Has it ever occurred to you to read before replying to people? Check the logs. Frost is one of the bottom specs in beta even after 110 and their artifact. Unless my friends and all of the beta players are bad, except for you apparently, know how to play the game.
I never said I liked 2H Frost better. I prefer DW. I only brought up the 2H issue to point out how Blizzard used that as the excuse for Frost being historically mediocre/bad (except for small instances of them being great before getting hotfixed to the ground) and they still fail now in Legion beta. That excuse about not being in a top 10 guild is the crappiest argument anyone can make to justify a spec being subpar compared to everything else. Says a lot about the kind of player you must be.
Why check the logs when I have beta, and leveled as frost, raid tested as frost and did mythic+ as frost? It's not the doomsday scenario you think it is, and if you want to play frost- just play Frost.
I mean- there's sims floating around right now that put Frost in a bad place, but the numbers are hardly final and are based on current tier sets that will most likely be rebalanced later (unless Fire mages are really getting 30% haste all the time), raid tuning hasn't even be finalized yet. So 80% of your argument is speculation and 'I don't have beta, but my friends who do said this'.
Is Frost a top performing spec right now? No. The difference between Frost and Unholy is 25k DPS, and in a patch where the average dps output is 250k, pulling 225 isn't that bad (not that most people pull 90% of their sims anyway).
What you call a doomsday scenario I call the reality of progression. Even half of a percent is relevant. If you care about progression you cannot play Frost in its current state period and I think that's something you have no choice but to agree with. If people in beta are using current tier sets as you say then Frost is in an even worse spot than I thought. Frost T18 4pc is easily one of the most powerful in the game so imagine the massive hit their dps will take when you take that away.
Let's also take into account we are talking strictly about numbers here. If you add in mobility and utility Frost might as well be removed from the game. Can you clear the game's content with Frost in Heroic and below? Of course, easily. That's not the problem here. Again, Frost has no room in progression. They have nothing another class can't do better and that's why Frost is currently among the worst specs.
I played frost on every fight during mythic progression. Sure we didn't kill mythic Archimonde until January, but such is the price for being "allowed" to play what you want.
If you are a good player you could have made just about any spec, save maybe assassination and demo, work for HFC progression. You could always do more damage by playing another spec, but you could also always do more damage by playing better with your current spec. Even when I parsed very high I still made plenty of mistakes that affected my efficiency, so there is always room to improve that doesn't require playing a different spec. Unless you are raiding 20+ hours a week and fighting for top world kill ranks, there are guilds full of skilled players that put more emphasis on their players being happy rather than forcing them into something they don't want to do in the name of "progression".
Perhaps you should look for a change of scenery and stop reading forums like this that are clearly getting you all riled up over anecdotal claims and scenarios that will never apply to you.
I am inclined to not care at all. Because each and every xpac there is DK somewhere soloing relatively relevant content.
I don't care how good your gear is, but content from the current xpac should not be soloable, unless of course everyone can solo it.
anyone in the top 50 would say this tbh, even top 100 guilds... and it isn't as much toxic as having players willing to change specs.
just because people are willing to change specs doesn't mean they won't bitch about it like it's the end of the world behind Gleaders backs.
it's easier now more than ever to switch between specs, and talents.
imho he has no room to bitch if he is in a progression guild with the attitude of "ME ME ME, only what i want counts"
when his attitude should be "hey i think i can parse .5% higher if i go this spec, want me to try?"
because yeah...can change specs all day long now, he can go UH for raid, and frost for everything else.
then again i guess even in the top, there will be people who think about themselves and what they want, more than the 19+ other people, who should by this point have a camaraderie / friendship going.
in such a situation, wouldn't the individual be toxic and not the guild?
Still I cry, tears like pouring rain, Innocent is my lurid pain.
So you are saying it's okay for Blizzard to ignore underperforming specs because if a player wants parity among specs he is just toxic? Great mindset you have there.
