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  1. #41
    In terms of gameplay and mechanics for damage specs all play well. Unholy is very fun to play. Frost can also be customized to be very simple or have some nuances to spice it up.

    Now for performance DH is what you are looking for OP. It's close to Rogue in terms of melee dps numbers. Amazing mobility (target switching, getting out of trouble, back in action after knockbacks etc), your damage and resources are on you (like others mentioned Unholy can't transfer wounds), ease of play reduces mechanical errors during high pressure situations.

    Frost is terrible so don't even consider it. It has the lowest mobility, damage is mediocre at best, you rely on RNG (Killing Machine procs), 1 grip is all the utility you bring for your group.

    Just look at the first ability from the artifact weapons:

    Frost
    Crystalline Swords: Your melee attacks have a chance to create icy copies of Icebringer and Frostreaper, which will then stab and pierce your foes.
    This is a passive that does wet noodle damage.

    Unholy
    Apocalypse: Strikes the enemy, dealing 900% Physical damage and bursting all Festering Wounds on the target, summoning a member of your Army of the Dead for 15 sec for each burst Festering Wound.
    The description is self explanatory.

    The answer between DK specs should be obvious but you'll do better with DH at the moment.

  2. #42
    Deleted
    I don't know where some of you got this DH > DK mentality from. Sure, DH might have better mobility but from the logs I've seen DK seems to pull off higher DPS in almost all fights.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Cormyr07 View Post
    I don't know where some of you got this DH > DK mentality from. Sure, DH might have better mobility but from the logs I've seen DK seems to pull off higher DPS in almost all fights.
    I think ppl get that mentality from pre-patch: "I can do amazing dps with only invasion gears and 2 talents. Imagine what will happen if I get all the talents at 110?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracovian View Post
    ease of play reduces mechanical errors during high pressure situations.
    Not sure about that. I just can't calmly camera-turn Vengeful Retreat through boss in high pressure situation.
    Last edited by HTowN; 2016-08-19 at 08:21 PM.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Cormyr07 View Post
    I don't know where some of you got this DH > DK mentality from. Sure, DH might have better mobility but from the logs I've seen DK seems to pull off higher DPS in almost all fights.
    Legion beta DH are pulling absurdly high numbers assuming the player knows what he is doing.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracovian View Post
    Legion beta DH are pulling absurdly high numbers assuming the player knows what he is doing.
    Can you link some logs plz?

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    Guess people treat burst differently. Waiting for a Virulent Plague spread into epidemic and DnD+SS spam is not what I mean by burst, I mean pressing a single button without much setup like eye beam and vomiting aoe.
    VP spreads almost immediately, and you can apply it on other targets such as the boss before mobs spawn to not have to waste a GCD, after that you pop up to 3x Epidemic. Unless a DK isn't able to get off a single epidemic, they will prolly outburst almost anyone.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piz813 View Post
    Clearly you haven't touched frost since cata and are just repeating the garbage you hear from other uninformed.

    Frost is not spam howling blast anymore. With a fly powered weapon and select talents frost is doing good and competitive in beta. EVERY one and their cousin is UH. They all have the same exact talent choices. No variety. Frost has a few routes as I mentioned. No one has the same build on beta that I inspect and they all agree frost is good in mythic 10+. Unless you physically played both specs on beta with both weapons powered up, then you can trash a special you don't like all you want
    He was talking about using Howling Blast spam while out of melee range so that you lose less DPS while you run to the target.

    Also, you're making an unfair argument between Frost and Unholy. There is plenty of variety in Unholy, the fact of the matter is that since it's the flavor of the month spec and, as you said, "EVERY one" is playing it, there are a lot of min-maxers who are going to run the optimized talent setup. If someone was so inclined as to swap their talents around on Unholy I'm sure they would still be reasonably competitive. On the other hand, and this is what you don't mention, there DOES exist an optimal talent setup for Frost even if testing and theory-crafting has not identified it yet. Blizzard will never be able to perfectly balance talent builds against each other as there are too many permutations of choice and synergies between certain combinations. You are likely enjoying this "freedom of choice" with Frost because it isn't flavor of the month and doesn't have as rabid a following.

