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  1. #441
    is there any consensus on how much item level the nighthold two piece is worth? Replacing it with two 930 offset pieces feels like the right move but it's a lot of mastery

  2. #442
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheze View Post
    is there any consensus on how much item level the nighthold two piece is worth? Replacing it with two 930 offset pieces feels like the right move but it's a lot of mastery
    I'm waiting for 15+ ilvl upgrade on every slot before I switch to T20.
    Leafcast - <Something Pretentious> Proudmoore

  3. #443
    I'm using the tomb 4p right now because I wasn't favored with particular high-ilvl nighthold bits; I'm just trying to decide when it's worthwhile to replace the last two 910 pieces with offset tomb things. I'm struggling to compare the values of intellect and mastery, I spose.

    I see these dudes on WCL with ~925 nighthold four sets and it's like, man. Must be niiiiiice.

  4. #444
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheze View Post
    I'm using the tomb 4p right now because I wasn't favored with particular high-ilvl nighthold bits; I'm just trying to decide when it's worthwhile to replace the last two 910 pieces with offset tomb things. I'm struggling to compare the values of intellect and mastery, I spose.

    I see these dudes on WCL with ~925 nighthold four sets and it's like, man. Must be niiiiiice.
    IF you are comparing 2pc T19 versus2 offset pieces, just take the %healing gain from the 2 set (can be found using the mastery bonus analyzers out there (Sref's for example) and convert that to intellect (1% healing=1% intellect).

    Then you can compare the intellect value of the 2 set bonus, against all the stat gain from using those off set peices instead. (as a reference, last time I checked my T19 2 set bonus was worth for me, around 2000 int. so the higher ilvl offset pieces i have so far are not high enough to beat that :P )

  5. #445
    what's the correct way to play resto now? mostly doing lfr and m+. have 4 legendaries, rejuv shoulders and talent ring being the most interesting ones but not sure how to utilize them. no NH pieces and 4p t20 soon(tm)

  6. #446
    Quote Originally Posted by Silfwerfisq View Post
    what's the correct way to play resto now? mostly doing lfr and m+. have 4 legendaries, rejuv shoulders and talent ring being the most interesting ones but not sure how to utilize them. no NH pieces and 4p t20 soon(tm)
    It depends on your personal playstyle and because of that there is no best way at the moment.

    I recommend my way to play (Whitestrife/Aszhara). I am back after a 3 months break with heroic nighthold gear and i outheal all the t20 healer with there 930 gearscore with my 913 gear.

    The way i play is with t19, leg shoulders, leg neck and all in on Reju as much as possible. Get Reju Relics and use them over any other relic unless its 20gs more. Even then i dont switch. Mathematical speaking thats wrong but it worked for me. Get 2 mana trinkets (darkmoon and Kara). Play extremely on mana intensive with Retri buff, Innervate 10 seconds into the fight and then on cd. Mana potion and Tree of Life. Spam your Rejus, get a 60% or a little more uptime on LB and 40% on Efflo. Both are not so important then Reju. If a lot of dmg comes in ignore LB and Efflo and go with WG and Reju instead. Use Flourish and Ghanir on cd with wg and culti. Use Frenzy to get a lot of free manaregen and hps.

    Heal this way and you get at least 25% more outout then a normal druid.

    99% of the druids would disagree with me. But thats my opinion.

  7. #447
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitestrife View Post

    99% of the druids would disagree with me. But thats my opinion.

    Yeah. Lot of bad in the stuff you wrote.

    Lifebloom is our strongest (bar CW), it's a mastery stack and blooms for a lot.

    Efflo when usable, thanks to the trait, is +20% healing on whoever stands in it.

    Regene trinkets are useless unless few very high m+ bosses on tyrannical; and btw, the only mana trinket is the DMC.

    You outheal only druids that switches the Shoulder+4pcT19 with the new t20 way too early.

  8. #448
    Quote Originally Posted by Purpleisbetter View Post
    Yeah. Lot of bad in the stuff you wrote.