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So you admit Unholy performs better when both specs are played at the highest level. There is no parity. Why won't people admit it and instead keep making excuses to justify Blizz?
Our guild is currently US 20, and Our Raid Leader wants a few people with FROST Dk alts, just because of how brokenly op Sindragosa's Fury can be.
Frost may be slow, but its manageable after practice with the class(meaning practice while being so slow), You may have to pre-move more that before, but it's doable.
Frost is in the best spot its been in probably 3-4 years, People just want to complain because you can't top the charts being braindead. The spec is 100% dependent on positioning with multiple abilities, which is something that this game has never had, and I'm enjoying that new mechanic.
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Im not really trying to be toxic here, but if your friends are at the bottom of the logs as frost, they are just plain sub par players.
Saying frost isnt a top 3 spec is fine and all, but there is literally 0 chance a good frost DK will be bottom on any situation(AoE,ST,Stacked Cleave, Spread Cleave) at 110, giving equal player skill.
If you're in a top 100 guild though- you'll do whatever benefits the team the most and not sit around all day contemplating the finer points of Frost vs. Unholy.
This guy is a FOTM DK from BRF that just wants to have 'the most fun topping meters' and isn't ready to accept the reality of what was best in 6.x isn't necessarily going to be the best in 7.x. and instead would rather just shelve the class alltogether because 'a friend with beta' said it wasn't top dps.
Frost has never been FotM. When have I said I want to have "the most fun topping meters"? Frost was never the best in 6.x. When did I say the class must be shelved? Any more things you want to make up?
People like you are what have made the game as unbalanced as it is. You are telling Blizzard it's okay to have specs inferior to every other because you can just jump into whatever is great instead of Blizzard striving to achieve parity. Notice how you cannot dispute Frost doesn't do anything better than any other spec. Oh but it's okay because people can just play Unholy or Rogue right? That's the solution right? Just change spec/class instead of the Blizzard having to work on parity/balance.
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Is Frost better than Rogues and Unholy when played at their maximum potential? This is a yes or no question. We both know the answer.
Depending on the fight...Yes.
no...you want equality among specs down to half a % or less of dps potential, that simply won't happen.
they mentioned a guild would be toxic if they wanted someone to change for progression, i was showing you that in a true progression guild your mindset is backwards
you are there to help the other 19 people in the mythic raid, help your guild get world first/etc.
not the other way around, the players mindset in these top guilds are "i do what it takes"
not "i cry when things dont go my way"
in such a top guild the player would be toxic indeed, not the guild.
but you're right, for most guilds that attitude would be toxic
but how much of the playerbase, is in a top 100 guild, compared to the unnamed masses?
and, stop putting words in my mouth also, i never said blizzard should ignore underpreforming specs, i simply said that attitude in a top guild is whats toxic not the guild itself.
if the difference is 125k vs 150k, that's more than .5%, more than 10%, blizzard SHOULD fix something like that, especially if they are that far below with a class set that compliments frost much more than UH.
but putting words in my mouth? really?
i am beginning to see that, also he likes putting words in peoples mouths.
Last edited by Christan; 2016-08-18 at 04:25 PM.
Still I cry, tears like pouring rain, Innocent is my lurid pain.
I'm not making up anything, it's what I found after a quick jaunt through your post history.
I won't apologize for being better than you, I play both Frost and Unholy and I'm actually torn between which spec I want to raid on in Legion; I'll probably fill out my Unholy artifact first though, even though I think the spec as a whole is flying to close to the sun and is about to melt moments before raid release.
I had absolutely no problems out damaging other people in raids, 5 mans, and small groups as Frost- and if it's a problem for your 'friends', I'm going to say it has more to do with their understand and ability as players and less to do with the spec itself.
In what scenario?
There is no yes or no blanket answer for class performance; assuming there is however, explains a lot about you.
Last edited by Mercane; 2016-08-18 at 04:27 PM.