[Guardian] 7.2.5 Legion Guardian Guide by Pumps

[Pumpsm8]

Updated some things for 7.2 this week, mainly on the google doc due to almost all the changes being traits. Thanks vorem for the great 7.2 tl;dr as always aswell.

[roi]

If the wowhead artifact calculator is correct, the current AP from a 54 weapon will be enough for 39 traits in 7.2. So likely Fortitude of the Cenarion Circle, 4/4 Jagged Claws, Ursoc's Endurance and Vicious Bites; afterwards work towards Pawsitive Outlook?

With 39 traits at first, compared to 54 traits in 7.1.5 right now we go from:

• +29% armor to +18% armor

It was either that or 70% ironfur, no surprise.

• +40.5% stamina to +39.25% stamina

Whatever, any trait after 40 will give us more stamina than 54 traits did in 7.1.5.

• +27% damage increase to +35.35% damage increase

Fuck yeah.

The very finite "infinite" Concordance of the Legionfall trait looks a bit disappointing, even the very first point doesn't provide a much more remarkable average damage increase than the plain 0.65% passive damage bonus you get from skilling it lol.

I very much like that raids will only drop throughput relics in the future, ToS has all three fire, life and blood thrash relics!

DPS trinkets still look like they have halved proc rates/damage for tanks, except for the Splinters of Agronax from Cathedral of Eternal Night which somehow ended up in tank loot tables apparently.

The few interesting tank trinkets from ToS seem to be Feverish Carapace (agi trinket with armor/damage reflect proc), Leviathan's Hunger (1 mil damage/3 mil heal according to PTR tooltip, let's see hah) and Recompiled Guardian Module (decent synergy with our mastery, just make sure it doesn't try to steal your raid slot).

[Nevcairiel]

If the wowhead artifact calculator is correct, the current AP from a 54 weapon will be enough for 39 traits in 7.2. So likely Fortitude of the Cenarion Circle, 4/4 Jagged Claws, Ursoc's Endurance and Vicious Bites; afterwards work towards Pawsitive Outlook?

Personally, I'll go to Pawsitive Outlook (or "thrashthrash" as some people might refer to it) immediately.

• +40.5% stamina to +39.25% stamina

It may seem like that, but its still a net stamina gain, because the 10% from fortitude is not in the same pool as the 0.5% per trait, so its multiplicative, not additive (or more precisely, 29.25% + 10% = 1.2925 * 1.10 = 1.42175 = 42.175%)

So in short, if you upgrade your weapon, you'll have more life, no matter what. This can be confirmed on the PTR - or well, it could, until they disabled character copy

[Aswadd]

• +27% damage increase to +35.35% damage increase

Fuck yeah.

This damage increase doesn't necessarily mean more burst threat, does it?

[Nevcairiel]

This damage increase doesn't necessarily mean more burst threat, does it?

More damage is more threat, however all tanks get this particular change.
For a bit of burst threat, we do get our Mangle and the initial damage of Thrash buffed.

[roi]

Personally, I'll go to Pawsitive Outlook (or "thrashthrash" as some people might refer to it) immediately.

I'm not 100% sure on the math, but isn't it (except if proccing before having fully stacked rend and tear) just another ~15% thrash damage increase? Better than 4/4 jagged claws, but not even by that much?

And I went for a slightly safer/conservative route as I'm not sure how quickly you can farm the AP for thrashthrash (requires at least 42 traits, 137.75 mil total AP), if it's something that'll take a week or longer (AK 27 or 28 or whatever), I'd definitely skill at least jagged claws first.

Any idea if the two armor traits are in different pools as well? Passive damage and the 10% trait too?

New announcement yesterday:

We're also making a change to how your damage and health increase as you spend points in your Artifact: The damage bonus per point noted above will stop at the 52nd point acquired, and the health bonus will decrease starting with the 53rd point acquired.

52 is when we get the first point in Concordance of the Legionfall.

Hmm so 52 * 0.65 = 33.8% damage increase, plus 10% from the trait which could be either a total of 43.8% or 47.18% damage increase depending on pools. Either way, huge upgrade from 27%!

Stamina at 52 would be 52 * 0.75 = 39% plus the 10% from different pool resulting in 52.9%, up from 40.5% in 7.1.5. Who knows how strong the decline is, might be 0.01% per level, or instant hard drop to 0.5% at 53 traits, we'll see.

I have my char on PTR but couldn't be arsed to do the class campaign yet

[Nevcairiel]

I'm not 100% sure on the math, but isn't it (except if proccing before having fully stacked rend and tear) just another ~15% thrash damage increase? Better than 4/4 jagged claws, but not even by that much?

The big difference is that it scales with Jagged Claws, as when it procs it doubles the damage entirely, while JC itself only adds a percentage of the base damage.

Assume a base damage of 1000, 3/4 Jagged claws gives you 1300 damage and 4/4 1400, a ~7.7% increase (and thats not even counting JC relics, which further devalue it, I have two, so it goes from 1500 to 1600 for me, a ~6.7% increase)

Thrasthrash is always a 15% increase, not to mention that it stacks the debuff faster if it procs early, and can provide a decent threat boost on skittish if it does proc early on.

Ultimately, it only matters for the first few weeks anyway.
Another argument for me is that the traits on the way are pretty decent as well.

In the end, there is no new raid right now and by the time it comes around we'll be at 51+ anyway, so..