  8. #48
    I mean, if you want to play any pvp you'll have to go DK. DH's are shit, a pure pve class atm.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cormyr07 View Post
    I don't know where some of you got this DH > DK mentality from. Sure, DH might have better mobility but from the logs I've seen DK seems to pull off higher DPS in almost all fights.
    Cause just like TRUMP, they are repeating what they heard and didn't do ANY research. Plus for years UH was the spec to use.

    That has changed and they don't want to accept or try it. Just did a mythic with a UH guy. We were neck and neck on every boss except wrath if azshura where his army did a shit ton and he beat me by 2 million damage. Roughly same ilevel weapon and gear. Great real life test. I was running BoS for the first time and got stunned a bit on hatecoil so it fell off in that fight fast
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  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Reiziger View Post
    I mean, if you want to play any pvp you'll have to go DK. DH's are shit, a pure pve class atm.
    lmao, you are so pitifully clueless it hurts. Probably butthurt your lv100 2 talent rows incomplete DH is dying in BG's.



    Meanwhile here's a multi-gladiator title PvP player, with Bahjeera also playing (as arms warrior, often doing half Cartoonz damage) and his demonhunter often did the damage in arenas of the two opposing DPS classes combined.

  11. #51
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    sigh.... the majority might be right... I might have to stop defending frost tooth and nail as of today... FML

    I play 3-4 styles of Frost. i love the variety and different paths. Damage is good in mythics and heroics at ilevel 833 with a legendary on, usually the bracers. I just got Sindragosa last night and need 14k to next trait. I took 2k AP and feed Apocalypse to get the first gold dragon- Scourge of the Worlds and used a epic Normal fire relic and a 835 shadow relic. hit a 112 target dummy for 3 minutes with a sloppy unfamiliar play.... and saw 26-33k increase... without gargoyle and using the legendary bracers.

    i will make a video when I get home and post showing my gear, talents, etc. kinda in disbelief a weapon I gave 2k AP in was doing more ST damage then weapons I been attatched to since level 100... FML

    the frost specs-
    1-Talons, Freezing Fog, Icecap, Runic Atune, and GA- mostly OB spam and HB on rime. Shorten pillars CD then unload all frost damage (RW, FS, HB, SIndragosa, GA)
    2- Shattering Strikes, same as above- same shit but FS crits for almost 400k and my panties get moist. I prefer speed though with IT
    3- Talons, Frozen Pulse, Avalanche, Scythe, GA- lower my haste as that works better with Pulse which ends up being 3-4 of my damage. Even though Scythe is 1 rune I tend to have a lot of down time and Pulse just amps up. OB is still used to get a Rime for dots.
    4- Murder, Fog, Icecap, Attune, BoS- keep it rolling and avoid Frost Strike at all costs. shattering can be subbed in with high haste like 19%ish
    5- (Legend Helm spec) Talons, Fog, Icecap, Attune, GA- good AoE with GA and HB while RW is rolling. I prefer the bracers though but isnt this what Beta is for? testing shit out
    I get to 170k will pillars and opener then sit around 160k +/-

    UH i tried for 4 minutes at 110
    Sores, PP, Castigator (crit is 28%), Belcher, DT, Soul Reaper. Haste is 19% but have not tried Arbiter yet. Used the bracers. SR cause I am a fan of speed hit and Apocalypse can get to 2.3 attack speed which is fucking sweet for a 2H. Did 8 wounds then popped Apoc and a sloppy DT, DC spam, stack wounds and burst them. no gargoyle. sat at a STEADY 186-190k....

    so now the plan Sunday is to run some dungeons as UH even with 5 traits and see whats up. Change some talents around and get real world real player xp since no sims are out and sims are tools anyways, not solid law.