    Lifebloom is our strongest (bar CW), it's a mastery stack and blooms for a lot.

    Efflo when usable, thanks to the trait, is +20% healing on whoever stands in it.

    Regene trinkets are useless unless few very high m+ bosses on tyrannical; and btw, the only mana trinket is the DMC.

    You outheal only druids that switches the Shoulder+4pcT19 with the new t20 way too early.
    Lifebloom super powerful, yeah, that doesnt really hold lifebloom is marginally better than rejuv, its a 3rd mastery stack past germination if there is enough damage (fallen avatar).

    The efflo trait only works towards efflo healing, nothing more. Efflo is strong given the situation, pretty meh on FA p1, misstress, otherwise really good.

    Promises is still solid if you can spend the mana wisely, same goes for kara one (but if the balls affect your gameplay too much its instantly not worth)

    I agree that his statement on outhealing other druids by 20% is absolutely ridiculous.... and based on nothing.

    You also forgot to criticize his legendary choice, which for a rejuv heavy build would favour either helm or velens heavily over prydaz.

  9. #449
    Marginally or not, LB is better then a single Reju, what's the reason to not have it up for 99ish % of the time?

    Btw i had a M+ scenario on mind and i worded poorly the Efflo part.

    His legendary choice is good; he has T19 4pc, shoulders; Velen would be default choice in any scenario, but Prydaz is solid asf. He might not even have Velen's; at that point he made the absolute best choice.

  10. #450
    Quote Originally Posted by Purpleisbetter View Post
    Marginally or not, LB is better then a single Reju, what's the reason to not have it up for 99ish % of the time?

    Btw i had a M+ scenario on mind and i worded poorly the Efflo part.

    His legendary choice is good; he has T19 4pc, shoulders; Velen would be default choice in any scenario, but Prydaz is solid asf. He might not even have Velen's; at that point he made the absolute best choice.
    Well he was outhealing other players, which meant it was a raid scenario though, and well marginally means that it tips in favour of rejuv once deep rooted kicks in, cult procs provides more healing. Also if you want a hot on a target that wont necesarily need the healing right when you cast, shifts it towards rejuv, as LB is both more expensive and lasts for a shorter duration.
    Just to make it clear im not advocating 0 LB usage, but you really dont need a lot more than 60% unless there is heavy tank damage or situations like m+ or Desolate host corp realm.
    Last edited by theburned; 2017-08-07 at 10:54 AM.

  11. #451
    Is there any way to be competitve if you don't have shoulders or the SotA ring?

    I mean, really, I'm running Velen and Prydaz right now and there is just no way to do any kind of healing even close the the top logs.

    Thank you RNG gods for putting those 2 legendaries my last to get.

    Right now I have 4xT20 and 2xT19, 3 pieces of T20 are mythic and 2 of T19 mythic, Velens + Promises, running prosperity doesn't seem to help, running spring blossom doesn't really seem to help, it's like being in a weird gray zone nobody has explored and nobody has an idea how to handle.

    I'm starting to question the spreadsheet is lying to be about mastey and if Promise is worth it if you don't have those 2 legos.

  12. #452
    Quote Originally Posted by Spotnick View Post
    Is there any way to be competitve if you don't have shoulders or the SotA ring?

    I mean, really, I'm running Velen and Prydaz right now and there is just no way to do any kind of healing even close the the top logs.

    Thank you RNG gods for putting those 2 legendaries my last to get.

    Right now I have 4xT20 and 2xT19, 3 pieces of T20 are mythic and 2 of T19 mythic, Velens + Promises, running prosperity doesn't seem to help, running spring blossom doesn't really seem to help, it's like being in a weird gray zone nobody has explored and nobody has an idea how to handle.

