[Guardian] 7.2.5 Legion Guardian Guide by Pumps

[Arlee]

Yeah they did. it's apparently still available on the stats page but cannot see individual rankings anymore.

Ah, ok. Sort of sad I thought it was interesting but oh well

[Nevcairiel]

It was one of the earliest hotfixes in 7.1 and one of my biggest pet peeves right now. On a 5 mill health pool, I'm only 400k ahead of my DK co-tank. The second he gets his 5% stamina he'll actually jump ahead of me until I get higher gear in Nighthold.

Health is where mana goes to die. Armor is much more useful.

[GT4]

Health is where mana goes to die. Armor is much more useful.

Higher health pool allows healers to heal more mana efficient, more efficient usage of frenzied regeneration and lets you use cooldowns more conservatively which can save the kill later down the fight.

Why? Armor is less EHP per percentage than health and it doesn't work against most burst abilities anyway.

[Kujako]

Health is where mana goes to die. Armor is much more useful.

Armor against magic is like acid vs googles...

[Dreyen]

Been using goblet + chronoshard yesterday.. goblet has a pretty good uptime, definitely looks like a decent dps trinket for plebs without the good stuff like me. Here's my uptime, tanking cenarius fulltime:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...8&end=12917828

[Kalz]

Figured I'd ask in here rather then new thread, but need some advice on trinkets, currently I have

835 Alch (would upgrade to 855)
860+socket Inescapable Dread
865 Icor
870 Echo


From what I've seen all of them aren't great but be nice to get some more experienced input on it, been pretty unlucky with good trinket drops and don't want to be gimping myself for when guild is ready to move into mythics

[Eiki]

Would it be worth it to replace a 845 WQ Agility / versatility trinket for the alchemy one?

[roi]

Another RotS bug: It reflects damage to discipline priests who heal, or well, damage you afterwards with Shadow Mend. Happens extremely rarely luckily.

[Sonnillon]

Am I really dumb that I would like my 2 trinkets over everything else what could drop for me?
Unbrideled Fury (870) and Phantasmal Echo (850). Just wondering cause managed to get my claws on 865 Grotesque Statuette and feel that my present trinkets feel superior to me, even when those have not so good stats on them.

[Deleted]

Phantasmal Echo is pretty bad. The absorb of a Heroic Phantasmal Echo is worse than the one from an 840 Cragshaper Talisman and the stats are not that great. Unbridled Fury is in almost all situations worse than a Darkmoon Deck: Immortality. Grotesque Statuette is great if and only if you only take damage from one target, because otherwise the stacks are distributed among all things doing damage to you, thus reducing the effectiveness.

[Sonnillon]

And why is Fury so crap? What's wrong with extra HP and armor?

And by the looks of it I will be sticking to my sub-par trinkets. EN holds nothing interesting on the trinket side, too cheap to buy DMF deck and not keen/don't have time to do higher level M+ dungeons.

[Deleted]

Nothing wrong with the active overall, I just feel it is severely underbudgeted. Compare it to the timewalking trinket from last week Gnomeregan Auto Blocker. The mythic version gives less bonus armor than the gnomeregan on ilvl 805. If you value the health it might be good, but in general I don't think more health is too useful to a bear since we have so much of it already. I would recommend you to use the Statuette, whenever applicable and farm Neltharions Lair on low mythics to get either this or this.

If you want to look at it from another perspective: The Darkmoon deck gives you at least 608 armor permanently, while the unbridled Fury gives you 1090 with maximally 25% uptime. If you tank half the time and can use it on CD, it is still only 545 armor on average and the Darkmoon trinket will usually give way more armor on average. Again I didn't factor in the health and maybe that should be done in some way, but it can't be more than a 500k heal on a 2 minute CD, which just isn't an aweful lot.

The raid trinkets, especially for tanks, aren't that great. I use the il'gynoth trinket and either the statuette, the darkmoon trinket or some dps trinket, depending on the fight.

