[Guardian] 7.2.5 Legion Guardian Guide by Pumps

[oAllElseFailo]

RotS reflect and lunar beam too. But yea, sounds a bit underwhelming. I'm guessing it might affect wrath and sunfire too, making balance weave maybe viable?

It wouldn't though because it says you only get that 30% bonus while in bear form. Unless you mean the sunfire dot but idk if that applies since it was casted in balance.

[roi]

Well yeah, if you go for incarnation obviously you'll have much higher thrash damage

LatC really shines in cleave fights with high hp targets (like higher levels m+), so you get free passive moonfires everywhere. I don't think it's actually better than elizes + incarn, but more fun for me at least.

[Soulwell]

Your damage profile is VERY VERY interesting compared to mine
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=10


I pull 410k just like you but with thrash doing 50% of my damage. I also didnt have concordance on that pull. That is interesting that LatC can compete with Elize if going GG. The thing I need to test this weekend is Luffa + ring. Luffa + back. I really want to stay an AoE bear.

If the adds stay alive for more than 15 seconds give or take procs of thrash it certainly cannot compete.

[roi]

Beat? Probably not. Compete? Definitely.

It's not exactly like moonfire is very bursty...

This guy (with LatC and Luffa, 48 traits) for example is #11 on mythic botanist, 90% boss damage (so definitely not padding, also warcraftlogs removes all damage dealt to bosses that heal to full, meaning even at the start your damage only counts to the boss you end up killing first), it's maybe not the "best" style, but certainly viable. Also not bad defensively, look at the rage tab and his moonfire casts, he got 408 free rage from LatC (the second passive moonfire already gives you rage).

In a DHT +15 I got 1280 extra rage from it! Haven't worn the Elizes in my bags since I got LatC, I really want to believe in the arcane dream

[Soulwell]

Beat? Probably not. Compete? Definitely.

It's not exactly like moonfire is very bursty...

This guy (with LatC and Luffa, 48 traits) for example is #11 on mythic botanist, 90% boss damage (so definitely not padding, also warcraftlogs removes all damage dealt to bosses that heal to full, meaning even at the start your damage only counts to the boss you end up killing first), it's maybe not the "best" style, but certainly viable. Also not bad defensively, look at the rage tab and his moonfire casts, he got 408 free rage from LatC (the second passive moonfire already gives you rage).

In a DHT +15 I got 1280 extra rage from it! Haven't worn the Elizes in my bags since I got LatC, I really want to believe in the arcane dream

Botanist is probably the worst fight to build an argument around with all of the movement and add cleave. Same with rage gen, gg is going to give you more rage than incarn by a mile unless you're running blood frenzy but even then its probably still going to be a net win for gg. But we were talking about straight damage output and if you can get 2-3 incarns in on a fight with cleave/adds it simply outperforms shoulders/gg.
For M+ incarn is miles better when there are affixes you can mass pull. Ontop of using incarn to cheese certain things on bursting or completely avoiding certain mob mechanics because they die lol.

[roi]

And then you go around the corner where there are 5 of the exact same type of mobs again and you have no damage cooldown for 150 seconds >;

I mean, both works, just requires different strategies, incarnation is more like high risk high reward (if you pull as much as possible and hope for the best), while GG is...I don't know, slightly slower but much safer? Heavily depends on group setup and affixes and keystone level I guess.

[Deleted]

Even if you pull the same way you do with GG, Incarn will do more damage. You just have to apply moonfire manually in packs when you can't Thrash, if there are less than 10 mobs that live long enough. Also in most dungeons there are specific large pulls especially in the beginning that can just be smoothed out by running incarn.

[mmouser]

Even if you pull the same way you do with GG, Incarn will do more damage. You just have to apply moonfire manually in packs when you can't Thrash, if there are less than 10 mobs that live long enough. Also in most dungeons there are specific large pulls especially in the beginning that can just be smoothed out by running incarn.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...mmary&source=6
Fight 9-11 with the back + wrists & GG

Rest without GG. Some with back, some with legs.

