Mind Spike viable in Legion?

[Deleted]

Hey guys i searched on the forums but haven't found a thread about mind spike in particular so excuse me if i missed it

The question goes out espacially for our friends who had beta access. Did you come across any encounter where Mind spike was a viable choice or even a dps increase?

I see that it is very hard for any talent to compete with StM especially in raids but i just would like to see it used on some encounters where you stack spikes on the main target and use mind blast on another target.

Thanks for your opinions

[anon5123]

Mind Spike is the worst of the 3 talents; Legacy of the Void and Surrender to Madness are better.

[Deleted]

Yes it is not good for most encounters but for example in HFC at Xhul if you stack mind spike on the boss and use mind blast on the big adds you can put out quite some burst on the imps if a dk pulls them together.
Something shadow in general is lacking.
So the question is if there are scenarios in legion where it might be good

[Steelangel]

Call me crazy, but besides the massive DPS boost, doesn't StM kill you? That's a waste of a battle Rez in raids that are progressing and not on farm. We save rezzes for healers that get smashed or a Tank that missed a cooldown.

[Deleted]

Call me crazy, but besides the massive DPS boost, doesn't StM kill you? That's a waste of a battle Rez in raids that are progressing and not on farm. We save rezzes for healers that get smashed or a Tank that missed a cooldown.

Actually you get a 3 minute debuff as soon as you use StM that prevents you from being battle rezzed. So you are out of the fight if you don't use it on the pull which i would not recommend (except for Zakuun atm in hc so much dps)
StM works really well with shadows execute and can help your entire raid to get through enrage phases which many bosses have. That's why my prediction is that StM will be mandatory for most fights.

Still would love to see MS having any place in legion

[Teippi]

Call me crazy, but besides the massive DPS boost, doesn't StM kill you? That's a waste of a battle Rez in raids that are progressing and not on farm. We save rezzes for healers that get smashed or a Tank that missed a cooldown.

if only there was a way to use it so that you die the same time the boss dies :/

You can't be resurrected in combat after you die to StM.

I think you can be ressed after the debuff runs out(?)

[Terminel]

Call me crazy, but besides the massive DPS boost, doesn't StM kill you? That's a waste of a battle Rez in raids that are progressing and not on farm. We save rezzes for healers that get smashed or a Tank that missed a cooldown.

I don't think you can take a brez if you StM. Ideally you'll want to be popping it as close to the point where you die as the boss dies as possible, after which, combat ends and you can just take a normal rez.

[anon5123]

Call me crazy, but besides the massive DPS boost, doesn't StM kill you? That's a waste of a battle Rez in raids that are progressing and not on farm. We save rezzes for healers that get smashed or a Tank that missed a cooldown.

You're supposed to time your use of STM so that you die when the boss dies, or shortly after. C'mon now. Don't be dense and claim that something is bad.

And you can't be battle rezzed for 3 minutes after using STM.

[Deleted]

I think you can be ressed after the debuff runs out(?)

Sure. But that's 3 mins, as others have pointed out.

[Alaidia]

You can be rezzed when the 3 minutes times out. But I've personally, only once, had a fight last long enough that i ended up getting a rez, and that's because i messed up my pull timer and popped StM 30 seconds before pull and my VF lasted for 2:30.

However, i always considered MS a garbage talent because no matter what, delaying your MB is always a DPS loss. But I think the idea of using one target to generate your MS stacks, and the other to dumb a regular rotation into seems like there could be a niche fight for that to work. That's really clever, despite whether or not its viable.

[Khorneflake]

StM will be perfect for most of the progression content, having 2+ mins of insane haste/dot ticks will be invaluable and will completely overshadow Voidlord (pun intended) in terms of overall dps gain.

Mindspike seems to be a waste, voidlord will be... ok, but tbh it just feels so lackluster in comparison.

[Teippi]

Sure. But that's 3 mins, as others have pointed out.

it starts to decrease right when you activate Surrender to Madness, so if you play correctly its like 30 sec wait after you die before you can be ressed.

[Deleted]

it starts to decrease right when you activate Surrender to Madness, so if you play correctly its like 30 sec wait after you die before you can be ressed.

Does it? I was pretty sure the 3 min timer started when you died. As that is your pay-off for the power.

[Narbert]

Does it? I was pretty sure the 3 min timer started when you died. As that is your pay-off for the power.

3 minute no brez debuff starts once you die while STM.

[Atreyis]

I very may well be wrong but I think Mind Spike has to be the single most useless level 100 talent across every single spec in the game at the moment. Sure there are others that might be bad but still somewhat competitive. Mind Spike isn't even close. Blizzard has to see this at least somewhat.

[Teippi]

3 minute no brez debuff starts once you die while STM.

I dunno what you are talking about. For me atleast I get the 3min Surrendered Soul debuff that says I cant be battle ressed when I use Surrender madness. And it does tick down the whole duration of Surrender to Madness. Dunno tho if its some invisible debuff that actually starts when you die since I haven't really raided that much this patch.

[Kalador]

Still would love to see MS having any place in legion

On topic (that was Hard core derail into talk about StM) i'm also very interested into any potential use for Mind Spike, i can see why it so weak (35% SP is nothing) but i'm wondering if it could be use for a bit of ''burst AoE'' for big packs of low life minion in mythic + or in raid where you could either build stack on a somthing and make it explode at the right time or just use it for big packs of small adds we sometime face... I understand that the dmg number on it and the fact that we spend very little time casting mind flay( witch would be the time you spend casting mind spike) make it very very hard to compete but the mechanic of the spell keep me interested.

Did any one actually tired it in legion or the number are so small that it's not even worth a try ?

[Alaidia]

So my idea on MS viabilty, yes i admit it likely isn't but playing devil's advocate here. What if in a M+ dungeon you tunnel into one add your MS using a focus target macro as your filler, but keep dot's rolling on two other targets, or even your MS one as well. I don't MS strips DoT's anymore, and basically wait for 4-5 stacks of MS to pop it with a MB. Obviously using MB on CD for other targets but just leaving that one alone with MB. It's pretty easy to do with focus target macros, and even easier if you use EnemyGrid.

Now yes i understand there's probably a better place for you to use StM and get more out of it, or LotV would be more consistent and MUCH less work. But I'm just throwing ideas out there. Bc as it is I'm just bringing a Blood DK and UH DK for trash dps and im rolling StM to carry boss dmg for M+ in Legion.

[Deleted]

On topic (that was Hard core derail into talk about StM) i'm also very interested into any potential use for Mind Spike, i can see why it so weak (35% SP is nothing) but i'm wondering if it could be use for a bit of ''burst AoE'' for big packs of low life minion in mythic + or in raid where you could either build stack on a somthing and make it explode at the right time or just use it for big packs of small adds we sometime face... I understand that the dmg number on it and the fact that we spend very little time casting mind flay( witch would be the time you spend casting mind spike) make it very very hard to compete but the mechanic of the spell keep me interested.

Did any one actually tired it in legion or the number are so small that it's not even worth a try ?

It doesn't increase your dmg. Mind Spike including its explosion is doing same dmg as a Mind Flay and may do less dmg if you manage to waste stacks. Also cannot be clipped like Mind flay, and even on AoE the useless Mind Sear is actually more usefull.

[Deleted]

Surrender to Madness is just too golden. You can really go insane on voice and dominate damage and all will be wtf till you die. This adrenaline, this awesomeness you cannot find with any other class/spec.