Edit: @Kujako: And where exactly are you taking all these tons of magic damage that you need tons of HP for? Even if that is a consideration, I would then argue for more versatility and mastery to deal with that and not more Health. @GT4: Most burst like what? Cenarius Spear is physical, Ursoc stuff is physical. Nythendra volatile is magic, but you don't have the boss when it hits and it really shouldn't one shot you, so who cares. The Horror add on Il'gynoth is an argument maybe, but the fight still has the Fury casting tentacles, which are physical again and usually much worse.

[Sonnillon]

I would recommend you to use the Statuette, whenever applicable and farm Neltharions Lair on low mythics to get either this or this.

Statuette for ST fights then w/o any adds? Seems feasible to replace the Echo with I guess. But as for the 2 trinkets from mythic dungeons - don't think that that'll happen (bad RNG with PL, not enough time to do more then 1 per week etc). Hopefully Nighthold brings more variety to trinkets.

[Seditian]

Statuette for ST fights then w/o any adds? Seems feasible to replace the Echo with I guess. But as for the 2 trinkets from mythic dungeons - don't think that that'll happen (bad RNG with PL, not enough time to do more then 1 per week etc). Hopefully Nighthold brings more variety to trinkets.

Wouldn't hold your breath, they're terrible, every single one of them. So unless they change it, DMF will still be best in most cases.

[Deleted]

Statuette is good on Nythendra, Ursoc, Elerethe, Cenarius (tanking the boss). The adds on Elerethe don't live long enough to reduce the trinkets value and you shouldn't have both at once anyway (let's just hope that you can't debuff your cotank through web of pain in this patch). Ursoc Mythic, you loose some value when you are the one with the add on you, but since you are tanking with a paladin (or has that changed?) this shouldn't happen (if you are doing mythic, which I don't know).

For the 3 remaining bosses:
Dragons: Too many things doing damage, especially if the dot can make you apply the debuff to the opposite dragon (which I am not sure of, but would assume can happen).
Il'gynoth: Might actually be decent. Will test that on monday.
Xavius: Probably not worth it. Too many sources doing damage.

Maybe some of the Kara trinkets might be good as well. Don't know if you plan on doing that.

[Sonnillon]

(let's just hope that you can't debuff your cotank through web of pain in this patch)..

Killed him twice in one single heroic Spiderbird fight with that shit this week. Have killed him like that before the patch as well, so nothing new there.

Am tanking with a paladin, however as I lead and tank for cross-realm group of friends, mythic ain't gonna happen yet ^^.

Karazan will hugely depend on my free time, but I haven't checked the loot list. Trials of Valor as well might hold something. It kinda sucks that Nighthold gets delayed until new year, cause that seem to have better loot imho.

[Deleted]

Trial of Valor didn't have any trinkets other than stat sticks last time I checked. And well.... those kinda suck for us, at least defensively.

[GT4]

@GT4: Most burst like what? Cenarius Spear is physical, Ursoc stuff is physical. Nythendra volatile is magic, but you don't have the boss when it hits and it really shouldn't one shot you, so who cares. The Horror add on Il'gynoth is an argument maybe, but the fight still has the Fury casting tentacles, which are physical again and usually much worse.

Not everything that's physical damage is actually affected by armor though. E.g. I'm fairly sure rend flesh counts entirely as bleed damage (including the initial hit) and subsequently cannot be reduced by armor. Aside from that, I was mostly looking at things in general and not necessarily EN which is pretty undertuned anyway. E.g. Nighthold (when you'll actually have some points in the armor trait) has mainly hard hitting magic damage abilities on the tanks with the biggest one being the 10m fire damage strike of gul'dan.

I don't agree with Il'gynoth either. The dominator tentacles are honestly a joke if you manage your ironfur and frenzied regeneration properly (tanked one without heal or major CDs for like 30 seconds in one of our wipes) whereas being able to save some CDs and tank an additional stack on nightmare horror can make a huge difference if people are dying in P2.

