[Guardian] 7.2.5 Legion Guardian Guide by Pumps

[Nvrmd]

How good exactly is the trinket writhing heart of darkness for guardian, I just got it the 2nd time with itemlvl 905 and with 3 stacks it gives 7% dmg reduce which seems quite a lot and with my 36% crit the uptime should be high as well. Atm I am running an 870 arcanocrystal at all times and have a few options for 2nd trinket which includes the heart I mentioned, an 895 infernal contract, a 905 talisman of cragshaper and possibly the darkmoon card.

[davidrm15]

Waht trinket is good for dps Draught of souls 925 vs horn of valor 885??? and why ¿

[Vanson]

PvP changes:



sad

Feelsgoodman.

Seriously, tanks in PVP, especially world PVP is stupid and not fun to play against and takes negative skill to play. Guardian druids just run at you and slam their trash key until you are dead, and that's it, and it did absurd damage, yeah it needed to be nerfed.

[foibooze]

Feelsgoodman.

Seriously, tanks in PVP, especially world PVP is stupid and not fun to play against and takes negative skill to play. Guardian druids just run at you and slam their trash key until you are dead, and that's it, and it did absurd damage, yeah it needed to be nerfed.

Can agree, but why don't you stay at your own forum whichever that is...

[Rioo]

How good exactly is the trinket writhing heart of darkness for guardian, I just got it the 2nd time with itemlvl 905 and with 3 stacks it gives 7% dmg reduce which seems quite a lot and with my 36% crit the uptime should be high as well. Atm I am running an 870 arcanocrystal at all times and have a few options for 2nd trinket which includes the heart I mentioned, an 895 infernal contract, a 905 talisman of cragshaper and possibly the darkmoon card.

It's an incredible defensive trinket, perhaps the best. I'd use it over all the other ones you mentioned if I ran with defensive trinkets.

[Daan]

PvP changes:



sad

Have the developers ever fought against Prot Pala or Blood DK?

[Deleted]

Waht trinket is good for dps Draught of souls 925 vs horn of valor 885??? and why ¿

Draught (like all NH DPS trinkets) is severely nerfed for tanks, that said it is still quite strong and you can line it up with rage of the sleeper to obtain decent results. At 925 it should be well worth it. Horn is not that awesome, because you need to delay rage for 30 seconds or use them separately. The passive stats on both trinkets are useful but the haste on Draught is probably stronger dps wise.

[Soulwell]

It's an incredible defensive trinket, perhaps the best. I'd use it over all the other ones you mentioned if I ran with defensive trinkets.

Best is still dmc spare fights like star.

[Deleted]

http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/151636-soul-of-the-archdruid

This seems pretty good, no secondary stats though.

[roi]

Draught can only really be used with every second RotS (not worth it during incarnation, pretty sure)...it's really bad sadly. I have a 905 draught, but I don't see it being better than a shitty 890 memento.

About that legendary ring, I'm sure it'll get some stats, but if it stays with soul of the forest, well yeah...

[Deleted]

Soul of the forest ring with incarn could be really good for burst single target or 2/3 target cleave. Only thing is that you will probably just overcap on rage with nothing to spend it on really, since Maul will be on the gcd.

[Daan]

Soul of the forest ring with incarn could be really good for burst single target or 2/3 target cleave.

I would still prefer Thrash spam during Incarnation because of the Pawsitive trait, but the ring could be a nice dps push in ST.

[Deleted]

With 7/7 Thrash traits and 4/4 Mangle traits and Luffa Thrash does 342.884 Bleed damage, while Mangle with SotF does 414742.4 to 460812.2 physical damage. Mangle gets 20% more damage on bleeding targets, while Pawsitive increases the average damage of Thrash by 1.15 +0.15*1.15+0.15^2*1.15 + ... = 1.1765. So in total we get

Mangle on average: 525,332.76 physical
Thrash on average: 403.392.94 bleed

What I forgot for my initial comment is, that Thrash being bleed means it isn't reduced by armor. No idea what the reduction is in that case, but I would assume that it is more than the 20% needed to boost Thrash over mangle. Thus this isn't worth it if you have Luffa at your disposal. Kinda happy about it, because that means I don't have to care about the ring.

