Simulationcraft results for Legion Expansion (7.0)

[ymirsson]

I think these sims hurt outlaw spec the most in making it appear so high in damage when in reality you can be 5 retries in roll of the bones while everyone else is 5 rotations into the fight and still rerolling for buffs.

You don't know how simulations work, do you?

[ehxy]

You don't know how simulations work, do you?

Let me re-word that for you as an actual functioning adult that works with people everyday would say it and communicates without an overblown ego.

"The simulations used here actually uses an algorithm that takes into account the chance of rolling of the bones mechanic has not using the 'best best possible buffs at all times'."

Grow a pair.

[Skasch]

The Action Priority List tries to cover as much situations as possible (which is why it is so hard to make). I spent quite some time working on it, and I tried a lot of various situations both I thought about and suggested by others.

Now, for this specific situation: it IS the best course of action (as in, DPS-wise) you can have to continue rolling the bones even if you had bad rolls for the first 5 rolls.

In addition, simulations gives you an average: over multiple pulls, the average DPS you will pull out will reflect the results of simc (if the fight style is comparable of course).

Oh, and also, simc and the APL are regularly evolving. If you find something weird, don't hesitate to ping Aethys or myself!

[ymirsson]

Let me re-word that for you as an actual functioning adult that works with people everyday would say it and communicates without an overblown ego.

"The simulations used here actually uses an algorithm that takes into account the chance of rolling of the bones mechanic has not using the 'best best possible buffs at all times'."

Grow a pair.

You REALLY don't know how it works, eh?
visit simulationcraft.org and read up on their wiki, they have it all explained.

[ehxy]

The Action Priority List tries to cover as much situations as possible (which is why it is so hard to make). I spent quite some time working on it, and I tried a lot of various situations both I thought about and suggested by others.

Now, for this specific situation: it IS the best course of action (as in, DPS-wise) you can have to continue rolling the bones even if you had bad rolls for the first 5 rolls.

In addition, simulations gives you an average: over multiple pulls, the average DPS you will pull out will reflect the results of simc (if the fight style is comparable of course).

Oh, and also, simc and the APL are regularly evolving. If you find something weird, don't hesitate to ping Aethys or myself!

Thanks I was under the assumption that while using best in slot gear they also used best possible situation. Really, so much more informative than that other chap who really has a small gland problem to be such a douche bag!

[ymirsson]

Thanks I was under the assumption that while using best in slot gear they also used best possible situation. Really, so much more informative than that other chap who really has a small gland problem to be such a douche bag!

You can't be bothered to inform yourself and call other people douche bags for questioning your faulty assumptions?

[Aethys256]

New Fishing Rule :

You should cast again Roll the Bones if you have 1 or less Buffs and this buff isn't Shark Infested Waters while your CDs (AR/CotD) are ongoing and this buff isn't True Bearing.

So, if you have 2 or more buffs, keep it.
If you have only 1 buff, check :
- If it's Shark Infested Waters or True Bearing, if it's True Bearing, keep it
- If it's Shark Infested Waters and you have either Adrenaline Rush either Curse of the Dreadblades up, keep it, else reroll.

Also, if you're in a stage not very demanding in terms of dps output, you should be aware that fishing for either 3+ either 2+ with at least TB or SIW being one of the two is something good. The ramp up time is longer but the burst is higher (and overall, it's better if you're not against rerolling some times).

[Deleted]

New Fishing Rule :

You should cast again Roll the Bones if you have 1 or less Buffs and this buff isn't Shark Infested Waters while your CDs (AR/CotD) are ongoing and this buff isn't True Bearing.

So, if you have 2 or more buffs, keep it.
If you have only 1 buff, check :
- If it's Shark Infested Waters or True Bearing, if it's True Bearing, keep it
- If it's Shark Infested Waters and you have either Adrenaline Rush either Curse of the Dreadblades up, keep it, else reroll.

Also, if you're in a stage not very demanding in terms of dps output, you should be aware that fishing for either 3+ either 2+ with at least TB or SIW being one of the two is something good. The ramp up time is longer but the burst is higher (and overall, it's better if you're not against rerolling some times).

Im assuming that we are still fishing if we get TB when all cooldowns are ready?

Also, is there any specific abilities we want to have on cooldown to keep the solo TB rolls, or do we keep it if any of the dps abilities are on cooldown?

[Lougarou]

You can't be bothered to inform yourself and call other people douche bags for questioning your faulty assumptions?

Just stop. Your elitist 12-year-old mentality is not appreciated and adds zero to the conversation.

[ymirsson]

Just stop. Your elitist 12-year-old mentality is not appreciated and adds zero to the conversation.

People asking stupid questions and demanding spoonfeeding add nothing to humanity in general, is there a specific reason why you don't try to patronize those?

[Aethys256]

Yes, as soon as TB is in, keep it no matter what.

[Getrow]

New Fishing Rule :

You should cast again Roll the Bones if you have 1 or less Buffs and this buff isn't Shark Infested Waters while your CDs (AR/CotD) are ongoing and this buff isn't True Bearing.

Do we have the a new APL to reflect this that we can use in simc? I was trying to take a crack at it and have failed miserably. Would rather wait for a more experienced person to iron it out.

[Aethys256]

Yes, everything is already on SimC Github.