    I'm starting to question the spreadsheet is lying to be about mastey and if Promise is worth it if you don't have those 2 legos.
    You can be competitive, might not reach the super top end, but if you dont think so its fairly quick to get the last 2 legendaries, go do portals, all m0s, and raids and you should be able to get 1 in less than a week, you are only missing 2 and velens is by far the most important (and for maiden and FA I believe you can run helm + velens with good results) i run t19 4p + velens/helm for FA and helm + shoulders on maiden (velens would be a good 2nd option, and t20 4p is pretty good there.)

    I'm sure you could use belt for KJ aswell, as the tank damage is pretty heavy
    Last edited by theburned; 2017-08-10 at 11:47 AM.

  13. #453
    Quote Originally Posted by theburned View Post
    I agree that his statement on outhealing other druids by 20% is absolutely ridiculous.... and based on nothing.

    You also forgot to criticize his legendary choice, which for a rejuv heavy build would favour either helm or velens heavily over prydaz.
    I posted my Name and Realm so that you can check all my fights i have done so far in this instance. 20% is just a guess and can be a lot more in some cases. Even the best druid healers i have encountered on all the random hc grps i joined could only heal barely as much as i have done.

    Here are my logs for the lazy ones :-) https://www.warcraftlogs.com/charact...ra/whitestrife

    Yeah i would love to get the trinket but i dont have it (meh). If I would have it I would take it over any other legendary. Helm is not good. The "30cards random system" is pretty damn shit by any means. But i would try. Myb i guess wrong here. I dont have this one either.


    EDIT: just to point one thing out so that you dont get the feeling I am super cockily. This is just the playstyle which fits my needs the most and is for me easy to perform (just Reju all over the place for the most part).

    Madskillz has made a video about playstyles recently and he is very right with to much viable choices for resto at the moment. Basicly what ever works for you is viable atm. Which can be confusing sometimes.

    Mads Vid: https://youtu.be/WZlT2J36VWI

    I have 913 gs and 890 to 895 t19 and also i have 928 on the bank with t20 2 pieces 940 and one 930. But for me t20 is clunky as fuck and so its by far worse then t19 in most cases.

    I only speak for hc random grps. On mythic thats myb another story. But tbh the 20 men rule for mythic is bs and thats why most players in wow play hc mostly in guild and/or random.

    Also about LB: i checked around 100 fights for me and LBs healing was very low in compareson to Reju. The better my LB uptime was the lower was my overall hps. Thats not true for everyone but i felt more safe with focus on Reju.

    Efflo with a higher uptime was simply not do able for me because with up to 180m Hp healed with Reju and Second Reju on some fights your mana melt like butter. :-)

    And about the Manaregen trinkets. The more mana you have the more heals you will snipe/overheal and the more hps you will generate. As long as you are oom when the boss dies you have done a greatjob. Even with like 70% overheal. So thats why i prefer manaregen over other trinkets (velen ofc is BIS)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Purpleisbetter View Post
    Marginally or not, LB is better then a single Reju, what's the reason to not have it up for 99ish % of the time?

    Btw i had a M+ scenario on mind and i worded poorly the Efflo part.

    His legendary choice is good; he has T19 4pc, shoulders; Velen would be default choice in any scenario, but Prydaz is solid asf. He might not even have Velen's; at that point he made the absolute best choice.

    About the m+ scenario. First off: i tried like 15 times and on +14 i only got into grps with singletarget Dpsler of around 700k. Myb thats the most in m+ myb i got unlucky 15 times but my experience with m+ is ABSOLUTLY horrorbly! Its totally bs to even go in there. I needed to heal roughly 7-10 minutes on every tyrannical boss with a roughly 1m hps the whole time (depending on the bosses). It was extremely hard and if the dps failed they died mostly instantly. 5 Grps disbanded on the last boss and so everything was just loose time. The other grps i didnt get loot. So it was loose time also. The whole 7.2.5 system is just a shit show. I was never liking the timerun but this new system is even worse. I dont get why asmodan likes it.