[roi]

"Physical damage" damage reduction against legion bosses is 32% iirc.

[mmouser]

With 7/7 Thrash traits and 4/4 Mangle traits and Luffa Thrash does 342.884 Bleed damage, while Mangle with SotF does 414742.4 to 460812.2 physical damage. Mangle gets 20% more damage on bleeding targets, while Pawsitive increases the average damage of Thrash by 1.15 +0.15*1.15+0.15^2*1.15 + ... = 1.1765. So in total we get

Mangle on average: 525,332.76 physical
Thrash on average: 403.392.94 bleed

What I forgot for my initial comment is, that Thrash being bleed means it isn't reduced by armor. No idea what the reduction is in that case, but I would assume that it is more than the 20% needed to boost Thrash over mangle. Thus this isn't worth it if you have Luffa at your disposal. Kinda happy about it, because that means I don't have to care about the ring.

What about Luffa + ring? Surely the ring is a higher DPS increase than Elize's. And since we would cap rage with incarnation, swap to GG and turn bear into a proc spec where we just hit the button that is lit.

[Deleted]

That is a big playstyle change so it has to be simmed, basically. I would assume that it turns out to do less damage overall, even though it might be fun to play.

[mmouser]

That is a big playstyle change so it has to be simmed, basically. I would assume that it turns out to do less damage overall, even though it might be fun to play.

All I can do is estimates until we have the ring on the PTR. So here are my estimates. Please demolish it:

Full Thrash relics, with a thrash priority rotation using Incarnation. Elize's + Luffa
#1 http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simula...e92163d8bb622b
Full Thrash relics, with a thrash priority rotation using Incarnation. Luffa only
#2 http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simula...10d5754408e768

So from there we can determine that the Elize's DPS boost must be around 50kdps.

Full Thrash relics, with a thrash priority rotation using Soul of the Forest. Luffa only
#3 http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simula...caa32952964f2d
As you can see Soul of the forest makes ever mange hit for 472k on average.

Since in sim #2, we had 50.5 hits of mangle for an average of 372899. We will even ignore the extra mauls that SotF gives.

Now I cant just throw the new mangle value in so I added it all up and got a total of 131,781,784.5
over 302s for sim #2. Fairly close to the value of 437k dps. Now we add in the new mangle average of 472k to the math and you have an additional 5,042,071.5 for an extra 16695k dps

So even in Single target, it does less damage than Elize's assuming nothing else changes. Maybe with the 2 piece from NH + Maul gore procs, it might come close but for now it isnt something that is getting me wet.

----edit additional thoughts----
It also doesnt include any stats that the rings will give.

[Deleted]

Thing is, you made both sims with Incarn and that buffs anything to do with Thrash so far up, that nothing else can even come close.

The only way the ring could be viable is a build that uses ring and GG not Incarn. Furthermore you would run Pulv instead of R&T when switching out Elizes. The value of such a build depends strongly on the tuning of maul and it will fall behind as soon as there is anything other than the boss to hit.

[Seditian]

Thing is, you made both sims with Incarn and that buffs anything to do with Thrash so far up, that nothing else can even come close.

The only way the ring could be viable is a build that uses ring and GG not Incarn. Furthermore you would run Pulv instead of R&T when switching out Elizes. The value of such a build depends strongly on the tuning of maul and it will fall behind as soon as there is anything other than the boss to hit.

Although I'm not sure what build they use for Guardian, Mangle's damage per execution time is pretty horrible compared with Thrash:

https://www.raidbots.com/reports/B1NrcEXe-/index.html

E: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/B1NrcEXe-

Edit2: With SotF: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ryWSjVQxW

Edit3: Not sure why it's only showing up with 339k damage on Mangle per execution time. I hit for 372k with Mangle if there's a bleed on it, in-game.

[Deleted]

The sim is running R&T and Incarn. Incarn just pushes the number of Thrashes so high, that no build other than double thrash leggies should be viable. This is probably the strongest build for ST and AoE damage we currently have, maybe for ST you can swap out R&T for Pulverize, but if you have Elizes I don't think it is worth it.

Are you really running those trinkets or is that just for demonstration purposes?