Basically the back does about the same damage as the legs. Legs have damage reduction while back has periodic healing. This was single target. For AoE, Legs win.

[Williee]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...mmary&source=6
Fight 9-11 with the back + wrists & GG

Rest without GG. Some with back, some with legs.

Basically the back does about the same damage as the legs. Legs have damage reduction while back has periodic healing. This was single target. For AoE, Legs win.

Have you tried out LatC + back in aoe? It might not beat out luffas + incarn but it might be a fun thing to mess around with

[Stuffed]

Question, did you have a chance to try Lunar Beam with Cape? Reason being from the logs RnT was used, which naturally plays to Elize's strength. Lunar Beam will play to the Cape's strength. If you have time try to check that build out.

[mmouser]

Sorry I didnt try any of those combinations. Luckily the PTR has a legendary vendor in dalaran. If I get a chance to go back to the PTR, I'll try that stuff on lfr.

[Ridcully]

Isn't every trait purchased supposed to increase our damage and health? I just purchased one (from 53 to 54) and my damage did not increase at all and my health increased by 0,1% (+5010 health elf form, +8185 bear form).

[Dreyen]

I believe once you get concordance, the benefits from getting a new trait gets significantly weaker so that you dont scale into infinity.

[Nevcairiel]

Indeed, they did say that points beyond 51 have reduced impact on the flat health/damage modifiers, to put it inline with the scaling of DPSers with more concordance ranks (which isn't very strong beyond the first point, and we do get some DPS from the concordance rank itself)

[Unbelivabru]

And then you go around the corner where there are 5 of the exact same type of mobs again and you have no damage cooldown for 150 seconds >;

I mean, both works, just requires different strategies, incarnation is more like high risk high reward (if you pull as much as possible and hope for the best), while GG is...I don't know, slightly slower but much safer? Heavily depends on group setup and affixes and keystone level I guess.

What I like about Incarnation is that you can either "think ahead" and combo Incar + RoTS and completely obliterate some massive pulls; in these cases you'll, most likely, pull way more dps than the other dudes in your group or, in some cases, it can be used as a ohshit! button and save your group from wiping.
If you are at 900+ ilvl right now you can, for example, pull everything but the 1st boss in MoS in necrotic week and pretty much not rely on your party members to do anything - actually, as long as they do some minimal damage/heal (considering what a 900+ ilvl should do) you'll be able to kill it in any non-fortified ~ <12 situation before necrotic starts being a problem. If we are talking about pushing higher keys like say 16+ eveything takes so damn long to kill you'll probably have it once every 2 or 3 pulls (of course, depending on your group's dps, that 16+ would be a 18+ or 20+, you got the idea).

You're right in saying it is a high risk high reward while GG is more of a safer option, but I can't imagine a situation where I'd prefer GG to Incarnation, considering thrashthrash, thrash relics and legendary wrist.

[v1perz53]

It doesn't seem like extra concordance adds damage at all (aside from the damage from more Vers, obviously). From some testing with moonfire, I was doing 40,011 damage at 52 points and 40,011 damage at 53 points. Going up 1 point in damage would've been a 0.0025% damage increase so I think its safe to assume damage doesn't increase at all with extra concordance points (and if it does, it is by such a small percentage so as to functionally not increase). Health still does increase, but as said before, by smaller amounts. Fine with me, that way I can get the other 3 specs to concordance instead of pushing concordance on tank because of constant +dmg/HP gains.

[Deleted]

Hey guys,

do you think guardian druids will be able to compete with the other tanks for mythic progression raiding in ToS? And: any idea of some kind of tank-ranking for ToS?

thanks in advance

[Deleted]

So far, guardians seem to be fine. The changes we have seen so far should not change the viability of the spec in any major way.

[Soulwell]

So far, guardians seem to be fine. The changes we have seen so far should not change the viability of the spec in any major way.

It certainly changed the viability, they removed an entire abiltiy.
It's looking like blood dk / monk are going to be the go to.

[Nevcairiel]

It certainly changed the viability, they removed an entire abiltiy.

Tomb is far more physical focused then Nighthold was, so no, the impact from that is negligible.