    its beta and I change talents pretty much after every random dungeon and just started mythic 0 yesterday. ill see if stupid AMD Raptor works and I can make a fast youtube video showing gear, talents, and what not then hit a dummy for a few minutes. the few different ways I play frost and the one way everyone does UH minus Epidemic. Again, I leveled as Frost and pumped all AP into that spec and have not touched UH since the night before pre patch. Same name as my sig on the beta if you wanna talk in game or point and laugh and do a /spit, i like the attention

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  12. #52
    I think they are same for ST but for AoE prob DH wins. Fury of the Illidari + Eye beam and Fel Barrage is really big deal and Fel Barrage cd resets faster when you are cleave.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Dantery View Post
    I think they are same for ST but for AoE prob DH wins. Fury of the Illidari + Eye beam and Fel Barrage is really big deal and Fel Barrage cd resets faster when you are cleave.
    Same for Epidemic, Timmy cleave, DD+SS spam. Don't underestimate Plague Eruption and bursting Sore either.

  14. #54
    For tanking blood is better overall.

    However, after tanking with a DH tonight...my lack of mobility was quite frankly embarrassing.

    I hate being so limited in movement, but I guess them's the breaks.

  15. #55
    DPS DH and DK play completely differently.

    Havoc DH is a very mobile and frantic class with proper cooldown/ability timing and resource management as the differentiators. Unholy DK, meanwhile, is mostly about proper rotation and spell selection, maintaining DoTs and Wound debuffs.

    I mained an Unholy DK through 13/13M in Warlords, but I'm going to be playing Havoc DH in Legion. I personally want a change of pace and the removal of DK mobility was the last straw. I'm going for something that can move faster than a crawl.

  16. #56
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    Some good feedback so far. I think you summed it up pretty well, @SilenceDK. I'm actually still very much enjoying my DK, but the DH feels very refreshing. I'm just unsure on how they perform at 110.

  17. #57
    Spent a lot of time playing all three specs on beta and live, dummies and dungeons, and I'm going with frost. Now, I know it's the weakest of the three, but it's unlikely to be that way all throughout legion. I love the changes to Frost and enjoy playing it significantly more, so that's what I'm going with.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    lmao, you are so pitifully clueless it hurts. Probably butthurt your lv100 2 talent rows incomplete DH is dying in BG's.



    Meanwhile here's a multi-gladiator title PvP player, with Bahjeera also playing (as arms warrior, often doing half Cartoonz damage) and his demonhunter often did the damage in arenas of the two opposing DPS classes combined.
    Lolwut, I don't even really play DH. You couldn't be further from the truth , but nice try taking me down with a personal insult instead of actually coming with solid arguments. Also, yea DH's do a lot of damage. However, as soon as blizz nerfs pvp templates around the block to reduce burst (which they have said they want to lower, they weren't happy with people dying so fast), this straight up train cleave is going to be less effective.

    They are also easily trained though, probably the squishiest melee class there is. All a team needs to do is focus the DH and he's pretty much fucked. Now maybe I'm wrong, and their mobility counters the fact that they have little cc, no self-healing and only one mediocre defensive cd (darkness is so RNG you can't count on it). Only time will tell.

    What does not prove anything to me however, is the video you posted. No shit actual pvp'ers are recking people on the beta servers. the amount of actual high ranked pvp'ers who are actively playing on beta is minimal, meaning that most of the footage you just showed me is gladiators/ rank1 glads shitting on people who probably have a live rating of ~1200. He could do the same with any other class.

    EDIT: actually, looking at the honor talents has changed my pov slightly. honor talents for the classes im personally currently maining suck major dick, but the DH pvp talents seem to fix alot of their weaknesses. CC, more defensives, the reflect thingy which is nuts when timed right. I still doubt they are gonna be 3-shotting people on live, but their kit isn't as weak as I thought.
    Last edited by Reiziger; 2016-08-22 at 09:43 AM.

