8/28 BiS List Frost + UH with Trinket Section. All sources

[gixxpunk]

Can anyone explain me where the math of this 15% difference comes from? I am aware that frost is in a weaker position but 15% is beyond the range blizzard generally allows, is this obtained by merely adding up the highest stat pieces and taking the difference?

Unfinished/untuned simcraft. I did a few runs with yesterdays nightly build and the built in T19 profiles in patchwork style. Just by changing some of the talents to the ones I currently use at live, frost dps bumped to 213k. When I look into this sheet and see max. values for frost peaking at 205k...

Also I had a look at Warcraft Logs BETA. There are not much frost DKs running around, but I found a very interesting log: tinyurl.com/h7duoc4
It's a bit older, so razorize fix is missing, but according to this forum this simply should not be possible.

[Piz813]

Unfinished/untuned simcraft. I did a few runs with yesterdays nightly build and the built in T19 profiles in patchwork style. Just by changing some of the talents to the ones I currently use at live, frost dps bumped to 213k. When I look into this sheet and see max. values for frost peaking at 205k...

Also I had a look at Warcraft Logs BETA. There are not much frost DKs running around, but I found a very interesting log: tinyurl.com/h7duoc4
It's a bit older, so razorize fix is missing, but according to this forum this simply should not be possible.

Frost does decent. The doc was put here for people to focus on the trinkets

[Dracovian]

Can anyone explain me where the math of this 15% difference comes from? I am aware that frost is in a weaker position but 15% is beyond the range blizzard generally allows, is this obtained by merely adding up the highest stat pieces and taking the difference?

Sims done by some of the best players. Frost is the worst dps spec in every sim, on every discord for every class. That's can't be a coincidence and it shows you it's not a bias against Frost. It performs the lowest for everyone. Take into account that's patchwerk. Imagine how badly it performs when there's heavy movement involved or burst is needed.

[Gemini Soul]

Unfinished/untuned simcraft. I did a few runs with yesterdays nightly build and the built in T19 profiles in patchwork style. Just by changing some of the talents to the ones I currently use at live, frost dps bumped to 213k. When I look into this sheet and see max. values for frost peaking at 205k...

Also I had a look at Warcraft Logs BETA. There are not much frost DKs running around, but I found a very interesting log: tinyurl.com/h7duoc4
It's a bit older, so razorize fix is missing, but according to this forum this simply should not be possible.

That's a trinket comparison, so IIRC its Ran with 0 trinkets equipped for a base number, then only 1 trinket is equipped which is the one being compared and that is done for all them. You ran yours with 2 trinkets while the comparisons only ever had 1 equipped at a time.

[Freedom]

Sims done by some of the best players. Frost is the worst dps spec in every sim, on every discord for every class. That's can't be a coincidence and it shows you it's not a bias against Frost. It performs the lowest for everyone. Take into account that's patchwerk. Imagine how badly it performs when there's heavy movement involved or burst is needed.

If it truly is the worst, given they used an example of Fire vs other mage specs at 15% difference changing to 5% difference, I expect that Blizzard will re tune it. Either that or prove all their proclamations about balance and bringing specs within a class closer to be lipservice.

[Gemini Soul]

If it truly is the worst, given they used an example of Fire vs other mage specs at 15% difference changing to 5% difference, I expect that Blizzard will re tune it. Either that or prove all their proclamations about balance and bringing specs within a class closer to be lipservice.

Hopefully they push out some changes today before it goes live.

[gixxpunk]

That's a trinket comparison, so IIRC its Ran with 0 trinkets equipped for a base number, then only 1 trinket is equipped which is the one being compared and that is done for all them. You ran yours with 2 trinkets while the comparisons only ever had 1 equipped at a time.

Doesn't change the fact that all those sims are currently based on suboptimal chosen talents and hence show wrong numbers. 3330021 is not the best talent spec for frost atm.

[Gemini Soul]

Doesn't change the fact that all those sims are currently based on suboptimal chosen talents and hence show wrong numbers. 3330021 is not the best talent spec for frost atm.

How do you know what talents were taken, its a gear spreadsheet with trinket ranking results. It's also for 110 and not "atm"

[gixxpunk]

Go check simc sourcecode for legion (legion-dev branch) and have a look into premade chars used to do the 110 sims. In short - this talents are taken: github.com/simulationcraft/simc/blob/legion-dev/profiles/Tier19P/Death_Knight_Frost_T19P.simc

You need to c&p manually as I'm not yet allowed to post full urls... and "atm" is 110, as no one gives a shit about current live sims.

[Piz813]

Yes the top DK s in the world all say no to frost for raiding.
Consider this~ icy veins and wowhead both put out guides today that are up to date for legion. Meaning today 8/30. All say frosts only strength is short burst cleave. So in mythic + wouldn't trash be considered short burst? Kill packs faster then you have more time for more chests and bosses. Yeah frost will fall behind there but get there faster right? So a person set on frost "can" do well pre raiding essentially. Scythe trash and move on. Pillars will be up almost every pack.
It won't be horrible but it won't be amazing either. Just set loot to UH

[Nemesquish]

Yes the top DK s in the world all say no to frost for raiding.
Consider this~ icy veins and wowhead both put out guides today that are up to date for legion. Meaning today 8/30. All say frosts only strength is short burst cleave. So in mythic + wouldn't trash be considered short burst? Kill packs faster then you have more time for more chests and bosses. Yeah frost will fall behind there but get there faster right? So a person set on frost "can" do well pre raiding essentially. Scythe trash and move on. Pillars will be up almost every pack.
It won't be horrible but it won't be amazing either. Just set loot to UH

Frost is fine for raiding, Just because 95% of the population can't play it well, doesn't mean it isn't viable.

People in my guild are making FROST dk alts, due to how some stuff will be cheeseable with Sindragosa.

I'm not saying Unholy wont be slightly ahead...But to say frost has no place is pretty silly.

[Baddok21]

Yes the top DK s in the world all say no to frost for raiding.
Consider this~ icy veins and wowhead both put out guides today that are up to date for legion. Meaning today 8/30. All say frosts only strength is short burst cleave. So in mythic + wouldn't trash be considered short burst? Kill packs faster then you have more time for more chests and bosses. Yeah frost will fall behind there but get there faster right? So a person set on frost "can" do well pre raiding essentially. Scythe trash and move on. Pillars will be up almost every pack.
It won't be horrible but it won't be amazing either. Just set loot to UH

Frost STRENGTH is burst cleave, That does not make Unholy WEAK in burst cleave.

I think Demon Hunters are hands down the best Burst cleave for melee DPS Frost and Unholy are 3rd and 4th respectively.

I cant imagine Frost not getting some love before the Raid lockout open, that would be some pretty cruel bias by blizz to leave frost in its current state.

[0verdose]

Frost is fine for raiding, Just because 95% of the population can't play it well, doesn't mean it isn't viable.

People in my guild are making FROST dk alts, due to how some stuff will be cheeseable with Sindragosa.

I'm not saying Unholy wont be slightly ahead...But to say frost has no place is pretty silly.

Personally I think that it's unfair that frost is so behind unholy right now but you just seem to be in denial my friend. Frost is confirmed to be weaker than unholy but you're saying that 95% of the dk community doesn't know how to play frost "right." I'm sticking to unholy but I wouldn't be mad if frost got buffed to be more in line with unholy atm. The only thing I don't want is unholy to get nerfed to get in line with frost while not even changing frost at all. All that does to us is make us weaker as a whole. Dk community should be united and stop bickering amongst ourselves...