    So for the m+ setup i run Leggo belt and Wrists. I stick to culti and setup 6 hots on the tank for the whole fight. The rest is basicly like in raids. Tree of Life for emergency heals. Its completly different healing in m+ then in raids and a lot harder.
    Last edited by Whitestrife; 2017-08-11 at 12:22 PM. Reason: Just pointing out

  14. #454
    Quote Originally Posted by theburned View Post
    You can be competitive, might not reach the super top end, but if you dont think so its fairly quick to get the last 2 legendaries, go do portals, all m0s, and raids and you should be able to get 1 in less than a week, you are only missing 2 and velens is by far the most important (and for maiden and FA I believe you can run helm + velens with good results) i run t19 4p + velens/helm for FA and helm + shoulders on maiden (velens would be a good 2nd option, and t20 4p is pretty good there.)

    I'm sure you could use belt for KJ aswell, as the tank damage is pretty heavy
    Yes, Velens is the last one I got 2 weeks ago, RNG was really good with me.. I did portals and pretty much all raids difficulties, usually I get 1 per month anyways.

    Seems really weird to me to drop 930 pieces to equip 905 gear though, of course I understand how good is the T19, but I'm up to try many combo until I finally get one of my last 2 legendaries.

    Speaking of Velens, I usually use it with EoG or Tranq, is that even a good idea?

  15. #455
    Quote Originally Posted by Spotnick View Post
    Yes, Velens is the last one I got 2 weeks ago, RNG was really good with me.. I did portals and pretty much all raids difficulties, usually I get 1 per month anyways.

    Seems really weird to me to drop 930 pieces to equip 905 gear though, of course I understand how good is the T19, but I'm up to try many combo until I finally get one of my last 2 legendaries.

    Speaking of Velens, I usually use it with EoG or Tranq, is that even a good idea?
    You always want to use it with a cooldown, so that you are guaranteed to get some good effect of either the overhealing or the 15% healing increase or ideally a bit of both. Generally this means using it with EoG as it helps hots on most targets soread to all targets while its really good throughput, but not too much like a tranq can be very often. Usage with tranq is generally best where you have mechanics hit a few targets like 4-8 targets, like on elisande (a bit irrelevant now) during the delphuric beams, as there will be heavy damage to a few targets, while some other damage, but mostly youd want your tranq to save those who are low, velens helps all the overhealing focus onto the low hp targets.

  16. #456
    @Whitestrife

    Damn; if you have to use wrist and belt you must run dungeons with horrible tanks

  17. #457
    Quote Originally Posted by Purpleisbetter View Post
    @Whitestrife

    Damn; if you have to use wrist and belt you must run dungeons with horrible tanks
    Myb iam just the unlucky one with very low tanks/dps. Will try tonight again for chest. At least it was challenging.

    Just a tip for my fellow druids for manasafing and to point out how bad Lifebloom is in comparison: if you get any damage over 50% you can press the frenzy regeneration macro (if you have 2 stacks safed up) to instantly generate a lot of hps, heal yourself almost instantly back to full, safe mana in the maintime and safe yourself from dieing. If you heal this way on cd frenzy can go up to rank 4 in healing and i guess in mythic there are a lot of uses for close to cd-usage. On heroic ofc its only rank 8-5 but atleast a lot more then lifebloom and also extremly easy to use with the 1 button macro for going into bear and get 2 stacks of frenzy by spamming the key. (you can instantly find it in the web. I dont have it now because i am not at home right now.)

    I know zero druids that use frenzy as a actual healing tool. I guess if i spread the advice now it will get nerfed soon so sssssssssh :-)

    the macro is in german so just change it to your language:

    #showtooltip Rasende Regeneration
    /cast [stance: 0/2/3/4/5/6] Bärengestalt
    /cast Rasende Regeneration

    just spam this key (2-3 times or so) when you get atleast 50% of your hp dmg to get enough rage for both stacks, also remember that mastery counts for frenzy and does a hell lot of hps if you know when dmg will come (KJ HC last phase the first explosion etc).
    Last edited by Whitestrife; 2017-08-15 at 05:59 PM. Reason: macro code

  18. #458
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    So lifebloom is bad because when you take sufficient damage to warrant using frenzied regen is does more healing than it? Eh?