Any idea if the two armor traits are in different pools as well? Passive damage and the 10% trait too?

Empirical testing (ie. taking the artifact weapon off) shows these numbers, which match the math perfectly (with a bit of rounding)

Live:
3235 Armor with weapon, 2388 without
35.45% Armor Bonus (5% Iron Claws + 29% Ursoc's Bond, multiplicative)

PTR:
2969 Armor with weapon, 2382 without (I got an upgrade on Live )
24.65% Armor Bonus (5% Iron Claws + 6% Ursoc's Bond + 12% Fortitude, multiplicative)

So yes, its all multiplicative, but still a >10% armor bonus loss.
I would assume that damage works like that as well, since everything else does, but its harder to confirm accurately. Can't just read the damage value from my character sheet like I can health and armor.

[Rioo]

Jagged Claws buffs the dot component of Thrash too right, while "thrashthrash" (love the name) only buffs the direct damage unless you're in the process of building stacks? If we look at Pumps r1 Krosus parse the direct damage makes up like 85% of all his thrash damage, which would mean thrashthrash would buff his thrash damage by 12.75%. Again, counting procs during the build up complicates things but there's about a 50% chance of not seeing that happen, and the extra dot damage will only last for a short time so the impact is minimal.

I'll probably take the JC trait right away, I think mangle too, then start working towards thrashthrash. UE will have to wait since you're still getting some sweet defensive bonuses from the moonfire and extra FR traits.

[roi]

Yeah, could only check damage right before/after skilling the trait.

Thrashthrash will be so amazing for m+, but in longer single target boss fights it's probably closer to 10%, loses ~1/3 of it's value after reaching 5 rend and tear stacks.

Jagged Claws (in the "worst" case, 7/7) would be 6.25%.

On another note, just got fucking luffa as 8th legendary, finally...only half a year late!

If we look at Pumps r1 Krosus parse the direct damage makes up like 85% of all his thrash damage[...]

Eh incarnation logs and add padding might not be the best example. Single target it's closer to a 2:1 direct:dot ratio.

[Soulwell]

Yeah, could only check damage right before/after skilling the trait.

Thrashthrash will be so amazing for m+, but in longer single target boss fights it's probably closer to 10%, loses ~1/3 of it's value after reaching 5 rend and tear stacks.

Jagged Claws (in the "worst" case, 7/7) would be 6.25%.

On another note, just got fucking luffa as 8th legendary, finally...only half a year late!



Eh incarnation logs and add padding might not be the best example. Single target it's closer to a 2:1 direct:dot ratio.

I mean if that's what you're parsing against that's what you should take into consideration.

[roi]

Feasts are back in 7.2 (well, or buffed to viability), Lavish Suramar Feast now give 500 agi in feral spec or 750 stamina in guardian (such tooltip accuracy!).

A small food section might be helpful @Pumps, I guess many people don't know about the 1% versatility darkmoon fishs either. 750 stamina might be better though (for defense), given our multipliers...actually who needs stamina, that's like 150-200k hp, vers probably wins.

[exochaft]

On another note, just got fucking luffa as 8th legendary, finally...only half a year late!

Still waiting on mine, literally 0/9 and the last legendary I can get as Guardian... have I mentioned I really hate running MoS non-stop?

More on topic, trait path probably won't matter too much unless you need to make a choice between survival or DPS output. Even then, it won't matter in a week or two most likely. Just don't pick going 4/4 with Maul crit first and we're good .

[roi]

Missing trinket and boots myself, but those aren't too high on my priority list (boots are probably god-tier for defense with the t20 bonuses though), I think except for relics and trinkets I'll default to balance loot spec and hope for the lady

[Dreyen]

ugh 750 stam as guardian? so this means i have to swap specs every pull now so i can get agi? Feelsbadman

[Deleted]

Hello,

what to skill once I unlocked my Artifact Weapon in 7.2?

Thanks

[CenariusTheForestLord]

Thrash trait to 4/4 and then the new ones.

EDIT: OFC take the 10% trait first, brainfart...

[Hellshout]

What if Bear is offspec and used from time to time in M+? The 10% overall increased damage should be better than thrash 4/4, right?

[Nevcairiel]

What if Bear is offspec and used from time to time in M+? The 10% overall increased damage should be better than thrash 4/4, right?

The 10% trait is what everyone should be getting first, before anything else, on any class or spec.

[Swiftshadow]

Still waiting on mine, literally 0/9 and the last legendary I can get as Guardian... have I mentioned I really hate running MoS non-stop?

More on topic, trait path probably won't matter too much unless you need to make a choice between survival or DPS output. Even then, it won't matter in a week or two most likely. Just don't pick going 4/4 with Maul crit first and we're good .

i tanked through all of normal/heroic NM, ToV up til Heroic NH elesandre with only sephuz secret and the barkskin leg helm. Yes. These were my only 2 legs.

Finished entire broken shores today. 1st box I got was Luffa Wraps lols. Now hoping for chest!

[Hydrant]

Guys, I know thats an offtopic maybe but I'll ask it anyway.

My guildies recently told me that "unluck protection" is now separate for all the specs. Is it true? I have to ask this cos its been a while since my last leg dropped (about 3 weeks maybe 4) and I feel that I have nice chances for getting some orange. Just it would be sad to screw that unluck bonus with some feral leg while running mos for angerboda.

Thanks and sorry for an offtopic.