Legion combine use of MM and BM

[Effinhunter]

To reiterate, I'm not recommending survival, Azor. I'm just not seeing this BM for Mythic+ or you're retarded line of reasoning. As I've said repeatedly, I'm not even sure what we're seeing in the SV sims is real, and it's not like any of us really have a choice to go SV in our raids. If we allowed our hunters to go SV, we'd have to figure out what to do with 10 melee, and that is just an awful thing during progression.

SV has a lot of fun things, and the legendaries (e.g. http://www.wowhead.com/item=137101/call-of-the-wild) seem like it could make the Mythic+ grind fun, but I'm not really recommending it. I can definitely be changed on this line of reasoning for MM throughout Mythic+ dungeons. It just seems like a safer option with what could be essentially a persistent cd (Bullseye) that you can basically keep by coaching your tank to pull the last mob in a pack to the next pack when he's below 20%.

I'm being EXTREMELY conservative in my MM estimates, imo.

[Azortharion]

Survival is fucked in your sims because it gets a perfect Fury of the Eagle opener on 6 targets. Your sim is an attempt to emulate a "typical" Mythic+ dungeon pull based on what you saw in the video. Obviously this makes no sense, because you can't take an average scenario from 1 guild doing 1 dungeon and then build something close to a recommendation or comparison based on what you see. Like my post displays, if you start removing cooldowns (to make it a more typical pull where you don't have Bloodlust, all cooldowns, potion etc), Beast Mastery pulls ahead because its damage is mostly just Beast Cleave, which isn't reliant on any cooldowns to be very good like Fury of the Eagle is. The same goes for Marksmanship, which falls behind when you remove Trueshot. Bullseye is irrelevant here, it's not what's making the difference. I am also going to assume that you used Sidewinders for Marksmanship, is a lot worse than Piercing Shot both in sims, and obviously in practice since Sidewinders is stressful as fuck to get working in M+, and it's not like you're dealing with open spaces where the "AoE everything and single-target something" strength of Marksmanship will apply in any meaningful fashion. Also because the non-SW APL is much weaker than the SimC one because all efforts have been on SW for raiding purposes



Running Beast Mastery with single-target talents is silly for anything except Tyrannical, and the jury is still out on whether that's even worth it for Tyrannical.

Beast Mastery is 2 buttons when AoE'ing, it requires next to nothing of the player skillwise, so that helps it a bit. Definitely so compared to Survival, which is not only melee, but also pretty difficult in its own right, especially if you wanna take full advantage of Fury of the Eagle which M+ demands.



Bullseye is pretty weak without Trueshot now, 30% crit chance isn't all that huge, which again, you won't really have all that often. Being able to maintain some majestic uptime on it by coaching your boss to pull things as you please is a nice fantasy, but obviously you'd need way, way, way, way more than what is realistic for it to beat Beast Mastery on your average pull.

[Effinhunter]

Check the latest 6 target MM talent sims, and let's talk some more about realistic AoE.

[Azortharion]

You first.

[Dossou]

Using Killer Cobra in M+ LUL

[Effinhunter]

Using Killer Cobra in M+ LUL

I can tweak things around if you like. The one I definitely will not show is Stampede though because it hyperinflates BM for any kind of short AoE sim (12s CD on a 3m CD, so it just looks supercharged like crazy).

[Deleted]

If you eliminate long cooldowns (Trueshot, Aspect of the Wild and Aspect of the Eagle), and look at an "average" pull in a Mythic+ dungeon where you're just going through the motions:

Was this with or without Stampede?

[Azortharion]

It was with Stampede, here's without (and some other things changed, like adding trinkets, giving SV a better AoE legendary just because, same for Marksmanship, and also giving all 3 specs the BiS AoE relics)

[Effinhunter]

Stampede in a 60s AoE sim? Or are you doing a different max_time?

[Azortharion]

It was on 60s which was a mistake. I posted the updated thing which does not use Stampede and the result isn't much different because I also added relics which of course heavily favours Beast Mastery. Not unrealistically so, however.