- - - Updated - - -

Statuette is good on Nythendra, Ursoc, Elerethe, Cenarius (tanking the boss). The adds on Elerethe don't live long enough to reduce the trinkets value and you shouldn't have both at once anyway (let's just hope that you can't debuff your cotank through web of pain in this patch). Ursoc Mythic, you loose some value when you are the one with the add on you, but since you are tanking with a paladin (or has that changed?) this shouldn't happen (if you are doing mythic, which I don't know).

For the 3 remaining bosses:
Dragons: Too many things doing damage, especially if the dot can make you apply the debuff to the opposite dragon (which I am not sure of, but would assume can happen).
Il'gynoth: Might actually be decent. Will test that on monday.
Xavius: Probably not worth it. Too many sources doing damage.

Maybe some of the Kara trinkets might be good as well. Don't know if you plan on doing that.

Going by my logs, the trinket is completely fine on Dragons (had ~3 stacks on average on the dragon I currently tanked in mythic). With an average of 2-3 stacks per dragon it was also still decent on Cenarius tanking dragons given our lackluster options.

[CenariusTheForestLord]

Not everything that's physical damage is actually affected by armor though. E.g. I'm fairly sure rend flesh counts entirely as bleed damage (including the initial hit) and subsequently cannot be reduced by armor. Aside from that, I was mostly looking at things in general and not necessarily EN which is pretty undertuned anyway. E.g. Nighthold (when you'll actually have some points in the armor trait) has mainly hard hitting magic damage abilities on the tanks with the biggest one being the 10m fire damage strike of gul'dan.

I don't agree with Il'gynoth either. The dominator tentacles are honestly a joke if you manage your ironfur and frenzied regeneration properly (tanked one without heal or major CDs for like 30 seconds in one of our wipes) whereas being able to save some CDs and tank an additional stack on nightmare horror can make a huge difference if people are dying in P2.

- - - Updated - - -



Going by my logs, the trinket is completely fine on Dragons (had ~3 stacks on average on the dragon I currently tanked in mythic). With an average of 2-3 stacks per dragon it was also still decent on Cenarius tanking dragons given our lackluster options.

It drops in value heavily as soon as there's more than one target though. I use the statstick from withered Jim almost all the time for AOE. Darkmoon in the other slot. I'm not sure about dragons btw as I don't know if the dot is mitigated. I think that gets calculated as environment damage and maybe wo,'t count towards the dragon you're tanking. Someone should look this up, or post confirmation if possible.

[roi]

Raven Eidolon (Shade of Medivhs trinket) returns damage as well when RotS is up. Combined them on purpose every time and well yeah the damage returned is nearly as high as the damage "prevented"/redirected. Stats are rather bad, pretty much a large chunk of stamina. Only really useful when taking insane spell damage I guess.

Seal of Darkshire Nobility (10% damage reduction for the first 4 seconds) works on unlimited targets at the same time as far as I can tell. Versa mastery are amazing, sadly only two chances (with bonus roll) to get it per week, will take a while (or luck) to get it to high ilvl, but then again rings don't have that many stats anyway. Sure it's not much, but right at the pull without ironfur stacks every little bit counts I guess, should be very nice in dungeons. I don't think I can track how much damage it prevented in warcraftlogs right now (can't see damage taken while enemies have the arrogance debuff; I can only see my own damage dealt while enemies have the debuff).

Choker of Barbed Reins is surprisingly very good actually. Dealt nearly twice as much damage than Mark of the Hidden Satyr (enchanted when equipping it; previous neck had heavy hide so rather accurate data) for the rest of Karazhan. Effect can crit. Higher ilvl neck doesn't increase the damage, however it appears to scale with weapon trait damage (0.5% per level, so 17% at most) as well as versatility. Base damage is 15k, more or less impossible to get over 20k with current gear.

Ring and neck drop for all players of all specs, so they're fairly easy to obtain. At Opera Hall: Westfall Story, Attumen, Moroes and Viz'aduum you get all guardian loot + additional items when changing loot spec to feral.

Karazhan is the most fun I've had in Legion so far, visually amazing, fun mechanics and nicely tuned, very much recommended! I really hope we'll get to experience more 5-men raid-dungeons in the future!