  19. #59
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Cormyr07 View Post
    I don't know where some of you got this DH > DK mentality from. Sure, DH might have better mobility but from the logs I've seen DK seems to pull off higher DPS in almost all fights.
    A single hotfix may trash your DPS, mobility/utility is rather persistent.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Piz813 View Post
    sigh.... the majority might be right... I might have to stop defending frost tooth and nail as of today... FML

    I play 3-4 styles of Frost. i love the variety and different paths. Damage is good in mythics and heroics at ilevel 833 with a legendary on, usually the bracers. I just got Sindragosa last night and need 14k to next trait. I took 2k AP and feed Apocalypse to get the first gold dragon- Scourge of the Worlds and used a epic Normal fire relic and a 835 shadow relic. hit a 112 target dummy for 3 minutes with a sloppy unfamiliar play.... and saw 26-33k increase... without gargoyle and using the legendary bracers.

    i will make a video when I get home and post showing my gear, talents, etc. kinda in disbelief a weapon I gave 2k AP in was doing more ST damage then weapons I been attatched to since level 100... FML

    the frost specs-
    1-Talons, Freezing Fog, Icecap, Runic Atune, and GA- mostly OB spam and HB on rime. Shorten pillars CD then unload all frost damage (RW, FS, HB, SIndragosa, GA)
    2- Shattering Strikes, same as above- same shit but FS crits for almost 400k and my panties get moist. I prefer speed though with IT
    3- Talons, Frozen Pulse, Avalanche, Scythe, GA- lower my haste as that works better with Pulse which ends up being 3-4 of my damage. Even though Scythe is 1 rune I tend to have a lot of down time and Pulse just amps up. OB is still used to get a Rime for dots.
    4- Murder, Fog, Icecap, Attune, BoS- keep it rolling and avoid Frost Strike at all costs. shattering can be subbed in with high haste like 19%ish
    5- (Legend Helm spec) Talons, Fog, Icecap, Attune, GA- good AoE with GA and HB while RW is rolling. I prefer the bracers though but isnt this what Beta is for? testing shit out
    I get to 170k will pillars and opener then sit around 160k +/-

    UH i tried for 4 minutes at 110
    Sores, PP, Castigator (crit is 28%), Belcher, DT, Soul Reaper. Haste is 19% but have not tried Arbiter yet. Used the bracers. SR cause I am a fan of speed hit and Apocalypse can get to 2.3 attack speed which is fucking sweet for a 2H. Did 8 wounds then popped Apoc and a sloppy DT, DC spam, stack wounds and burst them. no gargoyle. sat at a STEADY 186-190k....

    so now the plan Sunday is to run some dungeons as UH even with 5 traits and see whats up. Change some talents around and get real world real player xp since no sims are out and sims are tools anyways, not solid law.

    its beta and I change talents pretty much after every random dungeon and just started mythic 0 yesterday. ill see if stupid AMD Raptor works and I can make a fast youtube video showing gear, talents, and what not then hit a dummy for a few minutes. the few different ways I play frost and the one way everyone does UH minus Epidemic. Again, I leveled as Frost and pumped all AP into that spec and have not touched UH since the night before pre patch. Same name as my sig on the beta if you wanna talk in game or point and laugh and do a /spit, i like the attention

    Purchasecats Beta realm 1
    Wait so when you tested frost you pulled an avg of 160k dps while when you pulled as unholy you were doing 186k-190k steady dps without all cds like gargoyle? Damn so unholy is better than frost atm. I know you are an huge advocate for frost and even though I don't play frost anymore I appreciate it. It's not fair for frost players to get stuck playing a spec they hate just because frost is inferior to unholy. Both specs should be around the same power level. Instead of this bs "unholy vs frost beef" we should be uniting as one to help push for equality and balance between specs as well as pushing to make dks more on par with other Melee dps who do the same amount of dmg but have way better mobility.

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