  19. #459
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypasonic View Post
    So lifebloom is bad because when you take sufficient damage to warrant using frenzied regen is does more healing than it? Eh?
    Myb there is zero reason to compare this 2 heals. You are right. They do ultimately different jobs. Maybe its just me but LB is today only for Mastery-Stacks on someone. Thats it. Its healing is meaningless. Not even worth the gcd. Its only good if you have a good amount of mastery and stack a lot of hots to also apply LB on the target to push the other heals a little more. LB on its own ist just a mess in its current state. Dont get me wrong. Its just LB comes from a very different state and not years ago (in wotlk you could apply it like Reju on all targets). In Warlords of Draenor on the last Tier it was very strong in the end. On most cases our secondbest heal. But overall LB goes near to meaningless over time. And thats just bad design. If we wouldnt benefit from mastery i would not use it at all to be honest. Its like HT in a very shitty spot. Resto has gotten the least changes in this whole expansion out of all classes. Sure we have very strong heals and we dont need adjustment to nerf or buff us. But we get very clunky these days and need some basic changes to get a little more "meaningfull healing". We just plant all our hots on cd and press Cooldowns when the grp gets damage. We can safe one target "maybe" with Swiftment. Myb it heals for nothing and the target dies. Both cases are happening all the time. Besides that we can just watch when a target gets damage and its not the tank. We also can Regrowth it but that heals for like nothing if there is only one hot or no hot at all at the target. So we plant our hots over the raid and hope for the best. Also we use a variety of items from 890 to 945 because they are all even in healing. What? Blizzard? Are you sleeping? There is a lot of work to do to get Resto back into the boat of Blizzards own little goals. But they dont do anything and thats just pissing me off.

  20. #460
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitestrife View Post
    Myb there is zero reason to compare this 2 heals. You are right. They do ultimately different jobs. Maybe its just me but LB is today only for Mastery-Stacks on someone. Thats it. Its healing is meaningless. Not even worth the gcd. Its only good if you have a good amount of mastery and stack a lot of hots to also apply LB on the target to push the other heals a little more. LB on its own ist just a mess in its current state. Dont get me wrong. Its just LB comes from a very different state and not years ago (in wotlk you could apply it like Reju on all targets). In Warlords of Draenor on the last Tier it was very strong in the end. On most cases our secondbest heal. But overall LB goes near to meaningless over time. And thats just bad design. If we wouldnt benefit from mastery i would not use it at all to be honest. Its like HT in a very shitty spot. Resto has gotten the least changes in this whole expansion out of all classes. Sure we have very strong heals and we dont need adjustment to nerf or buff us. But we get very clunky these days and need some basic changes to get a little more "meaningfull healing". We just plant all our hots on cd and press Cooldowns when the grp gets damage. We can safe one target "maybe" with Swiftment. Myb it heals for nothing and the target dies. Both cases are happening all the time. Besides that we can just watch when a target gets damage and its not the tank. We also can Regrowth it but that heals for like nothing if there is only one hot or no hot at all at the target. So we plant our hots over the raid and hope for the best. Also we use a variety of items from 890 to 945 because they are all even in healing. What? Blizzard? Are you sleeping? There is a lot of work to do to get Resto back into the boat of Blizzards own little goals. But they dont do anything and thats just pissing me off.
    Everything you say regarding Lifebloom disagrees with the viewpoints of 99% of the resto druid community and theorycrafters/sims. Stop spreading misinformation. We get that you do not like using Lifebloom, you can stop trying to justify your mistake to us.

    Also, if you don't notice a difference in your healing going from 890ilvl to 945 ilvl then i'm not sure what to tell you. People who are wearing lower ilvl T19 4-set should be switching out to T-20 when they have ~15-20 ilvl upgrade in each slot, and preferably have 2 TF T19 pieces that they can use to get the T19 2 set bonus.
    Leafcast - <Something Pretentious> Proudmoore

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