses within the raid. Holy is a general purpose raid healer, while Disc focuses mostly on DPS with very specific timings for healing.
    What are you even talking about... I almost think you're trolling us with statements like this... At least I hope for the love of god you are.
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  11. #11
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    Ahovv seems under the impression that Discipline priests are Chloromancers. They may be similar in design but that does not mean they will heal in the same manner. I would advise you to do some ingame testing before you comment on Discipline priest again Ahovv. Disregarding the power of (for example, and there are many more) a fully atonement stacked raid alongside Light's Wrath won't make you very desired in raids. Discipline priest raidwide burst healing is the most powerful kind as it stands.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by salamander15 View Post
    Hey guys. I've been delving through these priest forums for a while now. I know theres a lot of mixed information and opinions.
    I'm happy with discipline as it is. I like holy too.

    Curious what people who have played the beta think will be the stronger healing spec at level 110, no matter the dps factor. I will be healing a small raid group and want to heal as best as possible. I know that artifact weapon talents enhance a lot of the class and specifics.

    I'd hate to spend all my time on holy because it feels more solid and then disc ends up getting a sick buff or vice versa. Looking for a basic role call on what spec every healing priest will be playing as a main and why [outside of the typical "I hate disc now"]. Looking for numbers and logic, not inability to adapt or unwillingness.

    If there is a better thread that will answer my question, please link it.

    Thank you for your time!
    If you disregard dps holy is superior in most cases. However without knowing how small a group are you talking about, how many other healers are there and what classes are they running it's kind of hard to tell.

    Even if you go one way and the other gets "sick buff" it's not too hard to keep your offspec artifact at a respectable level so switching between the 2 specs will be pretty easy.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Goshko View Post
    Even if you go one way and the other gets "sick buff" it's not too hard to keep your offspec artifact at a respectable level so switching between the 2 specs will be pretty easy.
    Sad part about this is that while other healers get to just maintain 1 spec for healing and can work on a DPS artifact, we don't get that option. It's extremely beneficial to maintain both healing artifacts, which really doesn't leave all that much for shadow unfortunately, which is quite reliant on Mass Hysteria.

  14. #14
    Can't tell if Ahovv is trolling or just misinformed.

    In his scenario where you have the disc not applying atonements, then you might as well just bring in another dps and not a disc at all.

    Good thing that Ahovv is wrong though and that is not how disc is played.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinze View Post
    Ahovv seems under the impression that Discipline priests are Chloromancers. They may be similar in design but that does not mean they will heal in the same manner. I would advise you to do some ingame testing before you comment on Discipline priest again Ahovv. Disregarding the power of (for example, and there are many more) a fully atonement stacked raid alongside Light's Wrath won't make you very desired in raids. Discipline priest raidwide burst healing is the most powerful kind as it stands.
    It's not "seems", it's absolutely 100% true.

    Walks into any wow-related spec balance/design thread and starts controversial arguments based on his flawed understanding of his previous game and his inconsequential and "who-cares" heyday in it, as if people can't already spot it a mile away from his signature.

    Chloromancers don't need to apply any atonement-equivalent mechanic to even begin accessing the majority of their potential output, but that huge difference in gameplay hasn't stopped him from running away with his false equivalencies.
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  16. #16
    Not sure how many care about this but while the Holy PVP traits look a lot stronger, Disc seems extremely powerful for pvp. The ability to take an interrupt without losing healing power is very amazing, and my Shadow Mends are getting out of control huge. It's also very easy to tab dot and hit a few pleas to keep atonement rolling on a lot of people. It's very easy to train as we have no real escape abilities but I can generally hold 2-3 melee without dying, unless they line up all their cc perfectly (and that is without anyone peeling). i'm strongly considering ditching a Warlock class I love to go back to my original WoW class from 10 years ago, the priest. I feel like Disc is what I've always want a priest to play like.

  17. #17
    Herald of the Titans CptEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahovv View Post
    if you're running disc, you should be DPSing 95%+ of the time, not bothering to apply atonement except for very specific players getting focused down with dots on encounters (such as Gift of the Man'ari on Socrethar).
    Lol worst advice ever

  18. #18
    The Lightbringer Ahovv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CptEgo View Post
    Lol worst advice ever
    Yeah, it's going to be pretty funny once Legion actually hits and people realize a few things.

  19. #19
    Herald of the Titans CptEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahovv View Post
    Yeah, it's going to be pretty funny once Legion actually hits and people realize a few things.
    Atonement is incredibly good and basically what Disc is all about. .

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahovv View Post
    Yeah, it's going to be pretty funny once Legion actually hits and people realize a few things.
    Problem with your "strategy" during mythic progress is that you are effectively cutting a dps player to bring a disc as 5th healer to heal "specific dots". This is not vanilla raiding anymore where you can have a priest sit idly in a corner to ress, sorry to burst your bubble. You will be lacking dps because disc does not even do 50% of a dpser. Or you lack healing if you cut a healer to have a disc just dps 95% of the fight.

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