[Tyrgannus]

My heart's telling me to go for Assassination (I love the class fantasy). I also want to raid. Am I screwed?

No, don't believe the hype. Unless you're doing Mythics with an under geared group, spec changing isn't mandatory despite what everyone will tell you. Beneficial perhaps, but by no means mandatory. Time and again I've seen great guilds have DPS that weren't in conventional specs put up big numbers.

[Getrow]

Yes, everything is already on SimC Github.

Sweet, thank you for the fast updates. However, I have a question for you about your latest change. When I downloaded the latest SIMC it had your new updated APL and my theoretical DPS dropped about 30k~ or so. I figured this was mostly unrelated as there were many other changes.

What really confused me was that when I changed out this line of the APL (new RtB logic):
actions=variable,name=rtb_reroll,value=!talent.slice_and_dice.enabled&(rtb_buffs<=1&!rtb_l ist.any.6&((!buff.curse_of_the_dreadblades.up&!buff.adrenaline_rush.up)|!rtb_list.any.5))

with the old APL's RtB logic:
actions=variable,name=rtb_reroll,value=((!talent.slice_and_dice.enabled)&(rtb_buffs<=1&!(e quipped.thraxis_tricksy_treads&buff.true_bearing.up)))

I went up about 1k~ or so dps. So the old RtB logic actually is better than the new RtB logic? Note this is with my characters current gear (848 ilvl mythic/WQ gear and no legendaries).

[Notter]

Im assuming that we are still fishing if we get TB when all cooldowns are ready?

no, because if you have TB, you use all your cooldowns with TB active, for a massive reduction of your next Adrenaline Rush / MfD

[Aethys256]

Sweet, thank you for the fast updates. However, I have a question for you about your latest change. When I downloaded the latest SIMC it had your new updated APL and my theoretical DPS dropped about 30k~ or so. I figured this was mostly unrelated as there were many other changes.

What really confused me was that when I changed out this line of the APL (new RtB logic):
actions=variable,name=rtb_reroll,value=!talent.slice_and_dice.enabled&(rtb_buffs<=1&!rtb_l ist.any.6&((!buff.curse_of_the_dreadblades.up&!buff.adrenaline_rush.up)|!rtb_list.any.5))

with the old APL's RtB logic:
actions=variable,name=rtb_reroll,value=((!talent.slice_and_dice.enabled)&(rtb_buffs<=1&!(e quipped.thraxis_tricksy_treads&buff.true_bearing.up)))

I went up about 1k~ or so dps. So the old RtB logic actually is better than the new RtB logic? Note this is with my characters current gear (848 ilvl mythic/WQ gear and no legendaries).

The same way that Fishing for 3+ / 2+ TB / 2+ SIW is a DPS gain.
Basically, it increases a lot the variance but the overall gain show a dps increase.
But in game, this situation make most of the time things harder.

TL;DR : If you want best SimC DPS, put this line :

actions=variable,name=rtb_reroll,value=!talent.slice_and_dice.enabled&(rtb_buffs<=1|rtb_bu ffs=2&!rtb_list.any.56)

If you want the best practical way to handle RtB ingame, let the current default.


Outlaw is very special due to RtB, dps gain on SimC doesn't means dps gain in-game. Well, yes in the same context, but this context is the most fucked things Blizzard created.
Read again my previous post about the 3+ thing, that exactly the same situation.

Also, if you want an improved version than previous default, use this one :

actions=variable,name=rtb_reroll,value=!talent.slice_and_dice.enabled&rtb_buffs<=1&!rtb_li st.any.6

Adding SIW reduce the variance while almost not loosing DPS (on SimC), resulting in better DPS ingame.

[Kazzai]

I was a massive advocate for outlaw but now im second guessing myself about assassination after a couple mythic dungeons. Trash packs its pretty lame no doubt, but on ST bosses with some adds it really shines. I feel like its been left in the dark after outlaw was named king but with some proper theorycrafting and artifact spending it has some serious potential, as well as consistency over outlaw.

What that other guy said (in a douchey manner) vendetta boots and 3x vendetta relics with stacked mastery lining up with kingsbane sounds incredible.
Plus all 3 muts golden traits look potent as opposed to outlaws greed and other 2 so-so traits.

Just thinking aloud though really

[Tyrgannus]

I was a massive advocate for outlaw but now im second guessing myself about assassination after a couple mythic dungeons. Trash packs its pretty lame no doubt, but on ST bosses with some adds it really shines. I feel like its been left in the dark after outlaw was named king but with some proper theorycrafting and artifact spending it has some serious potential, as well as consistency over outlaw.

What that other guy said (in a douchey manner) vendetta boots and 3x vendetta relics with stacked mastery lining up with kingsbane sounds incredible.
Plus all 3 muts golden traits look potent as opposed to outlaws greed and other 2 so-so traits.

Just thinking aloud though really

Also, Kingsbane (or whatever the Kingslayer artifact move is called) will generate a combo point in 7.1 which will further strengthen Assassination. I feel that Outlaw is clearly better on Multi mob fights which obviously includes trash, but I'll probably do assassination on many 1 or 2 target fights

[MagikMurlok]

Sorry if this is completely idiotic. But what do the talent numbers mean? They aren't spell IDs and can't for the life of me figure out what it means?